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Help please, trying to decide between an Avensis vs Passat both 2011

Jim_bop

Hi all,

I've spent a lot of time reading this forum and there are some great answers. The time has come for me to upgrade, well replace actually, my trusty 2002 Mazda 6 1.8 petrol which was fatally harpooned by the NCT for specs of rust on the door sills.

So I've been looking for the last 3 to 4 weeks and now have what I believe to be 2 good options:
1) An Avensis with 48k km/30k miles terra 2.0 d4d, or
2) A Passat with 20k km/12.5k miles 1.6 TDi Bluemotion.

Both cars are 2011 and both are genuine but the avensis is 2 grand more to buy it.

The Toyota is a main dealer scenario, was bought there and serviced yearly there and sells fully serviced with a years warranty - regular customer of theirs.

I know the fellow selling the passat and he would look after his stuff reasonably well. It was only serviced twice as it never hit the intervals. Some parts of the car look like they were never used, like the boot and the back seats, kinda feels like a barn find. That said, it looks like it would need front tyres as I noticed cracks on the existing ones - they are first day tyres.

My heart says the passat but my head is telling me go with the avensis on the basis of reliability and running/maintenance costs.

We don't do high mileage, probably about 12k a year so I know I have to mind the diesel engine.

Any advice on running/maintenance costs, known issues/problems - (like the brake calipers on the Mazda), would be greatly appreciated when making my decision.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,
Jim

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MANSFIELD

Buy whichever car you prefer - drive both first and then decide . At the end of the day its your money .Best of luck with whatever you buy .

jcd5971

If its a 1.6 diesel passat, for the love of all that's divine and holy find out has the egr valve been done in it, and has the new update been applied.

The 1.6 are giving huge issues with that and if it hasn't gone yet it will in the not too distant to future, there's a thread here on boards somewhere about it as well.

dubrov

2k cheaper, lower mileage and slightly better condition would push me to the passat providing it hasn't had the update done

Toyotafanboi

jcd5971 wrote: »

If its a 1.6 diesel passat, for the love of all that's divine and holy find out has the egr valve been done in it, and has the new update been applied.

The 1.6 are giving huge issues with that and if it hasn't gone yet it will in the not too distant to future, there's a thread here on boards somewhere about it as well.

If there's 20k kms on it it'll hardly have went. Those 1.6's are prone to EGR trouble but so are lots of modern diesels so I wouldn't avoid it based on that alone if shopping for a 5-7 year old diesel car.

I'd probably avoid the Passat though tbh. They are a bit nicer than the Avensis visually and inside but they are a bit flakey reliability wise even EGR aside, maybe you wouldn't mind that for the sake of a nicer car but just be aware of it.

Jim_bop

dubrov wrote: »

2k cheaper, lower mileage and slightly better condition would push me to the passat providing it hasn't had the update done

Update? If you are referring to the vw emissions software update, yip he got that done alright.

jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote:

If there's 20k kms on it it'll hardly have went. Those 1.6's are prone to EGR trouble but so are lots of modern diesels so I wouldn't avoid it based on that alone if shopping for a 5-7 year old diesel car.

Toyotafanboi wrote:

I'd probably avoid the Passat though tbh. They are a bit nicer than the Avensis visually and inside but they are a bit flakey reliability wise even EGR aside, maybe you wouldn't mind that for the sake of a nicer car but just be aware of it.

I had one and ended up replacing egr expensive job.

Got a BMW instead, in for service last week, same mechanic and he told me in conversation he has done 6 more since mine in I'd say about 3months ish.

That's only on mechanic in rural Clare.

jcd5971

Jim_bop wrote:

Update? If you are referring to the vw emissions software update, yip he got that done alright.

Look obviously just my opinion but if the original egr is still in that car, and that update is done I wouldn't touch that car with a 100ft pole.

Toyotafanboi

jcd5971 wrote: »

I had one and ended up replacing egr expensive job.

Got a BMW instead, in for service last week, same mechanic and he told me in conversation he has done 6 more since mine in I'd say about 3months ish.

That's only on mechanic in rural Clare.

Sure diesel BMW's give no bother at all :pac:

Jim_bop

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

If there's 20k kms on it it'll hardly have went. Those 1.6's are prone to EGR trouble but so are lots of modern diesels so I wouldn't avoid it based on that alone if shopping for a 5-7 year old diesel car.

