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Ireland 2040 plan "will kill rural Ireland"

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ireland-2040-strategy-will-kill-rural-ireland-according-to-coalition-825724.html

Deja vu anyone?

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Sam Russell

Mod: Now the Ireland 2040 plan is published, this thread can close. Please transfer your attention to the real plan rather than the speculation.

Posts welcome here.

lawred2

zetalambda wrote: »

Really? Perhaps you could give us a run down of all the individual deals. You're talking through your arse chap! Apple have moved their tax affairs out of Ireland. Currently, Facebook and Google are the companies availing the most of our "tax deals".

The question was in relation to why Apple chose Cork many moons ago. They were given a deal to locate there. I made no mention of Apple's current tax arrangements. Holyhill was a third world wasteland when Apple selected it as a site near 38 years ago.

nuac

zetalambda wrote: »

Every single foreign company in Ireland is here for the "tax deals" or were you under the impression they came here for the friendly people and the craic?

Tax is part of the package, but the locality is also important. See my remarks on Allergan in Westport.

Westport of the Welcomes is not just a phrase.

nuac

hmmm wrote: »

It's not realistic.

Google and Intel are not moving to Mullingar or Westport. They can be attracted to Dublin & surrounding areas if we are lucky.

It's the same old sop to the rural lobby, while in the real world the IDA will do their best to actually get on with attracting FDI to Ireland. We should be building our infrastructure plan around realistic assumptions for future growth.

No, Westport is small, even in the Irish context, but we like it - as do many others including tourists. investors and business people.

Westport people modestly agree with Irish Times readers who voted it the best Irish town in which to live.

The town has had a strong industrial tradition for many generations. That culture, scenic surroundings and positive attitude from community and local authorities helped to attract Allergan in 1974. 25 jobs there at first, now about 1250. Inter alia, all the Botox for all markets outside America is made in Westport.

There are similar success stories in other Mayo towns e.g. Baxter-Travenol in Castlebar, Coca-Cola in Ballina.

So could our Dublin centered friends look West?.

[Deleted User]

bk wrote: »

To be honest, I've no idea what the sentiment being discussed is here. People using Cork and Limerick cities as some sort of example of "rural" Ireland

People aren't saying they are rural Ireland, they are saying they open up job opertunuties to people living in rural Ireland. A 100 jobs created in Dublin is not worth a fiddlers to someone living rurally 20 miles outside Galway city or 20 miles outside cork city. But that job created in Galway/cork city or more than likely and even better in an industrial estate on the outskirts of either city give someone who is in their 20's the oppertunuty to stay living in their home area, or keep a family Living where their roots are or give someone a chance to move home who was forced to move to Dublin or worse again abroad.

I don't think those born and bread in cities and towns understand how much a lot of rural people want to live where they are from, beside family and the people they grew up around (this is speaking personally too)

zetalambda

lawred2 wrote: »

Apple and Dell got their own special deals above and beyond what others are here to avail of.

Really? Perhaps you could give us a run down of all the individual deals.

You're talking through your arse chap! Apple have moved their tax affairs out of Ireland. Currently, Facebook and Google are the companies availing the most of our "tax deals".

markodaly

Luka Lemon Town wrote: »

T

I'd personally rather take my chances with the pollution and have the comfort, flexibility and practicality of my car. The only reason I choose the bus over my car is when I'm going on the beer after work.

A selfish attitude if I must say so myself.

markodaly

Luka Lemon Town wrote: »

That I would be slow to bet on, cars are terribly inefficient in slow moving traffic and when idling.

Have you been under a rock the past two decades? Modern cars when stopped pretty much turn themselves 'off'.

lawred2

zetalambda wrote: »

Every single foreign company in Ireland is here for the "tax deals" or were you under the impression they came here for the friendly people and the craic?

Apple and Dell got their own special deals above and beyond what others are here to avail of.

Tell me how wrote: »

Wow.

What is wow about it? Cork and Limerick cities are not in rural Ireland. They are cities and very much part of urban Ireland. They have vibrant and growing industries. Those industries are different in nature from Dublin, but that is because they are secondary cities and quiet a bit smaller then Dublin. Nothing wrong with that, they are what they are and need to play to their strengths.

We need to be investing in all our cities and large towns. But each needs different sorts of support.

LeinsterDub

Tell me how wrote: »

Sorry but who is suggesting global tech company moves to Mullingar?

I was just suggesting that the false equivalent of comparison between Cork and West Port isn't helpful. Some here are so entrenched in the Dublin v Ireland mindset they can't see the difference.

Tell me how

bk wrote:

To be honest, I've no idea what the sentiment being discussed is here. People using Cork and Limerick cities as some sort of example of "rural" Ireland

Wow.

Tell me how wrote: »

^^^

OK, but that doesn't change the sentiment of what was being discussed here.

To be honest, I've no idea what the sentiment being discussed is here. People using Cork and Limerick cities as some sort of example of "rural" Ireland

Tell me how

^^^

OK, but that doesn't change the sentiment of what was being discussed here.

Tell me how wrote: »

How did Apple end up in Cork and Dell in Limerick? Did they not get the memo?

Apple, came to Cork in the 70's. A small company at the time, their first facility outside of the US. It was basically a factory in Hollyhill in Cork, one of the poorest and most deprived areas in Cork (think burnt out cars just outside the gates).

It was basically just a factory and we were just cheap labour at the time. There was very little skill involved, they just needed any old joe soap to stand at a factory line all day and screw motherboards in every 30 seconds all day.

Of course we are no longer a cheap location for such manufacturing and all that business moved to Asia. However fortunately Apple continued to grew and eventually became one of the richest companies in the world.

