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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

J C

I don't believe that a Christian can morally vote for unlimited abortion.

The Sixth Commandment is very simple and very clear ... 'Thou shalt not kill'.

It means that you cannot kill yourself or another Human Being, except in self defence (or the defence of another Human Being) where no other option is available.
This is the basis for all laws protecting the person and criminalising the killing of other people in Common Law Jurisprudence.

Induced abortion is ethically and morally wrong ... except where the life of the mother is directly threatened and there is no other option available to save her.

This is the current law in Ireland.

Voting to expand Irish Law to allow the unlimited killing of unborn children is not something that any Christian (or other monotheist, indeed) can do in conscience and in clear contravention of the Sixth Commandment of God.

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J C

pilly wrote: »

I'll have to look it up tomorrow, I'm off to have rampant unprotected sex all night.

Good for you ... enjoy !!!!:)

Sounds like you might be compensating for something ... hope it doesn't end prematurely for you!!!:eek:

J C

recedite wrote: »

You want a link to the future? Buy a DeLorean :pac:
BTW I said if the 8th was repealed these tests would become available here, so there are still a few hurdles to cross.

You don't need a DeLorean ...according to the New York Times, these are available as home tests, like pregnancy tests ... as well as being routinely used by Europen doctors ... so, the future is apparently right here right now.

The 8th never banned genetic testing ... and its used routinely nowadays in Ireland.

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
Were going to have unlimited abortion up to 12 weeks ... and probably well beyond 12 weeks, (in line with the recommendations of the Citizens Assembly for 22 weeks) once the dust settles if the 8th is repealed.

pilly
Oh I'm glad you accept that we're going to have abortion.

You misssed the word 'if' in my post.

... and its a very big (and getting bigger) IF !!!

recedite

pilly wrote: »

Since you're the one looking for links can you please show me one that backs up your emphatic statement that this test will be routinely available in Ireland?

You want a link to the future? Buy a DeLorean :pac:
BTW I said if the 8th was repealed these tests would become available here, so there are still a few hurdles to cross.

pilly

J C wrote:

... I am asking somebody who made an unfounded allegation of lying against me to stand up their allegation ... and its very much within the rules of civil debate. ... I have also given them the option of withdrawing their unfounded ad hominem allegation.

I'll have to look it up tomorrow, I'm off to have rampant unprotected sex all night.

J C

pilly wrote: »

I think this is called baiting and is against the rules on boards.

... I am asking somebody who made an unfounded allegation of lying against me to stand up their allegation ... and its very much within the rules of civil debate.
... I have also given them the option of withdrawing their unfounded ad hominem allegation.

By their silence they have shown that they were lying about me.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

pilly wrote:

Oh I'm glad you accept that we're going to have abortion.

I doubt it very much. After all, the Lord is on our side.

pilly

J C wrote:

Were going to have unlimited abortion up to 12 weeks ... and probably well beyond 12 weeks, (in line with the recommendations of the Citizens Assembly for 22 weeks) once the dust settles if the 8th is repealed.

Oh I'm glad you accept that we're going to have abortion.

Full stop

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

pilly wrote:

Also I think taking the lords name in vain might be against the rules as a Christian.

I am not taking the Lord's name in vain. I am invoking the Lord's name to enlighten you.

J C

pilly wrote: »

Nope. I'm talking about Ireland here, others can talk about other countries all they like, doesn't make a jot of difference.

Since you're the one looking for links can you please show me one that backs up your emphatic statement that this test will be routinely available in Ireland?

Why will it not?

Were going to have unlimited abortion up to 12 weeks ... and probably well beyond 12 weeks, (in line with the recommendations of the Citizens Assembly for 22 weeks) once the dust settles, if the 8th is repealed.

Quote:-
"The (gender) tests are not regulated by the Food and Drug Administration because they are not used for medical purposes, a spokeswoman said, but the agency is investigating the explosion of home genetic tests like these and genome-sequencing kits."

"The new study found that to be reliable, the sex-determination tests had to be performed after at least seven weeks of gestation. Most tests that were highly accurate were conducted on a mother’s blood, not urine. And certain rigorous laboratory procedures had to be followed. For the blood tests, women prick their fingers and send blood samples to labs. If the Y chromosome is detected, the fetus is male. Absence of a Y chromosome would probably mean the fetus is female, but could mean that fetal DNA was not found in that sample."

Of course, this could never happen in Ireland ... NOT!!

pilly

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote:

Oh, for God's sake! Would you ever put your brain into action?

I think this is called personal abuse and is against the rules on boards.

Also I think taking the lords name in vain might be against the rules as a Christian.

pilly

J C wrote:

Come on Nu Marvel ... stand up your allegations of lying. ... or withdraw them.

I think this is called baiting and is against the rules on boards.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

pilly wrote:

Of course because dogs are living breathing beings. Silly question.

