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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Autochange

Bear markets
Fud
Regulation
Wall Street manipulation
The supposed tether ticking time bomb

What are your thoughts? Have you cashed out? Have you been buying the dips?

MOD NOTE:
Its good to see healthy debate and discussion taking place and I am sure every supporter of cryptocurrency and blockchain can agree that the contrarian viewpoint is worthwhile reading, if only to act as an anchor and help prevent investors from getting carried away in an echo chamber of "everything is wonderful, just keep going"

However, there have been a few reported posts recently which I did not action as I wanted to see the thread level out itself rather than start forcing viewpoints and I have been in two minds about that decision.

I'm not going to single any posters out but I'm going to ask that all posters read the forum charter and I want to point out that it was established years ago in the Television forum, that dropping in on a forum to tell the followers of that forums topic (in that case a particular tv show) that it was all crap and only idiots watched it etc etc was the exact definition of being a dick and attempting to troll. I know this because I was the mod of the forum at the time. Now look at the forum charter again.

There is pretty much one rule on this forum : if you cannot discuss in a civil manner, and I mean discuss, not soapbox or attack, then you have absolutely no business posting here and I have no qualms about removing your ability to do so.

This forum is for people that have in interest in cryptocurrencies, blockchain and their application to financial investments. that can be positive or negative but if you really feel the need to start pulling out memes / hiding insults in imaginary hashtags / attacking personalities or just generally being a dick there are other forums you can post in where I will let the local mods determine if it is within the scope of allowable behaviour. Here, it is not.

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grindle

seannash wrote: »

Why wouldn't you cash out and buy back in at lower prices. Even if you got back in after an hour your increasing your stake

You may or may not.
You'd be guessing. BTC could hit $1k and ETH $100, you'd be guessing and hoping for it to happen.
For people who like adding risk to their risk, sell and hope to buy back. For people who like to reduce their risk, just buy and reduce DCA.

[Deleted User]

soirish wrote: »

Great reddit, recommended:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7vga1y/i_will_tell_you_exactly_what_is_going_on_here/

From the article :

"This is an example to help illustrate why prices aren't driven by money invested, but rather consensus and opinion. Lets imagine the following exists (we will use bitcoin as an example, but this is how everything on the planet works)"

no it isn't! It is how bitcoin works because bitcoin has no intrinsic value.

It is NOT how the market for housing, or pizza, or software, or any consumer good works. Those things can be subject to irrational exuberance and bubbles but they have a floor determined by supply and demand, and there is always demand because they have utility.

Economics 101.

asteroids over berlin

you have got a wake up call, you should of only invested what you can afford to lose - if that investment multiplied and you made a significant amount and didn't take a profit or let it ride and it isn't working out (yet), quit your bitchin, you make decisions every second of your life, some are good, some are bad, some mediocre. Ride the storm, the good projects are going nowhere, the **** ones will fail be it today or in a couple of years. At the end of the day, this is no game, as you are realising, you research and then invest, don't just jump on the bandwagon, like XRP at $3, what an insane investment. It will come good, who knows when but i firmly believe it will, my own portfolio is down 2/3 and it is a hell of a lot of money, i have now sold partial amounts to fund further investments at this bargain basement time! Either sell your positions and bugger off or sit and be strong! Lock this thread!!

rapul

Im still good no bitching going on here

luckily enough I sold alot of litecoin and ethereum the other day and bought nearly double back just now ,its a good day

soirish

Deleted User wrote: »

From the article :

"This is an example to help illustrate why prices aren't driven by money invested, but rather consensus and opinion. Lets imagine the following exists (we will use bitcoin as an example, but this is how everything on the planet works)"

no it isn't! It is how bitcoin works because bitcoin has no intrinsic value.

It is NOT how the market for housing, or pizza, or software, or any consumer good works. Those things can be subject to irrational exuberance and bubbles but they have a floor determined by supply and demand, and there is always demand because they have utility.

Economics 101.

NO currency has intrinsic value. Currencies have extrinsic value, that is to say paper money have value only because people trust the Central Bank issuing them. Now what happens when people lose trust in their paper money?

[Deleted User]

soirish wrote: »

NO currency has intrinsic value. Currencies have extrinsic value, that is to say paper money have value only because people trust the Central Bank issuing them. Now what happens when people lose trust in their paper money?

