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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Autochange

Bear markets
Fud
Regulation
Wall Street manipulation
The supposed tether ticking time bomb

What are your thoughts? Have you cashed out? Have you been buying the dips?

MOD NOTE:
Its good to see healthy debate and discussion taking place and I am sure every supporter of cryptocurrency and blockchain can agree that the contrarian viewpoint is worthwhile reading, if only to act as an anchor and help prevent investors from getting carried away in an echo chamber of "everything is wonderful, just keep going"

However, there have been a few reported posts recently which I did not action as I wanted to see the thread level out itself rather than start forcing viewpoints and I have been in two minds about that decision.

I'm not going to single any posters out but I'm going to ask that all posters read the forum charter and I want to point out that it was established years ago in the Television forum, that dropping in on a forum to tell the followers of that forums topic (in that case a particular tv show) that it was all crap and only idiots watched it etc etc was the exact definition of being a dick and attempting to troll. I know this because I was the mod of the forum at the time. Now look at the forum charter again.

There is pretty much one rule on this forum : if you cannot discuss in a civil manner, and I mean discuss, not soapbox or attack, then you have absolutely no business posting here and I have no qualms about removing your ability to do so.

This forum is for people that have in interest in cryptocurrencies, blockchain and their application to financial investments. that can be positive or negative but if you really feel the need to start pulling out memes / hiding insults in imaginary hashtags / attacking personalities or just generally being a dick there are other forums you can post in where I will let the local mods determine if it is within the scope of allowable behaviour. Here, it is not.

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Whelo79

Blacktie. wrote: »

Monero is looking good. Was there news i missed?

Hardfork coming up soon.

ballyharpat

I stopped commenting or even figuring out what I thought could happen when it broke the 10k mark 2 weeks ago- I didn’t think it would.

I can’t see it being worth the price it is, but it is still valuable, just like oil is probably worth $80 per barrel, but was up to 140 a few years ago, driven by speculators rather than value.

I Can’t even say what I think bitcoin would be worth, as there are so many other Cryptocurrency that are similar and can do the same thing.

But I am sure there is still money to be made speculating at it.

FWIW

Blacktie.

Monero is looking good. Was there news i missed?

BrokenArrows

Bob24 wrote: »

No update here for a while.

There was decent recovery especially for bitcoin and also a few other major crypto since this thread was started .... but it hasn't reached the previous high and seems to be running out of steam.

What do people see coming next?

My portfolio recovered a lot but has gradually slipped back significantly in the past 2 weeks.

NANO is the only thing which is continuing to recover, everything else is big into the red.

Bob24

No update here for a while.

There was decent recovery especially for bitcoin and also a few other major crypto since this thread was started .... but it hasn't reached the previous high and seems to be running out of steam.

What do people see coming next?

CryptoMad

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm still not seeing how the value of the transaction has anything to do with the speed its verified.

You can pay a higher fee to push it into the next block, but the *value* of the transaction is irrelevant.
The *size* of the transaction is however relevant.

100% correct!

GreeBo

BluePlanet wrote: »

I read a post of yours which seemed to suggest that the value of a transaction would have nothing to do with it being verified.

My response was describing the economy of transaction fees.

Sure, it's possible to send a small value transaction and pay high fee to get it onto the main chain, but that makes no economic sense.

The market of transaction fees push small value transactions off chain.

I'm still not seeing how the value of the transaction has anything to do with the speed its verified.

You can pay a higher fee to push it into the next block, but the *value* of the transaction is irrelevant.
The *size* of the transaction is however relevant.

BluePlanet

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry, but whats this got to do with anything I posted?

I read a post of yours which seemed to suggest that the value of a transaction would have nothing to do with it being verified.

My response was describing the economy of transaction fees.

Sure, it's possible to send a small value transaction and pay high fee to get it onto the main chain, but that makes no economic sense.

The market of transaction fees push small value transactions off chain.

smacl

BluePlanet wrote: »

IOTA isn't a blockchain.
They make pretty exciting claims, but that is all.

Didn't say it was, simply an illustration that the technology is moving in more than one direction.

GreeBo

BluePlanet wrote: »

The blockchain is like a public space a "commons".
Currently the 'cost' of running and securing this blockchain is being paid-for by currency inflation: 12.5 new bitcoins get mined every 10 minutes.
Once the cap on coins is reached the only way to pay for this network is through transaction fees.
Fees are an integral part of the blockchain economy.

