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Child Item

Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

J C

I don't believe that a Christian can morally vote for unlimited abortion.

The Sixth Commandment is very simple and very clear ... 'Thou shalt not kill'.

It means that you cannot kill yourself or another Human Being, except in self defence (or the defence of another Human Being) where no other option is available.
This is the basis for all laws protecting the person and criminalising the killing of other people in Common Law Jurisprudence.

Induced abortion is ethically and morally wrong ... except where the life of the mother is directly threatened and there is no other option available to save her.

This is the current law in Ireland.

Voting to expand Irish Law to allow the unlimited killing of unborn children is not something that any Christian (or other monotheist, indeed) can do in conscience and in clear contravention of the Sixth Commandment of God.

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pilly

J C wrote:

What are you talking about? The Thailidomide scandal ... had nothing to do with any church.

More bold, yawn.

Yes it did involve the church when the nuns left the poor babies to die because they weren't deemed worthy of life. And didn't have any monetary value for them either.

J C

pilly wrote: »

Or indeed the thailidomide babies who were left to die because they were deformed.

What are you talking about?
The Thailidomide scandal ... had nothing to do with any church.

pilly

david75 wrote:

Let me guess!!

If it's typed in bold it must be true.

Water John

You have just opened at least two threads with the same post. Stop trolling.

david75

J C wrote: »

The Silent Scream is a factual documentary, showing ultra-sound images of an actual abortion ... and the unborn baby squirming in pain trying to get away from the abortion suction device that was literally tearing it limb from limb.
It isn't some fictional horror movie, as you suggest ... its a non-fiction movie on the horror that is an actual abortion.

Nothing deceptive, misleading and scientifically incorrect, about that.

Let me guess!!

It’s ON YOUTUBE and it’s therefore TOTALLY FACTUAL!

J C

pilly wrote: »

The level of hysteria that's being resorted to in here is madness. Now we're talking about euthanizing new-borns?

Try telling that to the Dutch and the Belgians ... where euthanizing new-borns and older children is legal !!!

pilly wrote: »

When all else fails resort to hysteria. Hyperbole of the highest order and disgusting carry on.

There is no hyperbole ... the thing is so outrageous that hyperbole couldn't exceed the reality.

... and has any person (who is in favour of repealing the 8th) condemned the legal euthanizing of children in Belgium and Holland?
... answer ... nobody, that I'm aware of.

... it is all part of the continuum that is the 'culture of death' ... starting with the killing of the unborn in abortion ... and ending with the killing of the born with euthenasia.

If the 8th is repealed unborn children will have no constitutional protection from being killed ... and all unborn children up to 12 weeks can be legally killed on demand. This isn't hyperbole either ... it is the fact of the matter of what is being proposed.

It will be a very sick society, if this comes to pass ... because we will then have a situation where frog-spawn (which has absolute legal protection) ... will be vastly more legally privileged than 12 week unborn children (who will have no legal protection).

How sick is that???

J C

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The Silent Scream is a factual documentary, showing ultra-sound images of an actual abortion ... and the unborn baby squirming in pain trying to get away from the abortion suction device that was literally tearing it limb from limb.
It isn't some fictional horror movie, as you suggest ... its a non-fiction movie on the horror that is an actual abortion.

Nothing deceptive, misleading or scientifically incorrect, about that.

... a nightmare ... and horrific ... I'll grant you that ... but only because abortion itself, is horrific.

J C

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Because the pro-abortion lobby in Ireland would have an apoplectic fit if the child lived.

... in both the US and UK children don't tend to survive late abortions anymore ... they are euthenased in the womb ... and checked for a heartbeat to make sure they are dead, before delivery.

... and the main reason cited for the repeal of the 8th is so that no Irishwoman will have to travel to England for any abortion ... and this logically implies the harmonisation of Irish abortion law with the English law ... if the 8th is repealed.

J C

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You're the one doing what you erroneously claim that I'm doing.:)

Stonedpilot

A Christian cannot support abortion in anyway, if they do they simply aren't Christian. Period.

Thou shalt not kill. It really is that simple.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Delirium wrote:

owney, please keep to the topic.

Listen, Mod, I'm finished. Thank you so much.

Delirium

MOD NOTE

owney, please keep to the topic.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

This spiritual plane we cannot see, feel, or touch, except with spiritual eyes.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

....... wrote:

This post has been deleted.

