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Ireland 2040 plan "will kill rural Ireland"

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ireland-2040-strategy-will-kill-rural-ireland-according-to-coalition-825724.html

Deja vu anyone?

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snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

RTE Radio 1 discussion on this plan, 6th of February. Discussion is in the 2nd half of the file.

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/the-late-debate/podcasts/

Genuinely unbelievable stuff, those TD's completely abandon logic; lists off towns with populations of 5k that don't have a motorway, "you just want a motorway for every town in the country" "NO, I do not and I never said that". We should stop growth in Galway and instead move all new jobs to other smaller towns in the county. We should build a detailed motorway network from Sligo to Donegal across to Monogahan and Fermanagh but we should also build Metro North and Dublin Underground. Use Knock airport to "take the pressure off Dublin". Just unbelievable the crap they are putting forward and these are the people in power

Idbatterim

The real problem with this country , is the level of idiots that run for local and national government. That's why the country is a joke. Because literally all we have to elect, are clowns!

zetalambda

Idbatterim wrote: »

The real problem with this country , is the level of idiots that run for local and national government. That's why the country is a joke. Because literally all we have to elect, are clowns!

Why don't you stand for election and change all that?

[Deleted User]

Idbatterim wrote: »

The real problem with this country , is the level of idiots that run for local and national government. That's why the country is a joke. Because literally all we have to elect, are clowns!

Clowns who know which side of the bread is buttered, they won't change anything that will do them out of a job.

lisasimpson

All this negative tallk about rural ireland one off housing. Blaming the gaa etc i hate.more to rural ireland than the gaa. Loads of outdoor activities if you take time to find whats on offer local musical socities etc.Ive moved back to Tipperary never thought i would. Ive about a 30 min drive to work. It took me the same lenght if not longer to get to work living in Cork.
Rural ireland is in trouble but can be turned around not over night. A good few i went to school wih have moved back since starting families. One factor with them seems to be afforfable childcare and getting help out from families. Plus not everyone wants to live in cities..they are real homebirds to their locality.
Yes one off house maybe a problem but a slight planning change to develop housing in and on the edge of existing towns and villages and restore existing houses. Near where i grew up a number of cottages and empty house have been renovated and are fab..some real character to them. There is even a shortage of houses to buy or rent in Templemore surprisingly was only talking to someone about this last weekend.. Its a town along with Thurles that should be doing a lot better for themselves as its on the main Dublin to Cork/Limerick trainline and less than an hours drive to Limerick or kilkenny.
Facilities of school etc are already there and saves the stress of headaches of waiting list to get into school like whats happening in Dublin Cork and Limerick.
Also it vitial for rural ireland to get proper broadband. Not only to help existing business but many companies you can now work from home. I know one company in limerick where in some cases you can get an agreement to work 3 days from home and 2 in the office. This is an option for many IT finance companies nowadays and more and more will be offering.Its great for family life too more time with kids than stuck for hours in a car commuting..

As for this thig about public transport for rural ireland i fe the biggest issue is the existing rail network and the lack of investment to it over the years. We have too many of these single line tracks with limited speed. Take for example nenagh to limerick line which passes through the growing castleconnel bridhill.. Single line max speed is about 45 miles why would you take the train whenby car u can be in limerick in 20 mins. Lines like these should have been developed and upgraded years/decades ago. Yes the biggest contraint is the line doesnt pass through UL/Plassy campuses but it passes near LIT/Thomand Park (no stop)and with the planned developments in limerick city centre. If it was a decent line a lot more would would use it. Same with the rail line to the west...once got the train to ģalway from dublin never again

If Cork is to be developed to ease the pressures of Dublin serious money needs to be pumped into public transport. Its ways too dependant on car usage even to go from one side of the city to the other. To make public transport viable the need to build upwards needs to start too as well as the badly need M20 and stop fighting over where the city bounds should be.

Again another change to planning should be the whole area around objections and the lenght of time it takes to resolve. Just look at the whole apple case. Just plan wrong people who have nothing to do with an area holding up projects be it flood relief, data centres, solar farms

[Deleted User]

If this thread is anything to go by, the NDP is going to be a clusterfudge and will not address the elephant in the room, one off housing.

Someone posted about the German model, max 1km outside of the village or town. That one requirement, if implemented, would solve a massive amount of problems and allow rural towns and villages to become re-energised

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

If this thread is anything to go by, the NDP is going to be a clusterfudge and will not address the elephant in the room, one off housing.