Here we go again.

Yes, in one sense currencies have no intrinsic value. However, governments recognise them as legal tender, enforce their acceptance, and spend and tax in those currencies.

If you want to live in the USA, you need dollars. If you want to run a business in the USA, you need dollars (and as a few people are now discovering, you are probably best off billing in dollars rather than crypto-currency). If you want to buy things from companies based in the US, you need dollars.

Therefore, the currency has intrinsic value in the sense that in order to LIVE and do business it is required in the United States of America. To be fair, crypto currencies also have some value in the sense that if you want to make hidden and illegal transactions online, and want to speculate on an asset, you might want to own them. But at the same time, there are many crypto currencies out there which can serve that need, so it's hard to know where the floor is. On the other hand there is only one dollar.

And by the way, the usual 'Zimbabwe' example proves the point. Failed state, failed currency. The value of currency is rooted in the political and economic power of the state that backs it.

Again, economics 101

soirish

This is really off-topic and I won't participate. Thanks!

dubrov

Orinoco your points have already been addressed repeatedly in this thread.

Currency values are based on trust. Politics and economy are a major factor in that trust.

It looks like you may have skipped a few classes in economics 101.
Maybe it is time to retake the course.

JohnnyFlash

Deleted User wrote: »

Here we go again.

Yes, in one sense currencies have no intrinsic value. However, governments recognise them as legal tender, enforce their acceptance, and spend and tax in those currencies.

If you want to live in the USA, you need dollars. If you want to run a business in the USA, you need dollars (and as a few people are now discovering, you are probably best off billing in dollars rather than crypto-currency). If you want to buy things from companies based in the US, you need dollars.

Therefore, the currency has intrinsic value in the sense that in order to LIVE and do business it is required in the United States of America. To be fair, crypto currencies also have some value in the sense that if you want to make hidden and illegal transactions online, and want to speculate on an asset, you might want to own them. But at the same time, there are many crypto currencies out there which can serve that need, so it's hard to know where the floor is. On the other hand there is only one dollar.

And by the way, the usual 'Zimbabwe' example proves the point. Failed state, failed currency. The value of currency is rooted in the political and economic power of the state that backs it.

Again, economics 101

But, but, lambos, new paradigm, whitepaper, used to work for Amazon, great team, roadmap, Chinese New Year, FUD, partnership with Microsoft etc etc.

Buying crypto is gambling for the vast majority of punters and mugs. The house is strongly stacked against you.

Bob24

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And by the way, the usual 'Zimbabwe' example proves the point. Failed state, failed currency. The value of currency is rooted in the political and economic power of the state that backs it.

Yes, the value of a currency is to a large extend tight to the economic performance, political stability, and generally the success of the country issuing it.

Don’t know if intrinsic value is the right phrase to describe that link, but at least it means that as long as the country is not becoming a failed state there is a floor value for its currency (and also a ceiling as if there is too much speculation the country will enact policies to stabilise its currency as Switzerland did for some time in the recent past). The same can not be said about crypto: there is neither an upper or a lower limit, and the value is pretty much just set by where people think it is going rather than being tight to a real world country/entity. Hence the extreme volatility.

[Deleted User]

soirish wrote:

NO currency has intrinsic value. Currencies have extrinsic value, that is to say paper money have value only because people trust the Central Bank issuing them. Now what happens when people lose trust in their paper money?

It's really not as simple as you imply. Governments help stabilise real currency. China have bought dollars & euro at times when there was pressure on each currency. Governments can increase or decrease interest rates to help stabilise their currency.

[Deleted User]

soirish wrote: »

This is really off-topic and I won't participate. Thanks!

It really, really isn't off topic if people who are concerned are wondering what the floor for bitcoin and crypto generally might be. In fact, it is what everyone should know and understand, even if they don't want to hear it.

Nika Bolokov

soirish wrote: »

NO currency has intrinsic value. Currencies have extrinsic value, that is to say paper money have value only because people trust the Central Bank issuing them. Now what happens when people lose trust in their paper money?