It was touch and go for a while, they nearly closed the whole operation down, but thanks to really skilled and hard working local management they managed to change the focus here to admin and customer support for the EU market and they have since grown there.

Definitely a success story. But don't kid yourself, most of the high end software engineering and innovation is done in the US bay area.

Dell, a very similar story, just cheap manufacturing location in the 80's that has changed and managed to stick around.

Don't get me wrong, no one is saying that Cork, Limerick cities can't be great locations for development, but it is important to understand the history of the industries there and they certainly aren't part of rural Ireland :rolleyes:

All the pharmaceutical firms down in Cork is a much better example of an industry clustering around one another in one location and developing and expanding.

Tell me how

Pete_Cavan wrote:

Why are posters in this thread constantly referring to companies in Cork, Limerick and Galway? Are they using some of our largest urban areas as examples of rural areas attracting investment or has the thread fully descended into everyone v Dublin? If the latter, the thread title should be changed as Cork, Limerick and Galway cities are far from rural.

No but it's not rocket science to understand that they keep workers in the surrounding areas.

Which creates jobs as they live and spend money.

Also those companies then utilise local businesses who might be located on the satellite towns around them.

Pete_Cavan

Why are posters in this thread constantly referring to companies in Cork, Limerick and Galway? Are they using some of our largest urban areas as examples of rural areas attracting investment or has the thread fully descended into everyone v Dublin? If the latter, the thread title should be changed as Cork, Limerick and Galway cities are far from rural.

Tell me how

hmmm wrote:

The infrastructure deficiencies of the one city we have at scale are not properly addressed, while the plan goes off on dreams about 75% of growth happening outside Dublin. It's aspirational bull to keep the non-Dublin lobby happy, and has no place in an infrastructure plan that should be grounded in reality.

Don't you just wish it was the Republic of Dublin. Things would be so much easier. Apart from having to maybe get water from the Shannon.

Tell me how

LeinsterDub wrote:

However can we stop also the continuation of Dublin v the rest argument by comparing cities like Cork and Limerick to towns the likes of Mullingar and Westport

Sorry but who is suggesting global tech company moves to Mullingar?

Anyone who suggests anything outside of Dublin is being misunderstood that they mean small towns. And that every small town will be lucky enough to attract the sane type of business.

Zebra3

hmmm wrote: »

Gosh, 100. Google have 7000 people in Dublin. They are not moving to Shannon, no matter how many railways are built.

The infrastructure deficiencies of the one city we have at scale are not properly addressed, while the plan goes off on dreams about 75% of growth happening outside Dublin. It's aspirational bull to keep the non-Dublin lobby happy, and has no place in an infrastructure plan that should be grounded in reality.

Relax there, I was only pointing something out. Which another poster says is actually 250.

screamer

I think this plan is pure crap. Dublin will continue to grow but housing and services will be creaking with demand even more than now. For Dublin's sake there have to be commuters..... There has to be some rural place where these commuters can live and then the very simple answer is high speed bullet Train station run efficiently at peak times and I that a service a places like City West so this bull**** of getting a bus back out is done away with. Jobs "down the country" generally pay poorly and are not sustainable without huge grants.

screamer

I think this plan is pure crap. Dublin will continue to grow but housing and services will be creaking with demand even more than now. For Dublin's sake there have to be commuters..... There has to be some rural place where these commuters can live and then the very simple answer is high speed bullet Trains run efficiently at peak times and I that a service a places like City West so this bull**** of getting a bus back out is done away with. Jobs "down the country" generally pay poorly and are not sustainable without huge grants.

hmmm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.

Gosh, 100. Google have 7000 people in Dublin. They are not moving to Shannon, no matter how many railways are built.

The infrastructure deficiencies of the one city we have at scale are not properly addressed, while the plan goes off on dreams about 75% of growth happening outside Dublin. It's aspirational bull to keep the non-Dublin lobby happy, and has no place in an infrastructure plan that should be grounded in reality.

zetalambda

lawred2 wrote: »

tax deals I believe

Every single foreign company in Ireland is here for the "tax deals" or were you under the impression they came here for the friendly people and the craic?

[Deleted User]

Zebra3 wrote: »

Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.

Intel shannon have about 250 employess. Analog devices in limerick another big player has 1200 employees.

source

Zebra3 wrote: »

Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.

Also Jaguar opening r&d in Shannon.

And Limerick city also has; Northern Trust, Analogue Devices, Stryker, Johnson & Johnson, Cooke Medical, General Motors, Glass Lewis, Kostal, Maersk, Regeneron, Uber and Viagogo to name a a few of the multinational FDI companies.

They do like to go other places of given the opportunity, and the right location can be found.

Shn99

Zebra3 wrote: »

Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.

Still in Shannon

Zebra3

hmmm wrote: »

It's not realistic.

Google and Intel are not moving to Mullingar or Westport. They can be attracted to Dublin & surrounding areas if we are lucky.

Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.

LeinsterDub

Tell me how wrote: »

How did Apple end up in Cork and Dell in Limerick? Did they not get the memo?

This is just a continuation of the it's Dublin v the Country argument. Limerick and Cork are capable of winning regional office of major international companies and in some cases headquarters.

However can we stop also the continuation of Dublin v the rest argument by comparing cities like Cork and Limerick to towns the likes of Mullingar and Westport

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

How did Apple end up in Cork and Dell in Limerick? Did they not get the memo?

Or Cisco in Galway or Facebook in Cork, or Valeo in Tuam, Co. Galway

Or boston sci and medtronic in galway (and many more).

Or stryker, Eli lilly, J&J, TYCO and GSK in Cork (and lots of tech places like Maacom who people have propably heard of but are very important in the electonics world).