kylith wrote: » So, you want to hear about how wonderful not having an abortion was, from women who never wanted to have an abortion in the first place? What about testimonials from women how were pressured into not having an abortion and how that has impacted on their lives and prospects? Here’s the thing: you could be marched into an abortion clinic at gunpoint but the second you walk into the procedure room and tell the doctor that you don’t want a termination they will not perform a termination on you. The decision to proceed is 100% with the woman.
AnneFrank wrote: » I'd like to hear from the thousands of women who were pressurised into having an abortion at a very vulnerable time in their life,and decided to keep their child,and are now a mother to an amazing child with a great future ahead.
Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: » Do you not think they will put the 12 week wording into the referendum rather than give themselves the power/problem of legislating ? A lot of TD's don't want to enact the legislation if repeal is passed. Also, giving the power to the Dail may put off potential repeal voters who are worried about it being pushed upwards over time.
One eyed Jack wrote: » What does or doesn't constitute a baby isn't defined by science, it's defined by social norms and cultural values. Have you ever thought to try that perspective on anyone who has lost a baby? I'm guessing telling them that they lose about 40 million skin cells a day isn't likely going to be of much comfort either. Don't be surprised if they ask you what's wrong with you. They're not being rude, they're genuinely curious. Painting yourself into a rather awkward corner there. If your only criteria is sentience, then it's understandable you would see no value in that which isn't sentient. However sentience isn't and has never been the determining criteria in determining to whom we assign human rights. Clue is in the 'human' bit, and it is that upon which value is predicated. Sentient rights are an entirely different philosophical argument.
Nettle Soup wrote: » nice_guy80 wrote: » I'm willing to help crowd fund a billboard campaign calling for people to vote to stop women having to travel to the uk "stop shoving the problem under the carpet" 5000 women have to travel abroad for proper health care I often wonder how pro-8th people would react if their daughter came home after going for an abortion in the UK on their own.
nice_guy80 wrote: » I'm willing to help crowd fund a billboard campaign calling for people to vote to stop women having to travel to the uk "stop shoving the problem under the carpet" 5000 women have to travel abroad for proper health care
volchitsa wrote: » Not easy, no, but surely if people are taking their children abroad to murder them we shoudo make an effort? Instead we actually changed the constitution to make it legal for them to do so,because the AG found that he could, and therefore had to, injunct C to stop her having an abortion abroad. So when it comes to cold facts, it doesnt seem like people really think it's anything like killing babies. I can't say for the Dublin bombings, though it may be something of a circular argument anyway, given the constitution, but it isnt true for the Omagh bombings, and it's very dishonest of you to present a report about an application for the unborn twins to be counted among the victims when that application was refused and their older sister, Maura, is officially the youngest victim at 18 months. I have a family member who died in the Omagh bombing, so I very much dislike people lying about it to further their own agenda.
Edward M wrote: » Wait till this one comes atcha.https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/anti-abortion-campaign-to-show-image-of-11-week-old-foetus-467059.html
Belfast wrote: » You could say with abortion pills and easy travel to countries where abortion is allowed that there are no practical steps that the state can take to protect the unborn children from abortion.
"destruction of unborn human life" could also cover a violent attack on the mother that results in the death of the unborn. I imagine violent attacks on the unborn would be getting the maximum sentence.
chalkitdown1 wrote: » I noticed this morning on my way out of Cork city that the big 'Save The 8th' billboards with the down syndrome lies on them have been replaced by Tesco ads. :pac: That didn't last long. I don't know how paying for ad space on billboards works but I was expecting to be looking at these eyesores right up to election day. Glad they've been replaced already. They'll probably be up again at some point.
seamus wrote: » I've seen that suggested before but it's just not possible. From the ideological viewpoint, it would be ridiculous - "Abortion is technically illegal in Ireland, but there are abortion clinics in every town that operate on the good grace of the Gardai not to prosecute them". But there's also a constitutional bar preventing such a non-criminal scenario to be set up. The constitution requires the state to defend the right to life of the unborn "as far as is practicable". This has the implication that a minor or otherwise inconsequential penalty for abortion would be a failure on the state's part to uphold the constitution - because the constitution requires that the state does everything reasonable to defend the right to life of the unborn. This is why the current penalty of 14 years is so severe and way out of proproportion even if you're pro-life; because a poorly written part of the constitution demands it.
The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.
] The Act also repeals sections 58 and 59 of the 1861 act;[29] these criminalise attempted or actual procurement of miscarriage, and assisting such procurement. It replaces them with a new offence of "destruction of unborn human life", with a maximum penalty of 14 years' imprisonment.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Life_During_Pregnancy_Act_2013
Unborn child adds to Dublin bomb toll Juno McEnroe November 23 2003, 12:00am, The Sunday Times The bombs that exploded on Parnell Street, Talbot Street and South Leinster Street on May 17 almost 30 years ago killed 26 people including a pregnant woman. Colette Doherty was days from giving birth to her baby when she was killed in the blast. Her unborn child is to be recorded as a victim of the bombing by Brian Farrell, the Dublin city coroner.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/unborn-child-adds-to-dublin-bomb-toll-dmh2lpjb8lw Unborn twins `raise Omagh deaths to 31'https://www.irishtimes.com/news/unborn-twins-raise-omagh-deaths-to-31-1.1100036
Belfast wrote: » or they could try some thing different approach. They could set the penalty for abortion to nil or a nominal fine. This could be done in the Dail without changing the constitution.
Belfast wrote: » They could set the penalty for abortion to nil or a nominal fine. This could be done in the Dail without changing the constitution.
seamus wrote: » I'd be very disappointed if they did. Because remember, this mostly isn't about the 12 weeks. It's about cases of rape, risk to the mother and fatal feotal abnormality. And they won't be limited to 12 weeks, because they can't be. So in order to properly capture everything, you either insert 500 lines into the constitution - making it incredibly difficult for voters to know what they're voting for, and leaving us wide open to decades of challenges on interpretation - or you insert a single empowering line into the constitution and those 500 lines of complication go into legislation.
dr.fuzzenstein wrote: » That's the point of some people all along. To them there is zero difference to aborting a weeks old foetus to grabbing a random child off the street and bashing it's skull in with a brick whilst laughing maniacally. The "abortion of children already born" argument is saying exactly that.
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Which option would you vote for were the referendum tomorrow ? No repeal Repeal & Dail to legislate
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