God doesnâ€™t operate on a physical plane, He operates on a spiritual plane, which we can never discern.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

pilly wrote:

I'm so surprised we agree on so much baloney.

I call myself eoinybaloney, but it's only irony.

pilly

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

What's human thinking got to do with God? Whatever you think, humanly speaking, is a million miles from God's thinking.

Never a truer word was uttered.

I'm so surprised we agree on so much baloney.

.......

This post has been deleted.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

....... wrote:

This post has been deleted.

What's human thinking got to do with God? Whatever you think, humanly speaking, is a million miles from God's thinking.

.......

This post has been deleted.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

....... wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Note I did not congratulate you.

.......

This post has been deleted.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Good man, JC, you're playing a blinder.

end of the road

pilly wrote: »

<snip> of the highest order, you have no interest in Christianity.

yes i am non-religious. however, religious, non-religious, and those inbetween have a duty to see passed our differences and beliefs to work together to insure acts of barbarity are prevented from being allowed where they don't exist, and long term, removed from places where they do.
united we stand, divided we fall, regardless of differences and beliefs.

pilly

end of the road wrote: »

i do yes. however, there are many varients of christianity. it is the religion and it's teachings that are relevant to this strand of the debate, not the specific church and the behaviours of people within those churches.
this is not a referendum about whethr you like the catholic church or not, dispite some elements of the pro-choice movement trying to make it out to be.

<snip> of the highest order, you have no interest in Christianity.

end of the road

pilly wrote: »

You do know which thread you're in don't you?

i do yes. however, there are many varients of christianity. it is the religion and it's teachings that are relevant to this strand of the debate, not the specific church and the behaviours of people within those churches.
this is not a referendum about whethr you like the catholic church or not, dispite some elements of the pro-choice movement trying to make it out to be.

pilly

end of the road wrote: »

well they aren't allowed to do it anymore thankfully, and they should never have been able to get away with it in the first place. it was barbaric. however, the catholic church have nothing to do with this debate, this is about humanity.

the thing is it didn't debunk it as the woman is now an adult and has formed her viewpoint. when she was unborn she would have been unable to state her wishes. it is assumed that a fetus wishes to live bar exceptional circumstances and thanks to the relevant law this woman survived her attempted abortion.

You do know which thread you're in don't you?

SusieBlue

end of the road wrote: »

the thing is it didn't debunk it as the woman is now an adult and has formed her viewpoint. when she was unborn she would have been unable to state her wishes. it is assumed that a fetus wishes to live bar exceptional circumstances and thanks to the relevant law this woman survived her attempted abortion.

Nope sorry that doesn't cut it, as you said we don't know either way what their wishes are so we can't assume, that would be wrong of us.

JC provided a link to show a woman who is pro-life after her experience, I provided one to show a woman who is pro-choice after hers.

Both are correct and both are relevant - and they prove that we don't know either way, so we can't insist they would all choose to live or choose to not have existed.

end of the road

pilly wrote: »

Whilst we're on the subject of euthanizing newborns however, the Catholic Church is the only organisation in Ireland that has a history of doing so. All the more reason for these decisions to be taken out of their hands.

well they aren't allowed to do it anymore thankfully, and they should never have been able to get away with it in the first place. it was barbaric. however, the catholic church have nothing to do with this debate, this is about humanity.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I literally just provided a link three posts up to debunk that theory. You are incorrect.

the thing is it didn't debunk it as the woman is now an adult and has formed her viewpoint. when she was unborn she would have been unable to state her wishes. it is assumed that a fetus wishes to live bar exceptional circumstances and thanks to the relevant law this woman survived her attempted abortion.

pilly

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Its the height of hypocrisy this is being used as a scaremongering tactic to frighten people into voting no, I wonder are their memories too short to remember the atrocities of the Tuam mother and baby homes, et al.

Or indeed the thailidomide babies who were left to die because they were deformed.

SusieBlue

pilly wrote: »

Whilst we're on the subject of euthanizing newborns however, the Catholic Church is the only organisation in Ireland that has a history of doing so. All the more reason for these decisions to be taken out of their hands.

Its the height of hypocrisy this is being used as a scaremongering tactic to frighten people into voting no, I wonder are their memories too short to remember the atrocities of the Tuam mother and baby homes, et al.