Someone posted about the German model, max 1km outside of the village or town. That one requirement, if implemented, would solve a massive amount of problems and allow rural towns and villages to become re-energised

What would you do about the price of sites within a village/town or near to it? That would be the critical thing.

Theres plenty of space in my home town lyimg for years while people build in all directions in minor roads out the country.

Half the pubs and shops in the town are closed too, this might help it.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote:

If this thread is anything to go by, the NDP is going to be a clusterfudge and will not address the elephant in the room, one off housing.

One off housing is the source of all problems???

Tell that to everyone travelling from towns in the Midlands into Dublin every day.

roadmaster

Going by this thread it wont be long before the civil war kicks off again nearly a 100 years after the first

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

One off housing is the source of all problems???

Tell that to everyone travelling from towns in the Midlands into Dublin every day.

Building up, not out, will solve a lot of that, if the apartments are of a good quality and size

[Deleted User]

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

What would you do about the price of sites within a village/town or near to it? That would be the critical thing.

Not sure if I understand you. Same as now, those that can afford a site will buy one. Nothing changes there

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Building up, not out, will solve a lot of that, if the apartments are of a good quality and size

Yes that would be a good idea, but greed will prevent that from ever happening, what we'll end up with poky apartments far away from a good rapid transit system.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote:

Building up, not out, will solve a lot of that, if the apartments are of a good quality and size

Or better initiatives to have jobs closer to where the people are already.

I don't agree with the idea that everyone in the country must live inside the M50.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

Or better initiatives to have jobs closer to where the people are already.

I don't agree with the idea that everyone in the country must live inside the M50.

I dont think anyone wants everyone living and working inside the M50.

I hope a good plan will help to avoid this and take the pressure off Dublin a bit by supporting the other large urban areas (Cork/Galway/Limerick etc) to grow.

But I fully expect that the paln will be watered down to suit a pile of local councillors and in 20 years Dublin area will still be far ahead of the rest of the country.

Tell me how

Topgear on Dave wrote:

I hope a good plan will help to avoid this and take the pressure off Dublin a bit by supporting the other large urban areas (Cork/Galway/Limerick etc) to grow.

I'd very much like to see this happen.
Think there is huge opportunity should it be a good plan but I think there needs to be a willingness that Dublin growing (at the rate it has versus the rest of the country) is not necessarily a good thing.

[Deleted User]

Tell me how wrote: »

Or better initiatives to have jobs closer to where the people are already.

I don't agree with the idea that everyone in the country must live inside the M50.

Living and working near Athlone, I agree with you.
Commuting to Dublin and not having any chance of ever being able to afford to live there was a real pain.

Most towns in Ireland have a significant amount of dead space within the boundaries that could be re-purposed for mixed use housing.
Here in Athlone for example
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.423506,-7.927157,344m/data=!3m1!1e3

these areas are only about 5 minutes walk from the town centre.

wakka12

A Galway Limerick Cork 'axis' sounds nice in theory,because they line up nicely on a map, but theres like 80km gap between each city..theyll never grow enough that any kind of axial unity will be created to counter dublin

Sam Russell

wakka12 wrote: »

A Galway Limerick Cork 'axis' sounds nice in theory,because they line up nicely on a map, but theres like 80km gap between each city..theyll never grow enough that any kind of axial unity will be created to counter dublin

The M20 would mean a commuter living halfway could do the city within 30 mins or less either way. Of course, local conditions could make that unattractive but still - quite doable.

Tell me how

wakka12 wrote: »

A Galway Limerick Cork 'axis' sounds nice in theory,because they line up nicely on a map, but theres like 80km gap between each city..theyll never grow enough that any kind of axial unity will be created to counter dublin

They'll attract workers from their own surrounding areas. It's not being suggested as an axis with each dependant on the other but a simultaneous three pronged approach to alleviate some of the issues in Dublin while regenerating a large portion of the rest of the country.

I'd go further and say that there are certain businesses which could operate in isolation in the next layer of towns/cities below those mentioned and that there would be nothing wrong with incentivising such businesses to locate there.

marno21

wakka12 wrote: »

A Galway Limerick Cork 'axis' sounds nice in theory,because they line up nicely on a map, but theres like 80km gap between each city..theyll never grow enough that any kind of axial unity will be created to counter dublin

Cork to Limerick is approx 95km, less or more depending on what part of either city you are coming from. It's currently at best a 1hr30 journey and can be over 2 hours depending on road works, traffic and frequent crashes.

That journey would be a solid 47 minutes with a motorway. No questions about crashes at dangerous at grade junctions, nothing about traffic and nothing to worry about stop go systems.

