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Child Item

School Shooting in Parkland, Florida

bnt

Breaking story via the BBC - reports of multiple casualties with a shooter still inside the school.

edit: report from Fox News:

Authorities also said students and teachers should remain barricaded in the school until they could be reached by police

Dispatch at the Broward Sheriff’s Office confirmed the school was on lockdown and police were on location.

According to WSVN, the Margate Fire Rescue team described the scene as a mass casualty incident, which reportedly means at least 20 people were injured.

https://twitter.com/wsvn/status/963861452678246401

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uncleoswald

ThinkProgress wrote: »

This is why focusing solely on the gun, as the primary root of the problem, is a very unintelligent approach. It's just a dumb reactionary response.

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting focusing solely on guns, but even bringing them up as part of the discussion results in defensiveness and whataboutary from the pro-gun lobby (and the contrary minded on here). Usually they will cry that mental health is the real problem but then offer no real solution to tackling that either. If you want to see a real dumb reactionary response check out all the responses like "Cars kill, should we ban cars too!?"

But if anyone was really serious tackling gun deaths in the US I think they would have to agree that part of the solution has to be trying to reduce the amount of guns in circulation. If you have ever held a gun you know they are a very empowering tool. If you buy one to defend your family you feel safer (even if statistics say otherwise). And on the flip side if you harbour hatred for society or certain groups, owning a gun could help you feel empowered to act against them.

In Australia when they brought in sweeping gun control measures to reduce gun ownership, suicide rates dropped considerably. Why would suicide rates fall just because one method wasn't available? Surely if you want to kill yourself and you don't have a gun you would just go about it another way? Guns are tools to make killing easier and if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Manic Moran wrote: »

But does/can the problem have to be tackled by banning guns? Or can it perhaps be tackled by other means more effectively, if perhaps with less fanfare?

But can the problem be tackled partially by stricter gun laws? Sorry if I am making you repeat yourself but what are the other solutions you propose? And what do you mean by less fanfare? I would suggest it is often the pro-gun lobby why cry "2nd Amendment!" at a mere hint of tightening laws that are been dramatic.

JupiterKid

America's deeply sick obsession with guns makes it an unsafe society in which to raise a child. Each day your child goes off to school, do you worry if they'll return home alive? Could that be a factor in the explosion in home schooling?

It is a country going down the tubes - and I lived there for a good while so I know quite a good deal about it - and f*ck the usual apologists who come on to defend the indefensible here.

FAILSAFE 00

If they couldn't make a change after Sandy Hook I doubt they will ever change.

Hitman3000

FAILSAFE 00 wrote:

If they couldn't make a change after Sandy Hook I doubt they will ever change.

They seem happy enough to suffer the slaughter of helpless kids, so till next time which I doubt we have have to wait to long......

Theboinkmaster

Manic Moran wrote: »

Agreed. But does/can the problem have to be tackled by banning guns? Or can it perhaps be tackled by other means more effectively, if perhaps with less fanfare?

For example, should the first question be "Why does he have a gun?" or "Why does he think it would be a good idea to go kill a bunch of schoolkids?".

You are just like trump - blame mental health and leave the guns alone.

If you could wake up tomorrow and with a blink of an eye, rid US of the 300m guns would you? So nobody had one, not even the police?

Whatever about handguns and hunting rifles, wouldn't banning assault rifles be a step in the right direction? Even banning the sale to people with mental health issues? Why not just ban the AR-15 considering how much it's used to slaughter children?

After Sandy Hook Obama couldn't even get background checks passes.

Your country is completed fvcked and I'm glad I can send my children to school each day without worrying if they're going to get shot by the police or slaughtered by another kid with an AR15.

Every time I hear about another mass shooting I just shrug my shoulders and don't give it much attention, complete apathy at this stage.

Fvcking Americans - you elected Trump and love your guns and don't mind 4 year old children being slaughtered. I'm glad most of you don't ever leave the country - stay where you are.

Billy86

JenovaProject wrote: »

Petty political point scoring.
Pretty scummy behaviour.
RIP to those poor kids.

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Disgusting how people can try leverage an atrocity like this for political capital, even the BBC ran with this "white nationalist" theory until they had to add a disclaimer that no evidence existed, really low. Especially from people who insist that certain acts of terrorism should not be pre-judged, shame on you.

That's just what is being reported - point scoring would be the likes of calling the murderer here a 'very fine person'.

If you don't want to hear what the news is being reporting on this story as per the head of a local white supremacist group in that area, maybe just avoid the thread.

Hande hoche!

Billy86 wrote: »

That's just what is being reported - point scoring would be the likes of calling the murderer here a 'very fine person'.

If you don't want to hear what the news is being reporting on this story as per the head of a local white supremacist group in that area, maybe just avoid the thread.

That group look like unique individuals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM0L4rt5Su4

Billy86

Hande hoche! wrote: »

That group look like unique individuals.