When that blockchain (public space) becomes crowded with transactions, buying your way onto the main chain via market forces occurs.
Miners prioritize transactions that award them the highest fees.

Those market forces that push fees higher, should then incentivize development of layer 2 and layer 3 solutions.

Sorry, but whats this got to do with anything I posted?

BluePlanet

smacl wrote: »

I gather this isn't the case for tangle though, where the 'cost' of processing a transaction is to help process other transactions and hence no mining.

IOTA isn't a blockchain.
They make pretty exciting claims, but that is all.

smacl

BluePlanet wrote: »

The blockchain is like a public space a "commons".
Currently the 'cost' of running and securing this blockchain is being paid-for by currency inflation: 12.5 new bitcoins get mined every 10 minutes.
Once the cap on coins is reached the only way to pay for this network is through transaction fees.
Fees are an integral part of the blockchain economy.

When that blockchain (public space) becomes crowded with transactions, buying your way onto the main chain via market forces occurs.
Miners prioritize transactions that award them the highest fees.

Those market forces that push fees higher, should then incentivize development of layer 2 and layer 3 solutions.

I gather this isn't the case for tangle though, where the 'cost' of processing a transaction is to help process other transactions and hence no mining.

BluePlanet

GreeBo wrote: »

Why?
The value of the transaction has no bearing on it being verified or not on the blockchain.
You might *decide* to not wait for small txns, but thats your choice, nothing to do with the underlying tech.

The blockchain is like a public space a "commons".
Currently the 'cost' of running and securing this blockchain is being paid-for by currency inflation: 12.5 new bitcoins get mined every 10 minutes.
Once the cap on coins is reached the only way to pay for this network is through transaction fees.
Fees are an integral part of the blockchain economy.

When that blockchain (public space) becomes crowded with transactions, buying your way onto the main chain via market forces occurs.
Miners prioritize transactions that award them the highest fees.

Those market forces that push fees higher, should then incentivize development of layer 2 and layer 3 solutions.

makeorbrake

GreeBo wrote: »

As a merchant you have a comeback with a Visa card, you have exactly diddly squat with crypto.

Yup, and all the while we are talking about poor tx times - something that used not be a problem for btc until it hit a scaling issue. Something that (subject to successful implementation) lightning network will resolve.

GreeBo

Shauny2010 wrote: »

No for small transactions it should be enough that once a transaction is announced to the network it can be trusted.
VISA contact-less transactions are not verified straight away either but the VISA card is registered to an owner, so maybe in the future to avail of zero confirmation transactions you may need to have the Bitcoin wallet address registered to you.

Why?
The value of the transaction has no bearing on it being verified or not on the blockchain.
You might *decide* to not wait for small txns, but thats your choice, nothing to do with the underlying tech.

As a merchant you have a comeback with a Visa card, you have exactly diddly squat with crypto.

BrokenArrows

GreeBo wrote: »

Accepting BTC as payment without confirmation defeats the whole point!

Sure I could use the same BTC to pay for 10 tvs in 10 different shops in an hour before txns are confirmed.
Also not sure how they would recognise anyone, my wallet isnt tied to me, its just an address, unless they are tracking wallets to people manually, which again slows down the process.

Obviously yes but the acceptance of BTC without confirmation for small transactions in person would be reasonably acceptable.

For large transactions you obviously wait.

makeorbrake

Lightning Network takes care of this once it's fully debugged and ready to be deployed. You can't really judge an emerging technology on how it is right now - when it's clear it's undergoing innovative change.

Shauny2010

GreeBo wrote: »

Accepting BTC as payment without confirmation defeats the whole point!

Sure I could use the same BTC to pay for 10 tvs in 10 different shops in an hour before txns are confirmed.
Also not sure how they would recognise anyone, my wallet isnt tied to me, its just an address, unless they are tracking wallets to people manually, which again slows down the process.

No for small transactions it should be enough that once a transaction is announced to the network it can be trusted.
VISA contact-less transactions are not verified straight away either but the VISA card is registered to an owner, so maybe in the future to avail of zero confirmation transactions you may need to have the Bitcoin wallet address registered to you.

TripleAce

GreeBo wrote: »

Accepting BTC as payment without confirmation defeats the whole point!

