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Ireland 2040 plan "will kill rural Ireland"

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    lawred2 wrote:
    75% of population growth 'should be' outside of Dublin..
    hmmm wrote:
    When you read that at the start you know the plan is a crock.

    Why do you both disagree with this ideal?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo


    That I would be slow to bet on, cars are terribly inefficient in slow moving traffic and when idling.

    Inefficient, a waste of money.

    However, when the cars moving at pace it’s more efficient and is better value for money.

    But… it’s polluting more. ;)

    Every single occupant diesel Passat motoring along on the road is polluting more than your average Dublin bus with ninety people on board.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    John_Rambo wrote:
    Every single occupant diesel Passat motoring along on the road is polluting more than your average Dublin bus with ninety people on board.

    So we're agreed, more jobs in towns/ cities outside of Dublin so the whole of Leinster and beyond isn't pouring into it as part of their 12 hour day.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Every single occupant diesel Passat motoring along on the road is polluting more than your average Dublin bus with ninety people on board.

    Even more insanely, a Passat with a single driver is actually polluting more then a Dublin Bus with just it's driver and no passengers!!!!!!

    A Dublin Bus with 90 passengers is causing roughly 100 times less pollution per commuter then a Passat!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭ Shn99


    Since the NPF website is under maintenance...here you go


    http://www.thejournal.ie/project-ireland-3855524-Feb2018/?utm_source=facebook_short


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Juniper Black Pinprick


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Inefficient, a waste of money.

    However, when the cars moving at pace it’s more efficient and is better value for money.

    But… it’s polluting more. ;)

    .

    This is not a given. A car crusing along in 6th at 100km/h for 30 mins could easily sit at a lower average rpm than a car constantly speeding up and slowing down for 30 mins in traffic.

    A modern diesel in a high gear at cursing speed is not a whole lot above an idle rpm.

    I'd personally rather take my chances with the pollution and have the comfort, flexibility and practicality of my car. The only reason I choose the bus over my car is when I'm going on the beer after work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,787 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    This is not a given. A car crusing along in 6th at 100km/h for 30 mins could easily sit at a lower average rpm than a car constantly speeding up and slowing down for 30 mins in traffic.

    A modern diesel in a high gear at cursing speed is not a whole lot above an idle rpm.

    I'd personally rather take my chances with the pollution and have the comfort, flexibility and practicality of my car. The only reason I choose the bus over my car is when I'm going on the beer after work.

    Good stuff.

    I certainly hope you have a nice big driveway for it.

    Mother above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo


    This is not a given. A car crusing along in 6th at 100km/h for 30 mins could easily sit at a lower average rpm than a car constantly speeding up and slowing down for 30 mins in traffic.

    A modern diesel in a high gear at cursing speed is not a whole lot above an idle rpm.

    I'd personally rather take my chances with the pollution and have the comfort, flexibility and practicality of my car. The only reason I choose the bus over my car is when I'm going on the beer after work.

    Basically the higher the revolutions of the internal combustion engine the more fuel is burnt and more pollutants are released.

    Trust me, there’s no lower amount of revolutions than idle. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo


    So we're agreed, more jobs in towns/ cities outside of Dublin so the whole of Leinster and beyond isn't pouring into it as part of their 12 hour day.

    Yeah deffo... sure read back, I was in support of massive investment in to Limerick!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Juniper Black Pinprick


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Basically the higher the revolutions of the internal combustion engine the more fuel is burnt and more pollutants are released.

    Trust me, there’s no lower amount of revolutions than idle. ;)

    In stop start traffic you are not idling all the time you end up reving quite high often and emissions can be higher while idling than driving at low revs so you are not as right as you think you are.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭ Shn99


    NPF.ie now live


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo


    In stop start traffic you are not idling all the time you end up reving quite high often and emissions can be higher while idling than driving at low revs so you are not as right as you think you are.

    Now you're catching on. That's why city travel by bike, bus and train is so much less polluting than the car travel that rural people are forced to use. Most of Dublin’s quays are now bus and cycle with only one car lane because of the amount of people cycling and busing is so much more than driving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    John_Rambo wrote:
    Now you're catching on. That's why city travel by bike, bus and train is so much less polluting than the car travel that rural people are forced to use. Most of Dublin’s quays are now bus and cycle with only one car lane because of the amount of people cycling and busing is so much more than driving.

    They abandoned plans to convert lanes on the quays to a cycle lane last September.
    Took 500k or something to make that decision.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭ John_Rambo


    They abandoned plans to convert lanes on the quays to a cycle lane last September.
    Took 500k or something to make that decision.

    Yeah, when I say bus and cycle lanes, I mean the bus lanes are for cyclists too. The have "LANA BUS" written on then along with the classic Cycle icon in white paint. I've cycled them, much much better with the two lanes, Dublin bus drivers are very good with cyclists, but some of the private operators are clueless.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ pilly


    Good stuff.