I'd probably avoid the Passat though tbh. They are a bit nicer than the Avensis visually and inside but they are a bit flakey reliability wise even EGR aside, maybe you wouldn't mind that for the sake of a nicer car but just be aware of it.

This is head vs heart struggle, I suppose I am trying to gauge the risks of taking on the passat over the avensis, not to say the avensis cars don't have their issues, a friend of mine spent 1k on repairing an electric handbrake on a 131 - fell outside warranty - not a happy camper.

How much is the EGR to repair and at what mileage do they start to go? I assume VW won't cover it.

It looks like it is fair to say that the passat will see me down the local garage a bit more by the sounds of it.

Is the 1.6 TDi Bluemotion more frugal than the 2.0 D4D, I am generally easy on the pedal but that may have to change slightly for the diesel I'm told.

Finally I forgot to ask, the avensis is a timing chain, and the passat is a belt, what are the intervals and rough cost of doing the timing belt on the passat?

Jim_bop

BTW Thanks to all for taking the time to respond!

George Dalton

If the Passat has had the update done then there will be a 2 year warranty on the EGR and various other engine components.

Timing belt interval on the Passat is approx 200k kms and cost wise about €450.

The Passat should be a nice car, particularly if it is Comfortline or Highline spec, even Trendline will be nicer than the Avensis Terra.

That shape Avensis has to be one of the nastiest cars you can buy, particularly in the Terra spec. They are reliable enough (apart from the odd parking brake issue) but clearly made to be as cheap as possible. There are better quality materials in my kettle tbh.

Toyotafanboi

The EGR can give trouble at any time really. If it's had the emissions update like you say, then VW will cover the cost of the replacement if it fails.

Aside from EGR's, they are fond of wheel bearings, suspension components, injectors, keys, clutches and so forth. That said the basics of the 1.6 diesel engine are good and it could do 4-500k kms with relative ease if you don't mind fixing one or two bits along the way.

I'm not saying those Avensis are the picture of reliability but it would probably be more reliable overall. That said, reliability isn't everything but it does help.

The belt on those Passats is due every 5 years or 210k kms so if it's never had one, it is overdue. Main dealer charge €449, independent €350-400.

greasepalm

i would be thinking annual repairs on avensis d4d would be cheaper and less issues for going back to garage.

bazz26

It does make you wonder why the original owners of both cars bothered buying diesel when they hardly used them to begin with. Both cars were available from new with petrol engine options. That would be a major worry for me, the original owner's lack of proper use for a diesel that as a result a new owner may end up with problems.

Jim_bop

bazz26 wrote: »

It does make you wonder why the original owners of both cars bothered buying diesel when they hardly used them to begin with. Both cars were available from new with petrol engine options. That would be a major worry for me, the original owner's lack of proper use for a diesel that as a result a new owner may end up with problems.

I asked Toyota this and they said faire point, but the avensis was serviced every year with them so they said it shoud ok. The just sold him a brand new avensis - diesel again. The guy is in his 80s apparently!

bazz26

A base model Avensis or Passat for that matter is a terrible place to be, there have to better options out there imo.

colm_mcm

To be fair the diesel and petrol were the same price to buy back then and the resale of petrol was very much in doubt.
There has to be other options out there. Even a Strata spec Acensis would be a much better option than a Terra.

Jim_bop

Ok, thanks to all, in summary it is staring to weight up as follows:

I need to find out if the timing belt was done when the emissions update was done to know when the 2 years warranty is up covering the EGR.

Passat is nicer and 2k cheaper but there is potentially about 600 of this gone straight away on a timing belt and 2 front tyres, plus it will hit me a little more year on year.

The Toyota was regularly serviced and therefore overall probably presents the more rational option. Both cars are basic spec but the passat has a more too it, even if it's only the alloys. The avensis feels a bit like the old carina e, sister had a 151 avensis sol and they are nice alright.

How are the DPFs in both of them?

The passat guy ended up driving his jeep all the time.

Jim_bop

There wasn't a lot sold back in those year, most of the cars up on DD are UK imports and that brings a whole lot of other concerns into the equation. I have sat in a number of T4s and they are nice but you don't know where they have been, I'd prefer to bring one in myself if I went the UK route, although there are some reputable garages after branching into this - www.carstore.ie. Still to get anything with the sort of mileage both of these carry would mean around 15k at least which is a few more than I was planning for.