Certainly are! The militia type groups (be it white supremacists, doomsday/post-apocalyptic prepper types, conspiracy nuts or those with an obsession over the government taking guns, and on and on) across the US in general are usually fascinatingly bizarre I find, like one of those things where you look up one youtube video and find yourself down a rabbit hole two hours later with no idea how you got there.

JenovaProject

Billy86 wrote: »

That's just what is being reported - point scoring would be the likes of calling the murderer here a 'very fine person'.

If you don't want to hear what the news is being reporting on this story as per the head of a local white supremacist group in that area, maybe just avoid the thread.

Dress it up anyway you like...youre fooling nobody.

Korvanica

thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/

Snickers Man

Manic Moran wrote: »

Again, look over my past responses. I am rarely short, granted, but I do try not to be patronising. I suspect such doesn't exactly win over people in argument as reasoned arguments do.

Having accepted your invitation to "look over my past responses", I inadvertently placed this response in one of those older forums. So I copied it back here now.

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have in the past proposed arguments which have been ignored by members on this board who are focused solely on firearms descriptions.
They have varied from a simple process to ensure all firearms are sold with a background check (And correct input of the NICS data) to mandatory firearms training in the same manner that we school folks on sex or driving.
...Effective policies to address the crime rate, both social and criminal ones, will have a dramatic effect on the nation's firearms death rate, certainly more than criminalising firearms.
...Can someone explain why names like Cho and Paddock are so famous? Why are we celebretizing these folks? Is it that hard to pass a law saying "They must die in obscurity", which, according to more than a few psychologists, may reduce the temptation for people to carry out dramatic spree shootings?

With the greatest respect, you have not suggested anything remotely effective or indeed reasonable. You say "We have to reduce crime", with which nobody would argue, but how? Ay, there's the rub.
We have to train people to use firearms properly as if they were cars.
And when something goes catastrophically wrong we have to say "Ssshhh! Don't tell anyone!"

That's it. That's all you've got.

If you had been on the Titanic, the deck chairs on the wreckage would still be perfectly arranged.

Manic Moran wrote: »

So, to summarise, there are at least four tracks which can be considered.

You say "considered" but on reading your subsequent analysis, the word you really meant to use was "rejected".

There's really no point arguing with you. The actions of the countries in the rest of the democratic world, which allow civilians to own firearms but greatly restrict the latitude with which they can be used, speak more eloquently than any spoken or written argument anyone can make here.

Billy86

JenovaProject wrote: »

Dress it up anyway you like...youre fooling nobody.

Like I said, if you would rather not read about the the murderer, maybe don't read the thread about the murder and murderer.

JenovaProject

Billy86 wrote: »

Like I said, if you would rather not read about the the murderer, maybe don't read the thread about the murder and murderer.

I'd rather read this thread and other threads without you bringing Donald Trump into every fcuking one of them.
It's nothing to do with news as you innocently try to paint it.
It's obvious you wanted to link it to trump somehow and it's pretty sad and scummy behaviour.

Billy86

JenovaProject wrote: »

I'd rather read this thread and other threads without you bringing Donald Trump into every fcuking one of them.
It's nothing to do with news as you innocently try to paint it.
It's obvious you wanted to link it to trump somehow and it's pretty sad and scummy behaviour.

No, it is what the news reported because that is what on his social media, and because that is what the leader of a local white supremacist group had discussed.

If a terror attack happens and ISIS take credit for it while it turns out the perpetrator had been supportive of them on social media, it would get reported on and posted in the relevant thread because it would be related to the terror attack or murder. The same if there were an republican splinter group related terror attack or murder that they took credit for, with the perpetrator being supportive of them on social media etc.

It's that simple, and again, if you don't want to know the details of the murderer then don't read the thread about him rather than trying to demand other people not report what is in the news in relation to it.

JenovaProject

Billy86 wrote: »

.

It's that simple, and again, if you don't want to know the details of the murderer then don't read the thread about him rather than trying to demand other people not report what is in the news in relation to it.

Stop being such a little whinger I never demanded a thing...its obvious you have a fetish for all things Trump and I think it's scummy behaviour to bring it into this thread.
It's particularly scummy when it comes from someone like yourself who is very actively anti Trump across Boards.ie.
I'll leave you with the last word...no doubt dressing up your Trump fetish as "only reporting news"...adios amigo.(Ssh don't tell trump I'm a Mexican ; ) )

mcmoustache

JenovaProject wrote: »

Stop being such a little whinger I never demanded a thing...its obvious you have a fetish for all things Trump and I think it's scummy behaviour to bring it into this thread.
It's particularly scummy when it comes from someone like yourself who is very actively anti Trump across Boards.ie.
I'll leave you with the last word...no doubt dressing up your Trump fetish as "only reporting news"...adios amigo.(Ssh don't tell trump I'm a Mexican ; ) )

You don't think the killer's motivations and ideology are important?

