snotboogie wrote: » Why would being close to Dublin give them no chance? All of the major cities in the UK have smaller cities in their urban area London-Reading, Birmingham-Wolverhampton, Manchester-Bolton, Leeds-Bradford, Liverpool-Warrington. The closest population centre (over 50k) to Dublin is Belfast....
Shurimgreat wrote: » Most people (except a few extremists) agree there should be a healthy balance between the cities, towns and rural country life. Thankfully we don't live in a Stalinist type state where people are forced to live somewhere they don't want to. One off houses are not the cup of tea of most city folk and good luck to them.
cgcsb wrote: » The question isn't what people's 'cup of tea' is rather it's how Ireland should develop into the future in the general sense and every educated person would agree that the future is a larger population concentrated in smaller areas as the trend is globally.
wakka12 wrote: » I don't get the idea of forcing tiny towns like athlone to develop into something important It would be a lot more effective and beneficial to just build a new town at that stage with well planned zoning,road layout and everything else than pumping loads of money into some provincial town and trying to make its already established and small scale urban fabric something its not Places like athlone have no infrastructure or anything remarkable about to warrant large investment in it that wouldn't be more beneficial than starting a new town which could easily and very quickly grow to same size as athlone, but it'd be a lot more efficient town
snotboogie wrote: » How are you going to convince people to move to this new town? How are you going to convince companies to set up there? If you look at purpose built cities that grew rapidly over the last two hundred years or so, there are two ways to do it; 1. Move the entire function of the capital city to the new town, like Brasilia, Canberra or Washington DC. I would class this as politically impossible in Ireland. 2. You give the city legal or economic exemptions, like Dubai, Shenzhen or Las Vegas. What rules are available to be loosened?
dr.fuzzenstein wrote: » Because gradual or not, houses have a long life-span, this plan could take 100 years for a majority of houses to naturally end their life-cycle. You want it in 20 years? OK, we're back at "buy my house and give me a new one in Dublin city center, nah only loking, I'm not fcuking moving"
dr.fuzzenstein wrote: » Point 2 - there is a septic tank charge and there are inspections. Ireland style. I.e. there are something like 2 inspectors for the entire country and it will take 64000 years for them to inspect even close to most of the houses. The septic tank charge notice I binned and never heard from it again.
dr.fuzzenstein wrote: » Point 3 - Nah In the end, as I said, this will effect mostly new builds, or there could be a new drive to depopulate and desolate the countryside, with a new generation of abandoned houses, they could sit scenically beside the ruins of the famine cottages. Since it is policy to devestate the countryside anyway, I'm sure it would be grand now. This is just the same anto countryside circle jerk that comes along every now and then. You have a countryside, it is what it is and if you don't like it, Jesus, every country in the world has a countryside, you can't force people to live where YOU want, unless you're talking about China or Stalin's Russia.
dr.fuzzenstein wrote: » So let's import all the food along with all the fuel and anything else. This kind of idiotic boxed-in thinking will ensure Ireland will never be Switzerland or Norway, both of which have very nice countryside BTW
Deleted User wrote: » Again all stick, no carrot. Our population is urbanising, has been for decades and will continue to do so. Lots of people have been saying how great/terrible urban/rural living is but nobody is proposing practical ways to make the urban alternative more attractive.
Shurimgreat wrote: » You are completely Dublin-centric in your opinions. Its like you can't look beyond the Pale or something.
Shurimgreat wrote: » Do you accept Dublin is experiencing a massive shortage of housing? You cannot just snap your fingers and houses appear. It will take decades to build the houses required and it simply isn't going to happen given the incompetence of Dublin planners. At the same time, the more demand for houses, the more the cost of building land in Dublin goes up, meaning the cost of houses and apartments going up, well beyond the ordinary person. Rents also go up. Dublin is stuck in a vicious circle of limited/next to no supply and rapidly rising demand. I genuinely don't think the Dublin-centric brigade understand basic economic laws around supply and demand. I keep hearing the same wishy-washy nonsense about the need to build more houses, when clearly there is nowhere near enough being built. They don't understand the obstacles to more houses being built, the main obstacle being it takes years to build estates and apartment complexes, whereas it takes only a few months for new workers to move to Dublin, putting more pressure on limited supply. Watching the growing chaotic development of Dublin is like watching a car-crash in slow motion.
Shurimgreat wrote: » Yes, the national broadband roll-out is the cause of Dublin's badly planned chaos. :rolleyes: You really are clutching at straws.
cgcsb wrote: » I have detailed how I would issue 'carrots' in many previous posts but I'll reiterate them here: 1) implement a minimum density requirement for new development based on area. The poolbeg West SDZ which will accommodate 8,000 people in a centrally located location is a good start, more of the same, use Broombridge Industrial Estate and the massive area west of Inchicore. These developments cater for single people with small space requirements to 3 bed family requirements.
cgcsb wrote: » 2)A defunding, by government, of The Irish Georgian society, David Norris and An Taisce, and other anti-progress organisations all of whom have fought tooth and nail to banish City workers to Kildare.
cgcsb wrote: » 3) Rail, lots of it. Metro, DART underground and more luas lines.
