Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » Are population numbers suddenly dwindling?
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » If they are so wealthy they can travel to get an abortion! Its the ones who are impoverished and struggling who need access to abortion facilities along with better education and access to contraceptive products.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » Because they cannot affird to have an abirtion, NOT because they want to have another mouth to feed!
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » Jaysus you must have led a very sheltered life JC, people have been having 1 night stands many many years this isnt a new thing you know! Something makes me think that you see sex as a dirty act and only to be used for procreation.
J C wrote: » The main reason ... possibly the only reason, actually, that contraceptives fail, is because the sex is being conducted under less than ideal circumstances ... with participants drunk, for example ... they won't know or possibly care what they are doing. Sex with a randomer is much more likely to result in condom breakage ... and a 'pump and dump' result for the woman involved ... or possibly the man ... but, at least, he isn't also running the risk of becoming pregnant. This grossly irresponsible carry-on isn't at all rare. Having drunken sex with randomers, for example ... is most likely to end in disaster ... and its quite common out there, with 30% of 'twenty something' women admitting that they had sex with a stranger, while drunk ... this is the % of women who admit to this behaviour ... so the actual percentage is likely to be significantly higher.77% of women regret a one night stand ... which means that the figure is much higher for the total percentage who have had one-night stands (when you include the women who don't regret the practice. ... and then they expect people to vote to allow them abort their irresponsibly conceived children. Quote:-. "72% said they regret at least one person they dated while 77% wished they'd never had a one-night stand 30% said they were ashamed to admit they'd slept with a stranger when drunk."http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2273255/Drunken-sex-strangers-flaky-friends-savings-The-regrets-20-women-laid-bare.html These are English figures ... but there is no reason to believe that Irish 'comely maidens' and their sex partners, don't match or even exceed these figures.
pilly wrote: » Continue on JC, you're doing a great job at convincing people to repeal. The hatred for women is just dripping off your posts.
Katie Full Leak wrote: » You still haven't given your opinion. And by the way..I was the one who asked the question...but you didn't read that bit. What would you suggest be done? Lock up all women of child bearing age in case they are pregnant and want to abort their child in another country! We are responsible for what we can do not for what we can't. As for abortion not being the killing of an unborn human being..what is it? The killing of an orange?
pilly wrote: » Addressing what points exactly Bob? That people have one night stands? Absolutely nothing to do with the 8th unless you're purpose is to stop people having joyful sex?
pilly wrote: » That richer women have abortions? Newsflash, also nothing to do with the 8th because they will continue to do so regardless. Unless the purpose of retaining the 8th is to stop the poor?
Delirium wrote: » Countries have laws that outlaw travelling to another country to have sex with a minor. So it's to quite possible to legislate for crimes citizens commit in other countries.
J C wrote: » This is a very important point, given that the prime movers, in the pro-abortion debate are wealthy women and their partners ... who are using the image of 'poor' women to achieve abortion on demand ... when the wealthy women themselves have four time the rate of abortion of their poorer sisters.
Let them be honest, and just say that they (and their partners) want abortion on demand for themselves because going through with a pregnancy, often conceived by gross irresponsibility, in the first place, would impact on their cherished lifestyle ... because they are 'too posh to be pregnant' ... and they selfishly leave producing the next generation, largely to their poorer sisters, anyway.
J C wrote: » It is legally difficult to prosecute crimes that occur in other countries ... but, assisting third countries with punishing perverts who travel to those countries to commit crimes in those countries, is legally permissable. In the case of abortion it isn't a crime in the other country (England, for example), thereby making it practically impossible to prosecute. Please stop dragging in 'red herrings' that have been perviously shown to be irrelevant (and unfounded, in the first place).
Delirium wrote: » Not a red herring. It shows that laws can be enacted for crimes committed abroad. A question was asked about what could be done about abortions carried out in foreign countries, I responded.
Delirium wrote: » None of that contradicts what I said, i.e. contraceptive failing means it was irresponsible sex.If the brakes on my brand new car fail due to mechanical failure, that doesn't mean it was irresponsible driving.
Delirium wrote: » Your quoted text also doesn't address why a married couple are having irresponsible sex if the woman has an abortion but not if they decide to be parents?
Delirium wrote: » Anyone who has sex and accepts the consequences, to me, are not having irresponsible sex. That applies equally to those who have the child or decide to have an abortion.
Delirium wrote: » Also, I would presume that rape falls under "irresponsible sex" so you would oppose the woman having an abortion? That something which I couldn't support, overriding the consent of a woman who was impregnated without consent.
NuMarvel wrote: » Ireland has a law like that; the Sexual Offences (Jurisdiction) Act, 1996, so there is precedence in our own legislation too.
J C wrote: » ... the chance of the brakes failiing under such circumstances would be negligible to the point of non-existent ... ... but if you pick up some drunken randomer 'bad boy' ... and let him drive your car ... then that would be gross irresponsiblity on your part as well as his.
