nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

__________________

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

sunshine and showers

amdublin wrote: »

Another opinion of mine is that having abortion here in Ireland would actually reduce the number of abortions.

At the moment there is in some way "no going back". The appointment is made, the flights are paid for.

If you have an appointment here with less expense you can take the time to think about it more. You don't HAVE to take that flight on that one day because you can only get that time off etc.
Not having to travel takes some pressure away from you and you can take a little more time to think it all through. When you have to travel it's more like it's a done deal, the flights are booked, the dye is cast.

I've heard the head of BPAS say this exact thing about Irish women who go to the UK for abortions. They feel they have to go through with it after all the effort and expense.

eviltwin

pleas advice wrote: »

Well, if you're saying 'abortion on demand' is only used to portray women as spoiled brats... Yes I disagree with that.
Abortion on demand is what it is, theres no judgement in that statement.

There is plenty of judgement from the pro life groups, just take a look at Facebook

pleas advice

Well, if you're saying 'abortion on demand' is only used to portray women as spoiled brats... Yes I disagree with that.
Abortion on demand is what it is, theres no judgement in that statement.

amdublin

pleas advice wrote: »

Is there a need for that? Really?

What are your thoughts on it?

Do you agree or disagree with the statement? And why or why not?

pleas advice

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Yes, but "abortion-on-request" doesn't paint the pregnant woman as a spoilt brat.

Is there a need for that? Really?

amdublin

Another opinion of mine is that having abortion here in Ireland would actually reduce the number of abortions.

At the moment there is in some way "no going back". The appointment is made, the flights are paid for.

If you have an appointment here with less expense you can take the time to think about it more. You don't HAVE to take that flight on that one day because you can only get that time off etc.
Not having to travel takes some pressure away from you and you can take a little more time to think it all through. When you have to travel it's more like it's a done deal, the flights are booked, the dye is cast.

amdublin

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Yes, but "abortion-on-request" doesn't paint the pregnant woman as a spoilt brat.

Yes I guess that. Abortion on demand paints the crazy picture of someone using abortion as a contraceptive?

Anyone who has ever suffered a miscarriage or underwent an abortion (also suffered) will tell you it's not an easy experience - aside from the emotional stuff, physically it is pain - think horrendous stomach cramps I.e. labour contractions.

There is no sane wOman out there who would choose to use abortion as an abortion method. If there is one woman im.a million zillion out there doing that she needs help and support in another way altogether.

PopePalpatine

amdublin wrote: »

I don't get this whole abortion on demand thing. Isn't abortion on request more of an accurate description?

Yes, but "abortion-on-request" doesn't paint the pregnant woman as a spoilt brat.

.......

This post has been deleted.

amdublin

Would it be so bad if abortion was available like the flu jab or antibiotic?

Actually let me rephrase that. Why can't we have abortion available like the flu jab or antibi9tic?
If someone needs an abortion why do we insist on making it so fekking hard for them?? Do we not trust that they have thought about it long and hard?

blanch152

Edward M wrote: »

Ok, some are missing my point.
My point is that repeal of the eighth is the most important issue here now IMO.
There are, like it or not, a big percentage of voters against abortion on demand but in favour of repeal.
You have to be careful how the case for abortion is handled or you may cause some of those in favour of repeal back over the line by saying that abortion should be available like the flu jab or antibiotic.
I presume the pro choice campaign itself will be careful in how they handle it.
The pro life side are going to use every trick and heart tugging photo available to them to try to dissuade these pro repeal but anti abortion on demand voter back over that line.

Given that there is an abortion pill available, which can be viewed merely as an extension of contraception or the morning after pill, what restrictions should be placed on the use of the abortion pill? Like any medical treatment, should it require the approval of a GP following a consultation with the person affected?

pilly

Edward M wrote: »

Ok, some are missing my point.
My point is that repeal of the eighth is the most important issue here now IMO.
There are, like it or not, a big percentage of voters against abortion on demand but in favour of repeal.
You have to be careful how the case for abortion is handled or you may cause some of those in favour of repeal back over the line by saying that abortion should be available like the flu jab or antibiotic.
I presume the pro choice campaign itself will be careful in how they handle it.
The pro life side are going to use every trick and heart tugging photo available to them to try to dissuade these pro repeal but anti abortion on demand voter back over that line.

Okay, now I better understand your point but the facts of the matter are Edward that if the 8th is repealed the option that's most likely is abortion on request up to 12 weeks because both the Citizen Assembly and the Oireachtas decided that this is the only practical way to put it in place.

The more complicated it is made the more likely that women will still have to travel, therefore defeating the purpose of repealing the eighth in the first place.

Will this mean some women having abortions for reasons that you don't approve of? Yes. But that's the way it's going to be.