Isla has been kept here since childhood – in a room, in a tower, in a city – like a princess in a dystopian fairy tale. She imparts stories down a microphone, or dreams, which her watcher records from a cluttered office and sometimes accompanies with music and visuals. These dreams, she is told, are being made for her beyond the towers. But that doesn’t explain why she has seen people jumping from them to their deaths
cgcsb wrote: » snotboogie wrote: » Why would being close to Dublin give them no chance? All of the major cities in the UK have smaller cities in their urban area London-Reading, Birmingham-Wolverhampton, Manchester-Bolton, Leeds-Bradford, Liverpool-Warrington. The closest population centre (over 50k) to Dublin is Belfast.... It's comparative though, Compare the size of London and Reading. Reding urban area population is 320,000 or 3% of London's 9,800,000. Similarly Drogheda's 41,000 is 3% of Dublin's 1,200,000
Tell me how wrote: » So what do we do with the vast swathes of the country that will have nobody living in them? Do we bother maintaining roads? Do we cut hedgerows and clear blocked drains?
Tell me how wrote: » My objection to the way society in Ireland has developed is the portrayal that the Dublin model is the pinnacle and everything else should support this.
Tell me how wrote: » I don't think all rural dwellers can expect houses with a shop, pub and post office across the road and a restaurant, hospital and concert venue within 3 miles but neither should they be packed in to matrix style impersonal boxes with "faux" community spirit that a lot of apartments really are.
Tell me how wrote: » As for the phrase "every educated person". That's just condescending.
Harry Palmr wrote: » snotboogie wrote: » How are you going to convince people to move to this new town? How are you going to convince companies to set up there? If you look at purpose built cities that grew rapidly over the last two hundred years or so, there are two ways to do it; 1. Move the entire function of the capital city to the new town, like Brasilia, Canberra or Washington DC. I would class this as politically impossible in Ireland. 2. You give the city legal or economic exemptions, like Dubai, Shenzhen or Las Vegas. What rules are available to be loosened? Milton Keynes which for all the jokes is a functioning and very successful large new town (250,000) shows the way. Find a location far enough away from the dominant population centre (London) to allow the town become it's own place while being close enough to major rail and road infrastructure to be viable economically from the start. Although it wasn't founded until 1967, MK was really still part of the post-war housing crisis solution for greater London. A greater Athlone could be sprung with the same approach, albeit the old town would be just that - probably an adjunct to New Athlone.
Harry Palmr wrote: » Milton Keynes which for all the jokes is a functioning and very successful large new town (250,000) shows the way.
Tell me how wrote: » This is beyond ridiculous. 8000 more people in to the busiest few Sq kilometres of the country.
Tell me how wrote: » Around your Vatican sized country? Sure, why not. Or maybe a mono-rail or drone taxi service.
snotboogie wrote: » The area has grown by 200k in 60 years in country with a population of 55 million and a feeder city with a population of 14 million. A proportionately similar sized city in Ireland would have a population of between 32k and 35k. To get a town the size of Milton Keynes in Ireland we would need to have about 5% of the country move there. How do you get that to happen?
cgcsb wrote: » What year are you posting from? Milton is all roundabouts and car centric development.
cgcsb wrote: » Why is that ridiculous? it means more people can live centrally, have better services and walk to work easily. Greater Dublin is significantly larger than the Vatican
Sam Russell wrote: » Building new towns sounds like a good idea. Adamstown - anyone?
Shurimgreat wrote: » If Dublin had the housing accommodation for more people, by all means put more people there. But piling tens of thousands more people into Dublin over the next few years, into a situation where there is already a critical shortage of accommodation is beyond insanity and can only make the current property crisis worse.
Shurimgreat wrote: » That is just another commuter town for Dublin and encouraged further urban sprawl. Any new urban counter balance in Leinster to Dublin would need to be a minimum of 50 miles away, aim to have it own university in the long run as this is often crucial to attracting FDI and hi tech companies, large industrial parks, a financial centre and so on. Government should encourage Dublin based companies to move much of their operations and HQs to this urban centre, through tax incentives or similar. Once this urban centre grows it should become self sufficient and not become yet another commuter base for Dublin. Most of all there should be further discouragement of new jobs or businesses setting up in the centre of Dublin, otherwise the vicious circle continues and gets worse.
cgcsb wrote: » We were discussing the Poolbeg West SDZ which will provide apartments for 8,000 people on a site that is currently vacant.
Sam Russell wrote: » Waterford would fit that requirement. Cork/Limerick axis would also be a useful area for expansion. Athlone is too small to be a base for anything.
Topgear on Dave wrote: » According to Sean Orourke on RTE radio, Athlone is to be announced as the capital of the midlands. Never mind Dublin.....Mullingar, Longford, Tullamore etc are not going to stand for that. Mayor of Mullingar on the radio to fight it now
Shurimgreat wrote: » Most of all there should be further discouragement of new jobs or businesses setting up in the centre of Dublin, otherwise the vicious circle continues and gets worse.
Shurimgreat wrote: » I think the University thing is a big factor in the success of an urban area. Galway relies heavily on the university for employment but also from the economic gains of thousands of students staying there. There probably is a case for a university in Waterford and to grow it in the long run. Certainly the focus needs to be taken off Dublin.
Topgear on Dave wrote: » According to Sean Orourke on RTE radio, Athlone is to be announced as the capital of the midlands. Never mind Dublin.....Mullingar, Longford, Tullamore etc are not going to stand for that. Mayor of Mullingar on the radio to fight it now :pac: "Absolutely does not stand up to scrutiny" This will turn into a copy of the crap plan from 15 years ago.
Sam Russell wrote: » Waterford has the Waterford Institute of Technology, which is a proto-University. It has a port that could be useful if there is a hard Brexit. It used to have Waterford Glass so has skilled workers. It has a Motorway to Dublin. It even has a greenway. What more could you want?
