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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

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recedite

robinph wrote: »

Which licence would that be then? There is no licence required to purchase or carry guns in Florida, unless it is concealed. It is also apparently illegal for anyone to keep a list of who even has a gun?!?!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

I stand corrected about the licence. Its a very laid back regime in Florida. Presumably they could still have confiscated the guns though, after the tip-offs.

aloyisious

The Governor of Florida might have to back off from his call for Chris Wray, the FBI Director, to resign. It seem's the Florida Department of Children and Families [DCF] were aware as far back as Aug 2016 of Mr Cruz stating he plans to go out and buy a gun. The FBI was not the only law agency informed about Cruz. Broward County sheriff stated that his agency had received more than 20 calls about Cruz in the past few years. Broward County is the agency holding Mr Cruz in custody.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/child-welfare-agency-investigated-florida-school-shooting-suspect-828586.html

jooksavage

recedite wrote: »

I stand corrected about the licence. Its a very laid back regime in Florida. Presumably they could still have confiscated the guns though, after the tip-offs.

It's a bit rich to expect authorities to be soley responsible for preventing acts of terror like this by confiscating the guns AFTER they've been purchased. Making sure they never get into yhe wrong hands in the first place wouldnt make more sense?

Responding to tip-offs? How about being on an official terror watch list? How about that for a tip-off? Senatorial Republicans see no compatabiltiy issues when it comes to terror suspects buying high powered rifles. That's not "laid back", that's wanton dereliction of responsibility.

Igotadose

recedite wrote: »

I stand corrected about the licence. Its a very laid back regime in Florida. Presumably they could still have confiscated the guns though, after the tip-offs.

Sorry, you're wrong yet again. Here's the ATF's statement:
"On Thursday morning, the A.T.F. agent in charge of South Florida said at a news conference that Cruz had legally purchased the AR-15 assault-style rifle used in the shooting. Federal gun laws only bar people from buying guns under very specific criteria, such as felony convictions, domestic-violence misdemeanors, dishonorable discharge from the military, and other disqualifiers. When it comes to mental health, only people who have been involuntarily committed––a relatively high bar––are banned from buying guns under federal law."
---

So, tip-offs? Good luck with that. The NRA would be flying lawyers in to defend this kids right to purchase weapons had he been prevented by comments from neighbors & a facebook posting.

And, lest we forget, the killer that shot up the church in Texas had a dishonorable military discharge that wasn't in the database, so he could purchase the firearms he used to kill 26 people and wound 20 others. Oopsie, bad government, failed to tick a box in a computer somewhere.

This is the gift of the 2d amendment. States can do whatever they want, including nothing, which is what the NRA wants.

jaykay74

Pretty sick and ugly stuff from Trump. To try and turn a school shooting where 17 people are murdered back to serving his own interest. The worst thing is that its not shocking, its whats normal now.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/965075589274177536

Professor Moriarty

jaykay74 wrote: »

Pretty sick and ugly stuff from Trump. To try and turn a school shooting where 17 people are murdered back to serving his own interest. The worst thing is that its not shocking, its whats normal now.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/965075589274177536

The drip drip effect of these tweets will erode support further. He's oblivious to the fact that his narcissistic lack of sensitivity shines through every tweet.

Leroy42

Wow, even for Trump that is a new low.

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the FBI (and IMO it is a contributory factor at most) to try to use this time, when he should be focused on the victims families and the wider society, to try to weasel out of a now full blown investigation is staggering.

everlast75

jaykay74 wrote: »

Pretty sick and ugly stuff from Trump. To try and turn a school shooting where 17 people are murdered back to serving his own interest. The worst thing is that its not shocking, its whats normal now.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/965075589274177536

I read that this morning.

My first thought was "Jesus ****ing Christ- he's a ****ing *****"

My second thought was - "he must really be feeling the pressure. Great stuff!!"

alchemist33

Igotadose wrote: »

Sorry, you're wrong yet again. Here's the ATF's statement:
"On Thursday morning, the A.T.F. agent in charge of South Florida said at a news conference that Cruz had legally purchased the AR-15 assault-style rifle used in the shooting. Federal gun laws only bar people from buying guns under very specific criteria, such as felony convictions, domestic-violence misdemeanors, dishonorable discharge from the military, and other disqualifiers. When it comes to mental health, only people who have been involuntarily committed––a relatively high bar––are banned from buying guns under federal law."