    I certainly hope you have a nice big driveway for it.

    Mother above.

    Not at all, he'll have a double garage don't you know. Has to have room for the wife's 4 wheel drive that she brings the kids to school in. :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭ hmmm


    Why do you both disagree with this ideal?
    It's not realistic.

    Google and Intel are not moving to Mullingar or Westport. They can be attracted to Dublin & surrounding areas if we are lucky.

    It's the same old sop to the rural lobby, while in the real world the IDA will do their best to actually get on with attracting FDI to Ireland. We should be building our infrastructure plan around realistic assumptions for future growth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    hmmm wrote:
    Google and Intel are not moving to Mullingar or Westport. They can be attracted to Dublin & surrounding areas if we are lucky.

    How did Apple end up in Cork and Dell in Limerick? Did they not get the memo?


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,836 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    How did Apple end up in Cork and Dell in Limerick? Did they not get the memo?

    tax deals I believe


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Juniper Black Pinprick


    How did Apple end up in Cork and Dell in Limerick? Did they not get the memo?

    Or Cisco in Galway or Facebook in Cork, or Valeo in Tuam, Co. Galway

    Or boston sci and medtronic in galway (and many more).

    Or stryker, Eli lilly, J&J, TYCO and GSK in Cork (and lots of tech places like Maacom who people have propably heard of but are very important in the electonics world).


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    How did Apple end up in Cork and Dell in Limerick? Did they not get the memo?

    This is just a continuation of the it's Dublin v the Country argument. Limerick and Cork are capable of winning regional office of major international companies and in some cases headquarters.

    However can we stop also the continuation of Dublin v the rest argument by comparing cities like Cork and Limerick to towns the likes of Mullingar and Westport


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,512 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    hmmm wrote: »
    It's not realistic.

    Google and Intel are not moving to Mullingar or Westport. They can be attracted to Dublin & surrounding areas if we are lucky.

    Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭ Shn99


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.

    Still in Shannon


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭ source


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.

    Also Jaguar opening r&d in Shannon.

    And Limerick city also has; Northern Trust, Analogue Devices, Stryker, Johnson & Johnson, Cooke Medical, General Motors, Glass Lewis, Kostal, Maersk, Regeneron, Uber and Viagogo to name a a few of the multinational FDI companies.

    They do like to go other places of given the opportunity, and the right location can be found.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Juniper Black Pinprick


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.

    Intel shannon have about 250 employess. Analog devices in limerick another big player has 1200 employees.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 822 zetalambda


    lawred2 wrote: »
    tax deals I believe

    Every single foreign company in Ireland is here for the "tax deals" or were you under the impression they came here for the friendly people and the craic?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭ hmmm


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Actually intel do (or used to) employ about 100 people or so in Shannon.
    Gosh, 100. Google have 7000 people in Dublin. They are not moving to Shannon, no matter how many railways are built.

    The infrastructure deficiencies of the one city we have at scale are not properly addressed, while the plan goes off on dreams about 75% of growth happening outside Dublin. It's aspirational bull to keep the non-Dublin lobby happy, and has no place in an infrastructure plan that should be grounded in reality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,555 ✭✭✭ screamer


    I think this plan is pure crap. Dublin will continue to grow but housing and services will be creaking with demand even more than now. For Dublin's sake there have to be commuters..... There has to be some rural place where these commuters can live and then the very simple answer is high speed bullet Trains run efficiently at peak times and I that a service a places like City West so this bull**** of getting a bus back out is done away with. Jobs "down the country" generally pay poorly and are not sustainable without huge grants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,555 ✭✭✭ screamer


    I think this plan is pure crap. Dublin will continue to grow but housing and services will be creaking with demand even more than now. For Dublin's sake there have to be commuters..... There has to be some rural place where these commuters can live and then the very simple answer is high speed bullet Train station run efficiently at peak times and I that a service a places like City West so this bull**** of getting a bus back out is done away with. Jobs "down the country" generally pay poorly and are not sustainable without huge grants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,512 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    hmmm wrote: »
    Gosh, 100. Google have 7000 people in Dublin. They are not moving to Shannon, no matter how many railways are built.

    The infrastructure deficiencies of the one city we have at scale are not properly addressed, while the plan goes off on dreams about 75% of growth happening outside Dublin. It's aspirational bull to keep the non-Dublin lobby happy, and has no place in an infrastructure plan that should be grounded in reality.

    Relax there, I was only pointing something out. Which another poster says is actually 250.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    However can we stop also the continuation of Dublin v the rest argument by comparing cities like Cork and Limerick to towns the likes of Mullingar and Westport

    Sorry but who is suggesting global tech company moves to Mullingar?

    Anyone who suggests anything outside of Dublin is being misunderstood that they mean small towns. And that every small town will be lucky enough to attract the sane type of business.


This discussion has been closed.
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