Oh, for God's sake! Would you ever put your brain into action?

pilly

J C wrote:

Nobody is arguing this except yourself. ... but if somebody suggested that perfectly dogs should be routinely put down because their owners didn't want them anymore, the condemnations for such callous behaviour would (rightly) roll in!!

Of course because dogs are living breathing beings. Silly question.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

pilly wrote:

Never was a user name more apt.

Did you ever hear of irony?

J C

J C wrote: »

Come on, I'm calling you on this, Nu Marvel ... please stand up your unfounded lies about me.

Come on Nu Marvel ... stand up your allegations of lying.
... or withdraw them.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Do you not see the miracle of conception?

pilly

recedite wrote:

Your question should be "will this test become freely available if the 8th is repealed". In which case, the answer would be yes.

recedite wrote:

No, there's not much point in having the test in a country that will not allow the abortion based on the result.

recedite wrote:

So are you going to apologise now, for your previous distortion of the facts?

Nope. I'm talking about Ireland here, others can talk about other countries all they like, doesn't make a jot of difference.

Since you're the one looking for links can you please show me one that backs up your emphatic statement that this test will be routinely available in Ireland?

recedite

pilly wrote: »

Is this test freely available in Ireland?

No, there's not much point in having the test in a country that will not allow the abortion based on the result.

Your question should be "will this test become freely available if the 8th is repealed". In which case, the answer would be yes.

So are you going to apologise now, for your previous ignorant distortion of the facts?

pilly wrote: »

You can't tell the sex by 12 weeks. You guys really need some biology lessons.
You're looking at cartoons too long.

J C

pilly wrote: »

It's good to see we're back to the but but but arguments. I haven't heard of anyone marrying their dog yet, has anyone else?

Nobody is arguing this except yourself.
... but if somebody suggested that perfectly dogs should be routinely put down because their owners didn't want them anymore, the condemnations for such callous behaviour would (rightly) roll in!!

pilly

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote:

The is no but but. Abortion is wrong, full stop.

Never was a user name more apt.

J C

NuMarvel wrote: »

Considering you continued lying about the Assembly's recommendations after your error was pointed out to you, I see no reason to trust your predictions about what will happen to them after repeal.

Come on, I'm calling you on this, Nu Marvel ... please stand up your unfounded lies about me.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

pilly wrote:

It's good to see we're back to the but but but arguments. I haven't heard of anyone marrying their dog yet, has anyone else?

The is no but but. Abortion is wrong, full stop.

pilly

It's good to see we're back to the but but but arguments. I haven't heard of anyone marrying their dog yet, has anyone else?

J C

smacl wrote: »

I don't find abortion troubling. What I do find repugnant is people trying to tell pregnant women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. Probably worth noting where sex selective abortion takes place it is typically at the behest of the woman's husband who is trying to preserve his name through the male line. The choice to abort in this case is also one that men seek to take from pregnant women. Does that trouble you?

It all troubles me deeply ... as it should any right thinking person ... and its just as wrong to selectively abort a boy on the basis of him being somewhat more likely to have genetic issues leading to disability.

The question is are you only selectively troubled by what is happening in the growing anti-life culture out there?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

J C wrote:

Please stand up your scurrulous allegartions right now ... where did I lie about the Citizens Assembly recommendations?

J C wrote:

They're so radical ... it would be almost impossible to exaggerate them.

What right has an assembly to decide what is right or wrong?

J C

NuMarvel wrote: »

Considering you continued lying about the Assembly's recommendations after your error was pointed out to you, I see no reason to trust your predictions about what will happen to them after repeal.

Please stand up your scurrulous allegartions right now ... where did I lie about the Citizens Assembly recommendations?

They're so radical ... it would be almost impossible to exaggerate them, anyway.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

You don't understand abortion. If you did, you wouldn't send that post.

J C

end of the road wrote: »

what is being said is not irrelevant as it is the long term that is being discussed rather then the here and now, and there is the potential for such services to be offered in the long term once the 8th is repealed. so it is vital that long term possibilities are discussed, as much as some wish otherwise. everything is up for debate now, as otherwise there won't be the opportunity if the 8th is repealed.

Its not 'long term' ... these tests are currently available and are routinely used by European doctors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/health/10birth.html

NuMarvel

J C wrote: »

The Citizens Assembly ... 'went over the top' and came up with recommendations so radical that the politicians judged they wouldn't be passed by the electorate ... so they diluted them down in order to get the 8th repealed.

Of course, if the 8th is repealed ... they then can revisit the proposals of the Citizens Assembly ... and can implement them all ... and more if they want to.

Considering you continued lying about the Assembly's recommendations after your error was pointed out to you, I see no reason to trust your predictions about what will happen to them after repeal.