There is no way of softening this by saying "oh we're only going let the women we approve of have abortions", it doesn't work that way.

amdublin

I don't get this whole abortion on demand thing. Isn't abortion on request more of an accurate description?

And aren't women entitled to request an abortion for a whole host of reasons?

For example
* Who am I to dictate to a woman who wants an abortion for reasons of ffa - nope, No abortion for you on Irish soil, But here is some information on doing it in the UK.
* Who am I to dictate to a woman who wants an abortion because their contraceptive failed and they don't want to be pregnant - nope, No abortion for you on Irish soil, But here is some information on doing it in the UK.
* Who am I to dictate to a woman who got pregnant after being raped - nope, No abortion for you on Irish soil, But here is some information on doing it in the UK.
*Who am I to dictate to a man and a woman who got drunk, had a one night stand with no contraceptive - nope, No abortion for you on Irish soil, But here is some information on doing it in the UK.

Who am I to dictate to anyone that as a result of their bedroom activities they must carry and deliver a baby, or else get out of the country and have an abortion elsewhere.

(Irish) Abortions occur every single day. Just not in Ireland.
It's a a fekked up situation.
We need to mind our own business and leave people to their own business and decisions.

If someone wants to have an abortion it's a private matter for themselves to decide.

pilly

Edward M wrote: »

Everyone gets basic medical care.
The best reason for repeal are cases of women who are refused abortions and cant get the best medical care.
If someone presents with complications after an abortion, be it pill or surgical abroad, will get the care required at that time, if they present while pregnant they won't necessarily get the best.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

More than half the posters for a repeal event featuring Ruth Coppinger in Cork this evening torn down, some then put through a pro-choice councillor's letterbox. That's terrible intimidating behaviour, I would again be interested to hear from people who've been so very and vocally appalled by things like teenagers taking selfies in front of statues that they're compelled to vote against repeal, as to how something like that might influence them?

Edward M

blanch152 wrote: »

Excuse me for saying this but your post displays a breathtaking level of ignorance about how and why women want and have abortions, especially as you claim to be informed on the subject.

Your problem is that you are viewing woman's decisions from your own moral viewpoint. It seems that you believe that all other things being equal, every woman who becomes pregnant would want to have a baby.

Firstly, I claim to be informed, What does that mean?
Secondly I don't view anyone's decisions from my moral standpoint, I made that clear ages ago.
I view my decisions from my moral standpoint, what others do with theirs is up to them.
If it were a vote for abortion on demand alone I would vote against it, but its not, its for repeal of the eighth and if that's passed then the abortion on demand will follow I expect, but that won't stop me voting for repeal, as I feel the eighth is horrendous on its own too.

Edward M

Ok, some are missing my point.
My point is that repeal of the eighth is the most important issue here now IMO.
There are, like it or not, a big percentage of voters against abortion on demand but in favour of repeal.
You have to be careful how the case for abortion is handled or you may cause some of those in favour of repeal back over the line by saying that abortion should be available like the flu jab or antibiotic.
I presume the pro choice campaign itself will be careful in how they handle it.
The pro life side are going to use every trick and heart tugging photo available to them to try to dissuade these pro repeal but anti abortion on demand voter back over that line.

kylith

Can there be pressures in a woman’s life, e.g. financial which would influence her to have an abortion? Yes.

Is this the same as her being ‘pressured’ into having an abortion? No.

.......

This post has been deleted.

.......

This post has been deleted.

blanch152

Edward M wrote: »

My point is why would a woman want an abortion if she didn't feel pressured in to it?

Excuse me for saying this but your post displays a breathtaking level of ignorance about how and why women want and have abortions, especially as you claim to be informed on the subject.

Edward M wrote: »

I have read with interest on several threads here of women who had abortions because of some circumstance or other that made them come to their decision.
I have yet to hear one that had an abortion for no good reason or form of pressure of some sort.

The reason a lot of people don't want abortion on demand is because they feel that people, yes women, will just abort without any real need for it.
I say that as the way people might well look at it, its not a good argument for repeal.
The best argument for repeal are the stories of women who do feel pressurised and forced, by their own circumstances to have no other option but abort.

Your problem is that you are viewing woman's decisions from your own moral viewpoint. It seems that you believe that all other things being equal, every woman who becomes pregnant would want to have a baby.

The existence of contraception puts the lie to this. No form of contraception is 100% effective. Women take contraceptives or ask their mate to do so because they don't want to become pregnant. If and when the contraception fails, that wish not to become pregnant may or may not change. If it doesn't change, they will want an abortion because they don't want to become pregnant.

There is no forcing or pressurising in that decision that many women make by themselves.

Now, that only looks at women in normal functioning relationships where contraception fails and they don't want to be pregnant. Think of the circumstances whereby they were raped or abused and didn't even want to have sex. Again, they are not forced or pressurised, it is their own free choice.