I agree both are basic spec'd cars and carry little or no wow factor, especially the terra. But all the statas and lunas (irish cars) seem to have at least about 100k miles on them for the same money as opposed to 30 for the avensis and 12.5 for the passat.

bazz26

The mileage on those cars is extremely low for 7 year old diesels which is not the norm. I think you need to broaden your criteria other than just looking for one with tiny mileage. Average annual mileage for a diesel would typically be between 18k and 20k miles per year. Also the Irish have a habit of associating mileage with condition, low mileage does not always equate to better condition.

jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote:

Sure diesel BMW's give no bother at all

Got a petrol, no issues so far thank god.
I don't get the laughing emojis what point I made is so laughable.

jcd5971

Jim_bop wrote:

How are the DPFs in both of them?

Jim_bop wrote:

The passat guy ended up driving his jeep all the time.

To be fair my car ended up a disaster due to volkswagon garages rather than the car per sÃ©.

Egr went, got it fixed, they also said they regenerated the dpf and reset all settings and faults.

Dpf was ****ed though and in less than 2 weeks blew the new egr and turbo? I think it was.

Car had been in limp mode a few times rang garage was told its just new parts give it a good long drive.

Long story short the expense was huge and volkswagen tried everything to blame me, I ended up paying up front as I needed the car for work.

And sometime later with the help of the legal profession I got sorted.

Passat itself was a lovely car to drive very comfortable and lots of nice little features I loved it.

But final word I wouldn't get another as I can't afford the risk of it coupled with the appalling service I got from vw

Toyotafanboi

That sounds like a very unique scenario though. I wouldn't say every Passat owner is going through stuff like that.

jcd5971

Toyotafanboi wrote:

That sounds like a very unique scenario though. I wouldn't say every Passat owner is going through stuff like that.

100%

But the 1.6 is prone to dpf and egr issues.

If it was a newer model passat I've heard they are better from 2013 on, I wouldn't be as negative but 2011 is a bad place to be if it's still original parts.

If nothing else now op knows to ask a few questions on his next visit to the dealer.

Jim_bop

Again, thanks to all of you for taking the time to contribute. I found out that the timing belt hasn't been done and the emissions software update was applied in Feb of 2017. Therefore it looks as though the timing belt needs attention straight away (100k km or 5 years) or else one risks serious damage.

All is all, it looks as though the avensis is a safer bet. One more night to sleep on it!

Thanks again!

Interesting how there was so little or no negative feedback against the avensis.

ba_barabus

I've a 131 Avensis. I will say the interior plastics of the 11 REG feel world's apart. They're the same car but the quality and comfort are poor. But they are reliable. I can't argue with that.

Jim_bop

Hi all,

Just to say thank you for your advice, I went with the 11 reg Avensis in the end. I rang a friend of a friend who is a mechanic and he was Avensis all day long, wouldn't touch a first generation 1.6 Passat. Interestingly, he works for a very reputable main dealer who has recently branched into importing UK cars. He and his colleagues spend their time getting these mechanically showroom ready so to speak, he wasn't very encouraging about the quality coming in.

I could have got a lovely 12 reg luna for 900 more with 50k miles but it had cream suede seats that just wouldn't work with a young family, there was also a 131 strata for 1k more with like 70k miles. Alas, while they were nicer cars I figured I would never get the 900/1k back and the 30k miles was just too good to pass up.

Now, to keep that DPF healthy!

colm_mcm

interestingly, he works for a very reputable main dealer who has recently branched into importing UK cars. He and his colleagues spend their time getting these mechanically showroom ready so to speak, he wasn't very encouraging about the quality coming in

Just on this, this is more a reflection of the type of cars and the price level the garage is bidding on rather than the state of the UK used car market.

SBPhoto

bazz26 wrote: »

It does make you wonder why the original owners of both cars bothered buying diesel when they hardly used them to begin with. Both cars were available from new with petrol engine options. That would be a major worry for me, the original owner's lack of proper use for a diesel that as a result a new owner may end up with problems.

I agree completely with BAZZ on this, if the car has only done 20k since 2011
it definitely wasn't driven as a diesel should and could give rise to a lot of problems. both cars are a good example of people who should never have bought a diesel car in the first place, and at 12k a year for the OP i wouldn't even be looking at diesel.

colm_mcm

It’s bought now!