The N20 is also at the minute jam packed with trucks, which are also hammering the 1800s era roadbed and wearing out the road. The amount of trucks on the road has to be seen to believed and they are a frequent cause of queues and tailbacks (not the truck drivers fault of course).

If I leave Limerick and head for Galway or Tuam I can expect to drive at the speed limit 98% of the time without any issues. If I leave Limerick for Cork I have no idea how long it'll take me to get there and how irritated I will be when I get there because it's very easy to get heavily delayed along the route.

Limerick and Cork are Ireland's 2nd and 3rd cities and there is no functional transport link between them in 2018. Look at how well they are doing in employment and industrial terms with no link, and imagine what could be done if they were connected.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

The M20 would mean a commuter living halfway could do the city within 30 mins or less either way. Of course, local conditions could make that unattractive but still - quite doable.

There are people commuting end to end at present, let alone from Charleville/Mallow to either city. The M20 will develop not only the cities at either end but the hinterland also. The existing road is massively detrimental to the area at the minute.

But then again most people on here know this, but central Government don't seem to agree.

John_Rambo

Tell me how wrote: »

One off housing is the source of all problems???

Tell that to everyone travelling from towns in the Midlands into Dublin every day.

The towns that are dying because of one off housing? Read all the posts on this thread properly please.

marno21

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/this-week/

Discussion on the National Planning Framework on This Week today. Around 13 minutes into the Leo Varadkar file.

Tell me how

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/this-week/

Discussion on the National Planning Framework on This Week today. Around 13 minutes into the Leo Varadkar file.

Be interesting to see what how the funds in the infrastructure investment plan are divvied out on Friday.

cgcsb

bk wrote: »

Such a route would do nothing to remove the majority of motorists who are commuting into Cork City from North Cork. It would just be another idiotic WRC.

We need the M20 and we need it now.

While I agree the M20 is needed, we can have direct Cork-Limerick trains running in a couple of weeks with a very small investment. Unlike the WRC, you are connecting Cork(4 times the size of Galway) to Limerick and the service would be very fast and reliable, sharing 99% of the route with Dublin bound trains. It could offer journeys much quicker than road journeys, something that the wrc cannot do. It's something that should be done immediately. The motorway will take years.

cgcsb

snotboogie wrote: »

Genuinely unbelievable stuff, those TD's completely abandon logic; lists off towns with populations of 5k that don't have a motorway, "you just want a motorway for every town in the country" "NO, I do not and I never said that". We should stop growth in Galway and instead move all new jobs to other smaller towns in the county. We should build a detailed motorway network from Sligo to Donegal across to Monogahan and Fermanagh but we should also build Metro North and Dublin Underground. Use Knock airport to "take the pressure off Dublin". Just unbelievable the crap they are putting forward and these are the people in power

Use knock airport? for who? pilgrims?

cgcsb

Deleted User wrote: »

If this thread is anything to go by, the NDP is going to be a clusterfudge and will not address the elephant in the room, one off housing.

Someone posted about the German model, max 1km outside of the village or town. That one requirement, if implemented, would solve a massive amount of problems and allow rural towns and villages to become re-energised

As close to a silver bullet as possible, and quite a decisive and simplistic rule. The shouting will happen because Irish villages don't have legally defined boundaries, so where that 1km is measured from....

cgcsb

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

What would you do about the price of sites within a village/town or near to it? That would be the critical thing.

Theres plenty of space in my home town lyimg for years while people build in all directions in minor roads out the country.

Half the pubs and shops in the town are closed too, this might help it.

Id say the number of self builds would tumble, rather it'd be developers building large estates in towns.

Tell me how

cgcsb wrote:

Use knock airport? for who? pilgrims?

I'd say the multinational businesses in Sligo, Mayo and Galway would rather if they had options out of somewhere other than Dublin.

Dublin is the biggest city in Ireland, by a long way. That doesn't mean you discount the rest of the country and the potential that exists there.

cgcsb

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I dont think anyone wants everyone living and working inside the M50.

I hope a good plan will help to avoid this and take the pressure off Dublin a bit by supporting the other large urban areas (Cork/Galway/Limerick etc) to grow.

But I fully expect that the paln will be watered down to suit a pile of local councillors and in 20 years Dublin area will still be far ahead of the rest of the country.

It'll probably transpire that the rural TDs will succeed in getting some sweeties for their constitutents. Cork and Limerick will crumble and 60% of the pop will live in Meath and Kildare in 2040.