Billy86

AnneFrank wrote: »

I'd like to hear from the thousands of women who were pressurised into having an abortion at a very vulnerable time in their life,and decided to keep their child,and are now a mother to an amazing child with a great future ahead.

Would you also be interested in hearing from the thousands of women who have had kids because abortion wasn't available to them or family members pressured them into not getting an abortion, whose lives and whose children's lives have fallen apart because of it, often leading the child to an eventual life of crime on top of placing significant strains on public services from the sheer amount of attention they require?

Edward M

....... wrote: »

No one can judge the need for an abortion except the woman who is pregnant.

No - the best argument for repeal is that the 8th Amendment actually negatively affects womens healthcare in Ireland - for both wanted and unwanted pregnancies - and that it has caused a culture of export or criminality for women who want access to basic medical care.

Everyone gets basic medical care.
The best reason for repeal are cases of women who are refused abortions and cant get the best medical care.
If someone presents with complications after an abortion, be it pill or surgical abroad, will get the care required at that time, if they present while pregnant they won't necessarily get the best.

B0jangles

Edward M wrote: »

My point is why would a woman want an abortion if she didn't feel pressured in to it?
I have read with interest on several threads here of women who had abortions because of some circumstance or other that made them come to their decision.
I have yet to hear one that had an abortion for no good reason or form of pressure of some sort.

The reason a lot of people don't want abortion on demand is because they feel that people, yes women, will just abort without any real need for it.
I say that as the way people might well look at it, its not a good argument for repeal.
The best argument for repeal are the stories of women who do feel pressurised and forced, by their own circumstances to have no other option but abort.

Seriously?

Because she doesn't want to be pregnant or have a baby? Lots of women have absolutely no interest in motherhood, and it does no-one any good to force them to beome parents anyway - least of all their children.

eviltwin

Edward M wrote: »

My point is why would a woman want an abortion if she didn't feel pressured in to it?
I have read with interest on several threads here of women who had abortions because of some circumstance or other that made them come to their decision.
I have yet to hear one that had an abortion for no good reason or form of pressure of some sort.

The reason a lot of people don't want abortion on demand is because they feel that people, yes women, will just abort without any real need for it.
I say that as the way people might well look at it, its not a good argument for repeal.
The best argument for repeal are the stories of women who do feel pressurised and forced, by their own circumstances to have no other option but abort.

Some women have abortions because they don't want to be pregnant but they face massive judgement so aren't very vocal. But I don't buy this thing that women have abortions just because they can. Whatever your feelings about the pregnancy, physically a medical abortion is a painful and messy thing to go through, it's not just popping into your GP to take some tablets, it's the waiting for the tablets to work and the physical process that entails. It's not pleasant.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Edward M

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm sure that given enough force that anybody could be physically coerced into doing something they don't want to do. But it would require either the cooperation of the doctor or the doctor not to be aware. Given any consultation would involve just the patient and the doctor then the patient i think it is unlikely that they wouldn't spot that the woman isnt actually keen herself on the abortion. Or perhaps she has been so terrified by threats that she goes along with it. None of this a good reason for not allowing abortion. So what is your point?

My point is why would a woman want an abortion if she didn't feel pressured in to it?
I have read with interest on several threads here of women who had abortions because of some circumstance or other that made them come to their decision.
I have yet to hear one that had an abortion for no good reason or form of pressure of some sort.

The reason a lot of people don't want abortion on demand is because they feel that people, yes women, will just abort without any real need for it.
I say that as the way people might well look at it, its not a good argument for repeal.
The best argument for repeal are the stories of women who do feel pressurised and forced, by their own circumstances to have no other option but abort.

Hooks Golf Handicap

L.Jenkins wrote: »

Think this thread or similar needs a poll.

Asked for one yesterday but nothing yet, perhaps you could put up the Bat signal in the Mod cave

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106145002&postcount=7036

kylith

Edward M wrote: »

So basically you are saying no woman can be forced in to having an abortion?

She can be pressured, yes, but if she says to the doctor ‘I don’t want to do this’ they won’t perform the procedure, the same as any other elective procedure.

It may be the case that she is threatened by family or partner, but the final yes or no is hers. And in this day and age developed countries have enough social supports that withdrawal of family support isn’t a ticket to a workhouse any more.

Can you imagine the uproar if it was ever discovered that a doctor performed an abortion on a woman who had told him that she didn’t want it?

ohnonotgmail

Edward M wrote: »

So basically you are saying no woman can be forced in to having an abortion?

I'm sure that given enough force that anybody could be physically coerced into doing something they don't want to do. But it would require either the cooperation of the doctor or the doctor not to be aware. Given any consultation would involve just the patient and the doctor then the patient i think it is unlikely that they wouldn't spot that the woman isnt actually keen herself on the abortion. Or perhaps she has been so terrified by threats that she goes along with it. None of this a good reason for not allowing abortion. So what is your point?