If they are both drunk at the time ... or couldn't be bothered to use contaception properly ... then this would be irresponsible whether they are married or not. If they accept the consequences, like you say, then that will include accepting any pregnancy that may result ... and not kiling their mistakes.
Rape doesn't obviously fall under 'irresposible sex' given that the woman involved didn't consent, in the first place ... and therfore bears no responsiblity for what happened. Routine medical treatment for rape victims, includes the 'morning after pill' ... which eliminates the need for abortion after rape.
Delirium wrote: » Which means that becoming pregnant because contraceptives failed isn't irresponsible.
Delirium wrote: » Nope. Recently a woman was refused the morning after pill when the pharmacist said she was lying about being raped. She subsequently had to travel to the UK to have an abortion.
Bob_Marley wrote: - And re-claiming, despite it being refuted, that an unborn child is just of lump of cells (because we all are if you wan't to go down that route) or that a fetus is not a very distinct and vulnerable human life (because biologically in the human life cycle it certainty is ), or that only preferred human lives should have any rights, are not arguments.
J C wrote: » ... why did she go to some random chemist ? ... did she not seek medical treatment from a doctor? ... and did she not go to the Gardai ... who would have arrange a full forensic medical as well full medical treatment for her? This story has all the hallmarks of an 'urban legend' ... or an 'old wives tale'.
A Cork woman was denied the morning-after pill after being accused of lying about being raped by a high street pharmacy. The 24-year-old was asked a series of invasive questions following the incident before being denied the emergency contraception. In harrowing turn of events, the young woman discovered that she was pregnant with his child and she was forced to travel to the UK to abort the baby.
pilly wrote: » So you want people to make an argument but not one you disagree with? Tell me exactly what is the point of that? FWIW my point of view is very simple and straight forward. Fully grown human women and their existing children are MORE important than an embryo. Now you can disagree with that all you like but you can't demand that I don't make that argument.
Delirium wrote: » here you go:Source I don't question why the woman who was raped didn't do X. She's probably traumatised by it. The point is that a series of awful events led to the abortion. I don't see how it was made better by forcing her to travel for the abortion. It would be better for her to be able to have it here.
J C wrote: » My point still remains ... why didn't she go to a doctor and/or the Gardai, if she was raped. They would have treated her for the rape (including the MAP) ... and would have prosecuted the (alleged) rapist.
david75 wrote: » JC are you forgetting or unaware that a large number of abortion statistics are marrried women having consensual ‘joyful’ and presumably safely within the confines of marriage, who have children and simply don’t want anymore?
david75 wrote: » You’re portraying women who become pregnant out of one night stands in the worst light possible. That is totally hateful of women. All women. You think married women didn’t have one night stands before they were married?
J C wrote: » ... and they and their husbands are amongst the most selfish of them all ... killling your unborn child because you don't want any more children !! They have the resources and the stability to offer this child a lovely home ... and instead they choose to kill it. If they feel they have enough children, then they always have the option of sterilisation, if they haven't the discipline or the inclination to use contraception properly. ... some men and women may have one night stands after they are married as well. Either way there are two people clearly involved in a one night stand ... and both stand equally guilty of irresponsible behaviour.
J C wrote: » The Sexual Offences (Jurisdiction) Act, 1996 sets no precedent for prosecuting women who have abortions outside the state. Here is the critical section of the Act:- "2.—(1) Where a person, being a citizen of the State or being ordinarily resident in the State, does an act, in a place other than the State (“the place”), against or involving a child which— (a) constitutes an offence under the law of the place, and (b) if done within the State, would constitute an offence under, or referred to in, an enactment specified in the Schedule to this Act,"Like I have previously said, the act needs to be illegal in both juristictions. This is the case with perverts preying on children ... but it isn't the case with abortion (because it is only illegal in Ireland).
david75 wrote: » Do you know how many rapes and sexual assaults go unreported annually? Isn’t it more that go unreported than are reported? Do you have any understanding why women wouldn’t report it?
J C wrote: » I don't know how many rapes aren't reported annually ... and neither does anybody else. ... but here is how the rapes that are reported, in the UK, are dealt with by the legal system: "Out of the 41,150 reported rapes, only 5,190 went to court, and just 2,991 people were convicted - meaning that 42 per cent of prosecutions for rape were unsuccessful." Anyway, if a woman for whatever reason, doesn't wish to report a rape, to the Gardai, then she should, at least, seek medical treatment from a doctor, who will routinely prescribe the MAP for her, thereby eliminating the risk of pregnancy resulting from the rape.If she is too traumatised to do this herself, then those who care about her, should ensure that she gets all necessary medical treatment, at the very least.
NuMarvel wrote: » There is no legal requirement for laws to only apply to activities that are illegal in both jurisdiction. Especially if it's a law that would be supported by the 8th, which was used to prevent someone from having a legal abortion in another jurisdiction. At the end of the day, you don't want a law like this. And neither do I, but at least I'm being honest about it being possible if we did want to.