I'm afraid I disagree. If this guy was radicalised by ISIS, Antifa, Nazis or someone else, it's pretty important to understand why he did what he did.

JenovaProject

mcmoustache wrote: »

You don't think the killer's motivations and ideology are important?

I'm afraid I disagree. If this guy was radicalised by ISIS, Antifa, Nazis or someone else, it's pretty important to understand why he did what he did.

I really dont think Trump is anywhere near the level of ISIS,Antifa or the Nazis :pac::pac::pac:....Typical OTT reaction but you seem determined to lump him in with those groups so Ill leave you at it.

Grayson

JenovaProject wrote: »

Stop being such a little whinger I never demanded a thing...its obvious you have a fetish for all things Trump and I think it's scummy behaviour to bring it into this thread.
It's particularly scummy when it comes from someone like yourself who is very actively anti Trump across Boards.ie.
I'll leave you with the last word...no doubt dressing up your Trump fetish as "only reporting news"...adios amigo.(Ssh don't tell trump I'm a Mexican ; ) )

Yeah, they're the one making a fuss about trump :rolleyes:

JenovaProject

Grayson wrote: »

Yeah, they're the one making a fuss about trump :rolleyes:

Christy42

JenovaProject wrote: »

I really dont think Trump is anywhere near the level of ISIS,Antifa or the Nazis :pac::pac::pac:....Typical OTT reaction but you seem determined to lump him in with those groups so Ill leave you at it.

They said he was a Trump supporter. I think people were more focusing on the white supremicist links than the Trump. I will happily stick in the racist militia in as a red flag. I don't think Trump is near the level of the Nazis or ISIS (nice one sneaking in Antifa with that lot but anyway).

pitifulgod

JenovaProject wrote: »

Petty political point scoring.
Pretty scummy behaviour.
RIP to those poor kids.

Since the president has said that Nazis and White Supremacists contain good people, has also got considerable support from them. Yep I think it's relevant that the president isn't opposed to white nationalists and in fact panders to them. Plus he brought in cuts in relation to investigating white nationalists.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/346552-trump-cut-funds-to-fight-anti-right-wing-violence

JenovaProject

Christy42 wrote: »

They said he was a Trump supporter. I think people were more focusing on the white supremicist links than the Trump. I will happily stick in the racist militia in as a red flag. I don't think Trump is near the level of the Nazis or ISIS (nice one sneaking in Antifa with that lot but anyway).

It wasnt me that snuck Antifa in it was mcmoustach...Im happy throwing white supremacists in with those groups...and they are most definitely a huge factor in riling up these angry young men who carry out these massacres.

pilly

JenovaProject wrote: »

It wasnt me that snuck Antifa in it was mcmoustach...Im happy throwing white supremacists in with those groups...and they are most definitely a huge factor in riling up these angry young men who carry out these massacres.

But you're not happy with Trump getting slagged off?

Billy86

Christy42 wrote: »

They said he was a Trump supporter. I think people were more focusing on the white supremicist links than the Trump. I will happily stick in the racist militia in as a red flag. I don't think Trump is near the level of the Nazis or ISIS (nice one sneaking in Antifa with that lot but anyway).

That's the telling thing, I quoted the white supremacist story as opposed to slapping up a picture of him in his MAGA hat or whatnot or making any "I'm sure he's a very fine person" type comments, yet some still get triggered and have to resort to childish insults because they're unhappy about the details of the story being reported on in the thread the story is about.

JenovaProject

pilly wrote: »

But you're not happy with Trump getting slagged off?

Of course youre confused because thats not what I said:rolleyes:

pitifulgod

JenovaProject wrote: »

Of course youre confused because thats not what I said:rolleyes:

There's been two major incidents in relation to white supremacists in the last year. Charlottesville where a woman was murdered and this incident. He's spent his time going on racist spiels while Nazis and such seem like a far bigger issue for the nation.

JenovaProject

pitifulgod wrote: »

There's been two major incidents in relation to white supremacists in the last year. Charlottesville where a woman was murdered and this incident. He's spent his time going on racist spiels while Nazis and such seem like a far bigger issue for the nation.

School shootings have been happening long before Trump and they will continue long after he's gone.

everlast75

A nice shut down of the usual "Now is not the time to discuss gun control" BS..

https://twitter.com/car_nove/status/964122342464081921

muppetshow1451

Chrongen wrote: »

And now it's all forgotten.

Roll on next massacre.

Sounds like shootings in general,even at your own doorstep.
But media is doing a great job finding the cause.

Chrongen

Wilberto wrote: »

That's the fourth variation of that statistic that I've seen in this thread alone.

The others being 13th, 17th, and 18th.

:pac:

It's the 8th school shooting but the 18th mass shooting in the US this year.