There's the problem with America's gun laws. In most countries the bar is set high to get high powered weapons. In the US the bar is set high to NOT get a gun. If you started from a different point - that gun ownership is a privilege, not a right - and to get a gun you have to PROVE you're fit to do so, there would be fewer guns.

But the horse has bolted on that one and Trump is not the one to solve the issue.

listermint

That trump tweet is both shocking and not shocking in equal measure. Between this and support for paedophiles how anyone can be proud of the American political machine is beyond me

Leroy42

So Mueller released the indictments on Friday. Still nothing from the POTUS or the WH in regard to the attack on American democracy by one of the main global threats.

Pence, McMaster have both come out and stated that it is clear that Russia tried to interfere. And POTUS has nothing to say on that. And it seems nobody is even demanding that he say anything.

He should be holding an address to the US people to condemn this attack by Russia and outline the steps he is taking to both ensure that it cannot happen again (the 2018 mid terms are fast approaching and most observes accept that Russia will try to interfere again) and what sanctions/actions he will take in order to punish Russia for this.

It is staggering to me at least, that a country that prides itself on its power and might in the world is apparently happy to accept that it is powerless to do anything about this, and is not even asking its leader to try.

Water John

You may have missed this tweet;

General McMaster forgot to say that the results of the 2016 election were not impacted or changed by the Russians and that the only Collusion was between Russia and Crooked H, the DNC and the Dems. Remember the Dirty Dossier, Uranium, Speeches, Emails and the Podesta Company!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-mcmaster-russia-indictments-1.4541021

Leroy42

And still fails to address the elephant in the room.

He is accepting that interference happened, his only argument is that it wasn't him.

But regardless of that, his country was attacked by a foreign power and he is doing and saying nothing about it.

So far all he has done is taken Putin's word over his own experts.

Why does he seem so untroubled by the clear evidence that American democracy is under attack?

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

You may have missed this tweet;

General McMaster forgot to say that the results of the 2016 election were not impacted or changed by the Russians and that the only Collusion was between Russia and Crooked H, the DNC and the Dems. Remember the Dirty Dossier, Uranium, Speeches, Emails and the Podesta Company!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-mcmaster-russia-indictments-1.4541021

It's pathetic. If I was an American citizen, I'd be deeply embarrassed.

listermint

Just watched fox news on the president's tweet. My head melted . My brains literally drained out of my ears. These people are disgusting individuals

jooksavage

Those latest comments just go to show that is actually worse at being a human than he is at being president, and that's saying something.

david75

Im stunned at how he keeps finding new lows. Is he that disconnected from reality or is there a point to it? We all get more and more desensitised as we go but his base seem to be lapping it up. Or are they?
Either way he’s more and more appalling as he goes

PropJoe10

Absolutely disgusting from Trump. I think this might actually be the worst thing he's said over the past year, and that's saying something. What an insensitive, narcissistic piece of ****.

Leroy42

Is there a point to it? Yes. The point is that nothing else matters as much as he does. Nothing is as important as himself, and his feelings.

The point is to continue to try to discredit and investigation in the hope that IF it every does come up with anything that he can call on his supporters to call it fake news.

The man cites "No Collusion" when we already know that he son, son-in-law, and campaign chief already tried to collude. The only defense they have come up with, after the initial lies were debunked was that both Kushner and Manafort walked out of the meeting (although never brought it to the attention of the FBI) and the Trump Jr is somewhat naive and a bit simple really. And thats it.

There is one common theme in everything this man does, and that theme is Trump. Even look at the pictures of him visiting the hospital the other day for those caught up in the school shooting. A thumps up! A mean for what? That isn't it a spectacular success that only 17 people died? Or is he giving a thumps up to the medical service, which in many cases will be paid for by plans taken out under Obamacare?

Or is it, that he is saying what a great job he has done and how lucky all these people are to meet him?

pixelburp

Leroy42 wrote: »

[...]

Or is it, that he is saying what a great job he has done and how lucky all these people are to meet him?

I think it's exactly this: it's worth noting that back in January, while giving a speech to farmers, he made these exact remarks. ..

"Oh, are you happy you voted for me," President Trump said as farmers applauded him. "You are so lucky that I gave you that privilege."

I'd say the mask slipped there, but as we know it's debatable the mask is ever even on at this point; the above line really does underscore that YES, he really does believe he's above us all and that visiting that hospital would have been an honour for those doctors and nurses in his mind...

Christy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Is there a point to it? Yes. The point is that nothing else matters as much as he does. Nothing is as important as himself, and his feelings.

