Bob_Marley wrote: » This is rubbish, if you decide you're not a catholic and you've left you're not one.
Bob_Marley wrote: » But the fact remains 80% claim they are Catholic, the fact you have a sectarian problem with others, is your problem, not theirs. The formal process for leaving the Catholic church was simplified in Ireland in recent years, now you don't need one, you simply just decide you've left and at census time put down Jedi keyboard manga SJW, or whatever you're into, just like many people who were once have Catholic done so. I left the cub scouts years ago, and there was no formal process there either. It doesn't mean I didn't or cannot leave and that I'm a member for ever, that's complete and utter rubbish.
Hannibal_Smith wrote: » The church doesn't recognise you as having left, from what I've read. I'm not authority on it. How do you leave the religion?
Hannibal_Smith wrote: » I think you've slightly missed what I'm saying. If they have been baptized etc, they are always a Catholic.
One eyed Jack wrote: » None of what you've just written has anything to do with the argument that people who are Roman Catholic who tick Roman Catholic on the census form are either being dishonest or hypocritical because they do not appear to practice the tenets of their professed faith.
suicide_circus wrote: » Catholicism is a great gig all the same. You can be an utterly godless bar steward your whole life and then on your death bed make your confession, receive absolution, make your profession of faith, receive the sacraments and then off to heaven.
Mrs OBumble wrote: » The church also doesn't claim you as a member, because they don't keep a register. The only count is taken by the state using data you provide. If you stop going they have no idea if you're dear or emigrated or whatever.
Hannibal_Smith wrote: » Is your baptismal cert not evidence of you on a register? The church keep a record of it. They also keep a record of you confirmation and marriage. Isn't the whole point of confirmation that you're confirming your faith? My parents would consider themselves Catholic, they believe in God etc, but don't attend mass. They'll still get a Catholic funeral though. I think?
Over 12,000 of the forms were downloaded from the site, but an official change to canon law in 2009 has made it impossible to formally defect from the church. The Archdiocese of Dublin said that it will maintain a register of those who have expressed an interest in defecting. However, without the baptismal certificate annotation, the group says that the register is irrelevant. Paul Dunbar, one of three people who had founded the CountMeOut website, said that trying to find ways around the 2009 decision by Pope Benedict XVI to abolish formal defection was like “repeatedly hitting our head against a brick wall”.
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » According to the church they are. But I am talking about the census. And the census asks what is YOUR religion. Not what groups might still consider you a member, especially against your will. It really is a short question on the census. Amazing the amount of confusion a simple question can cause. But it really does just ask "What is your religion?". It has literally NOTHING to do with membership. At all. If someone asked me what my hobby was, I would not say fishing. ONCE it was fishing, and in fact due to the work I did I was given a life time membership to a certain fishing club. They still consider me a member. I do not. And I would no longer tell anyone when asked "What is your hobby?" That the answer is "fishing". I no longer have any interest in fishing. It simply is not my hobby. Despite who considers me a member of their club. If I invented a religion, and I claimed anyone I say "blobby blobby" at is automatically a member for life, you would not put down my religion on the Census form.... I assume.... solely because I consider you a member of that religion? Because it is not YOUR religion, no matter how much I hop up and down demanding you recognise you are a member for life. Good, because I was not talking about that. I was solely replying to YOUR comment that they are "being honest to identify as Roman Catholic because they are still members of the Roman Catholic Church" And the point is simply that being a member of the church has nothing to do with the question the census actually asks. The question it ACTUALLY asks has nothing whatsoever to do with memberships. To take the same point from the other direction, if someone considers themselves a catholic, as in it is THEIR religion, then the church can excommunicate them all it likes. Such a person should STILL put down catholic on the census form.
Trey Quick Flame wrote: » A priest in Enniscorthy has said that parents who want their children to make their Confirmation must attend Mass. I think he's right. People taking part in sacraments that are completely meaningless to them seems very hypocritical to me, and insulting to the people to whom they have religious significance....
Odhinn wrote: » And if you tick the box in the census but ignore the various strictures about everything from sex to mass attendance?
Hannibal_Smith wrote: » ... If there is no leaving the religion, why shouldn't a priest confirm your kid?
beauf wrote: » I don't know why this is news. Priests have always said this. They will only know who is missing in a small parish. In larger parishes they won't know. They might be going to mass in another church. The only people who seem insulted this by seem to be those with no interest in the religion. If mass attendance is low and falling it would suggest most Catholics are not insulted by it. Maybe you are especially concerned for the devout. If so why??
splinter65 wrote: » ....then your exercising your entitlement as a citizen of a free society (thank God) to tick any goddamn box you like. Applies to every single question on the census.
beauf wrote: » For some bizarre reason I get the impression the church thinks a return to the 1950s mindset is a good idea. consolidate to the devoted and cast off the rest. It's likely to be a disaster which is those who want the church to disintegrate keep pushing this agenda.
Odhinn wrote: » ....It is dishonest though. Having ones cake and eating it.
kbannon wrote: » .... In terms of 1950s Ireland, people were less educated and servient to anything Rome or it's employees instructed. Why wouldn't they want a return of the "good old days"?
Odhinn wrote: » It is dishonest though. Having ones cake and eating it.
splinter65 wrote: » When you were baptized the details of your baptism were recorded in a register. The date, your name, your parents names, godparents, name of the priest etc. It’s a record of an event that happened. Logically, that record can not be removed or expunged because that would be pretending that the event never took place when.. it actually did. It’s pretty pointless pretending something that did happen didn’t. The baptismal register isn’t a list of members. There is no list of members. What would be the point in a list of members?
Hannibal_Smith wrote: » I never said there should be a list of members But there is a record of your confirmation also, it doesn't stop at baptism. If you want to be married in a church they ask for proof of baptism and confirmation to prove you're a valid member of the organisation, I would imagine? There is no register for people who want to leave Though? Because, it seems you can't? So if, according to the canon laws or whatever, you can't leave, how can a priest not confirm your kid?
splinter65 wrote: » What would be the point in a register for those who have left/want to leave? What would it be used for?