You gotta start somewhere. I am sure BTC (or whatever will replace it) usage will be much different 10 years from now, this is some sort of "pilot" phase in my eyes. This project was started by a small group of friends, I am sure that if a big company sees this as an opportunity to deploy BTC usage at larger scale we could see a major step ahead in the right direction.

Also, this town pretty small (located in the richest area of the whole country) and they pretty much all know each other, nobody is going to scam nobody over a coffee.

(I would be more worried if this was happening in Naples though

Kenny Logins

Lightning Network has been launched to solve this issue. It's pretty much instantaneous and with very low fees.

GreeBo

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Well its actually pretty easy to accomplish.
As soon as you send a bitcoin transaction it will appear on the blockchain very quickly. It will just not be confirmed yet.

You will be able to see the value of the transaction and to validate that its arriving to the correct address.

There is a small risk that the transaction is invalid but for the sake of a coffee or something i think its an acceptable risk. Nobody is going to go to the hassle of creating false transactions for the sake of a coffee and even if they do it wont last long as the staff will eventually recognise who it is.

Accepting BTC as payment without confirmation defeats the whole point!

Sure I could use the same BTC to pay for 10 tvs in 10 different shops in an hour before txns are confirmed.
Also not sure how they would recognise anyone, my wallet isnt tied to me, its just an address, unless they are tracking wallets to people manually, which again slows down the process.

BrokenArrows

Bob24 wrote: »

The question is: is it indeed what they have? (and since bitcoin transfers are not instant, does the system have some mechanism to instantly guarantee to the shop that the transaction will be paid so that they don't end up with no money)

I'm a bit doubtful to be honest as the video doesn't seem to show or explain at all how payments work. Could very well be vapourware. But if they do it would be interesting to know how it works.

Well its actually pretty easy to accomplish.
As soon as you send a bitcoin transaction it will appear on the blockchain very quickly. It will just not be confirmed yet.

You will be able to see the value of the transaction and to validate that its arriving to the correct address.

There is a small risk that the transaction is invalid but for the sake of a coffee or something i think its an acceptable risk. Nobody is going to go to the hassle of creating false transactions for the sake of a coffee and even if they do it wont last long as the staff will eventually recognise who it is.

Franz Von Peppercorn

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I think the price is going to go up if the rumour is true. Nice way to make a few quid. It’s all built on a foundation of sand of course, but if you were to hop in, make some profit, and get the hell back out into fiat then I’d all for it.

Dude. Can I subscribe to your newsletter. Thanks.

Fighting Tao

Coinbase have rectified their payment issue. The 6 transactions I had were taken out of my account again. Therefore I presume that those who had money taken from their accounts have had it credited back in.

makeorbrake

Bob24 wrote: »

It's technically possible. But the questions is has it actually been implemented here (or somewhere else), or is this exemple vapourware?

You don't have to enter any URL. Open your mobile wallet and scan the code. As mentioned, the current bottleneck for that type of transaction is time taken. That used not be a problem and it's hoped that it won't be again soon enough.

BrokenArrows

lifeandtimes wrote: »

The crypto cafe on aungier street accepts ETH etc

ETH has a much quicker transfer time than BTC

lifeandtimes

Bob24 wrote: »

It's technically possible. But the questions is has it actually been implemented here (or somewhere else), or is this exemple vapourware?

The crypto cafe on aungier street accepts ETH etc

Bob24

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Problem is they are using bitcoin(which can take a few minutes). Plenty of other cryptos that have almost instantaneous transactions speed so it's completely plausible

It's technically possible. But the questions is has it actually been implemented here (or somewhere else), or is this exemple vapourware?

lifeandtimes

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Nope. It was genuinely credited back to my account. I suspect the transactions will get cancelled though as they are in error.

My account doesnt have any refunds to it, shame

lifeandtimes

Bob24 wrote: »

The question is: is it indeed what they have? (and since bitcoin transfers are not instant, does the system have some mechanism to instantly guarantee to the shop that the transaction will be paid so that they don't end up with no money)

I'm a bit doubtful to be honest as the video doesn't seem to show or explain at all how payments work. Could very well be vapourware. But if they do it would be interesting to know how it works.

Problem is they are using bitcoin(which can take a few minutes). Plenty of other cryptos that have almost instantaneous transactions speed so it's completely plausible