The point is to continue to try to discredit and investigation in the hope that IF it every does come up with anything that he can call on his supporters to call it fake news.

The man cites "No Collusion" when we already know that he son, son-in-law, and campaign chief already tried to collude. The only defense they have come up with, after the initial lies were debunked was that both Kushner and Manafort walked out of the meeting (although never brought it to the attention of the FBI) and the Trump Jr is somewhat naive and a bit simple really. And thats it.

There is one common theme in everything this man does, and that theme is Trump. Even look at the pictures of him visiting the hospital the other day for those caught up in the school shooting. A thumps up! A mean for what? That isn't it a spectacular success that only 17 people died? Or is he giving a thumps up to the medical service, which in many cases will be paid for by plans taken out under Obamacare?

Or is it, that he is saying what a great job he has done and how lucky all these people are to meet him?

Has anyone said what the FBI could have done under the law at this point? He had committed no crime that I can see before the massacre. Was he danger, yes absolutely but I see no way they could respond to that and remove his gun or his right to purchase a new gun.

However Trunk blames the FBI to reduce the trust further into Mueller's investigation. To remove trust in anything that us not him.

Leroy42

Christy42 wrote: »

Has anyone said what the FBI could have done under the law at this point? He had committed no crime that I can see before the massacre. Was he danger, yes absolutely but I see no way they could respond to that and remove his gun or his right to purchase a new gun.

Not that I have seen, it seems to be based purely on something must be to blame, it can't be the availability of guns, so lets blame someone somewhere for not doing something.

Can you imagine if the FBI had turned up to this kids house to search and remove his guns? The NRA, Fox News, Trump would have gone mental. "Typical PC Rubbish", "Taking away the 2nd Amendment bit by bit".

He met none of the criteria to stop him getting the gun (hence he was legally able to buy it). It is a smokescreen to avoid having to deal with the real issue.

Christy42 wrote: »

However Trunk blames the FBI to reduce the trust further into Mueller's investigation. To remove trust in anything that us not him.

That is exactly it. As if the local FBI office in Florida has anything to do with the Mueller investigation. But he is trying to paint the picture of an FBI focused solely on him with the result of doing nothing else. It another shameful attack on the FBI by POTUS

Water John

BTW, where's Rubio in all this? Didn't he get one of the highest donations from the NRA?
Each State should start implementing strong gun laws. As much as they can get away with, under the Constitution.

Brian?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The drip drip effect of these tweets will erode support further. He's oblivious to the fact that his narcissistic lack of sensitivity shines through every tweet.

The sad thing, to me, is it won't erode his support. It'll harden his already fanatical support.

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

BTW, where's Rubio in all this? Didn't he get one of the highest donations from the NRA?
Each State should start implementing strong gun laws. As much as they can get away with, under the Constitution.

The Trump campaign got $30 million from the NRA. Not that such a donation would influence The Donald in any way.

Professor Moriarty

Brian? wrote: »

The sad thing, to me, is it won't erode his support. It'll harden his already fanatical support.

His fanatical support will vote for him no matter what he does. Personally, I would put that at about 30%. It's the relatively centrist/floating people that will continue to turn away from him. If the Dems address the reasons why people voted for Trump and put forward credible candidates then Trump will become a toxic hot potato for the GOP.

david75

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

His fanatical support will vote for him no matter what he does. Personally, I would put that at about 30%. It's the relatively centrist/floating people that will continue to turn away from him. If the Dems address the reasons why people voted for Trump and put forward credible candidates then Trump will become a toxic hot potato for the GOP.

He’s become that and they’ve had a few opportunities to tackle it and either haven’t the balls or it suits them.

Water John

Similar to the hard core Brexiteers. If limited to their core hard support, they become irrevelent. That's why appealing to the middle ground is important.

Professor Moriarty

david75 wrote: »

He’s become that and they’ve had a few opportunities to tackle it and either haven’t the balls or it suits them.

The mid terms will tell a lot. To date, taking him on would do more damage than letting him continue being a bull in a china shop.

Brian?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

His fanatical support will vote for him no matter what he does. Personally, I would put that at about 30%. It's the relatively centrist/floating people that will continue to turn away from him. If the Dems address the reasons why people voted for Trump and put forward credible candidates then Trump will become a toxic hot potato for the GOP.

Logically you should be right. Lest we forget, he lost the popular vote and won 3 swing states by less than 100k votes to win the election. He only really needs to keep doing what he's doing to do the same again. He mobilised the angry white man's vote with crap like this.