The economy collapses. Nothing happens when Bitcoin falls

aido79

rapul wrote: »

Have to agree with Tinder ,absolute keyboard warriors hopping off this thread and for what reason who cares but come on lads there is discussion and then just blatent negative posts and you are getting very good answers from some but choose to just say no no I'm right your wrong and repeat the same ****e over and over again and I can see some of you are almost looking for a fight,we get it you think we're all foolish for investing in cryptos but you know in a few years time I hope it's the other way around and we are all just laughing at you literally laughing cause we made wise investments cause I'm sure you know we don't just buy on a whim ,would you bet on a team or horse without a bit of study or perhaps insight,I highly doubt it ,you have all just turned this thread into a joke

That's the longest sentence I have ever read...but I agree with everything in it.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

.G.

JohnnyFlash wrote:

Buying crypto is gambling for the vast majority of punters and mugs. The house is strongly stacked against you.

If only the tax man saw it that way!

KT10

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

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ZeroThreat

superg wrote: »

If only the tax man saw it that way!

well if you lose your shirt there's nothing to tax, now is there?

nuac

ZeroThreat wrote: »

well if you lose your shirt there's nothing to tax, now is there?

Assuming you can offset gains in one year with losses in following years.

May be difficult if moving between krypto and fiat within that period

brendanwalsh

Very risky selling and hoping it drops lower. You can lose money and coins doing that. Time to buckle down now for the long night ahead. The butcher has had his fill and has plenty stored away for the long winter ahead. For the rest of us who have survived, it's time to wrap up warm. The cold will kill you long before the starvation sets in.

Bob24

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Very risky selling and hoping it drops lower. You can lose money and coins doing that.

You can also lose money by holding if it keeps dropping.

Both option are risky (which one is the most risky is hard to tell to be honest) ... some will win and some will lose. But we know that when talking about highly volatile assets: high risk and high potential reward. So someone thinks it will keep dropping they should sell, and if someone thinks it will rebound they should hold it even buy more.

Dades

Buying and selling in dips is a coin toss.

Last week I sold ETH ahead of a big dip that happened, and then bought more ETH with the proceeds during the dip - Wolf of Wall Street!

This week I tried to do the same thing and it dropped like a stone just after I bought back in - Nick Leeson!

Like leaves on the wind.

[Deleted User]

At least you can see the main stock markets taking a beating.

It's all speculation to me but I'd feel worse if I had crypto & it was only cryptography getting a beating.

Blacktie.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

At least you can see the main stock markets taking a beating.

It's all speculation to me but I'd feel worse if I had crypto & it was only cryptography getting a beating.

Must feel strongly about it if it deserved 3 posts.

Bob24

Blacktie. wrote: »

Must feel strongly about it if it deserved 3 posts.

To be fair it happened to me before for the mobile website to post the same thing twice even though I only submitted the post once ;-)

Pintman Paddy Losty

You can tell something is a bubblicious pyramid scheme when mere criticism of the accepted mantra of the adherents to the scheme results in a dose of vitriol.

The similarities between how people view their coins here and people heavily invested in property in Ireland circa 2007 are stark.

I'm reminded of when Bertie pondered why people who spoke down the property market didn't just kill themselves if they were so negative. Anyone with a counter opinion is just jealous and bitter of course.

I suppose the major difference is that although the housing bubble of the 00s was certainly a bubble, at least people will always need to live in a house. At least it has some utility. Bitcoins utility boils down to buying drugs and kiddie porn.

[Deleted User]

Blacktie. wrote:

Must feel strongly about it if it deserved 3 posts.

I don't have a stammer I swear.

It was a glitch in the matrix. Deleted two.

Selik

Positive news from the sec hearing. Expect lots of green shortly !

scamalert

stock penny market is what it is :cool: theres nothing online in last few years that would make someone %3000 percent returns on smth that literally doesn't exist or has no real world usage.

I see ICO's exploding left and right with shipping contrainers stacked with asics, mines in caves to keep temps low :pac: and other ICO's that are based on some nut ideas.

fact it no one uses it as currency anyone in the game is because of making actual $$$ from nothing its even useless as money transfer since costs and volatily is so rapid by the minute it reaches other end it could be worth 10% up or down, hassle with cashing out is utter pain.

Everyone claims its such a new generation technology but in 7 years time we only seen that's its like slots online. the very core idea that one needs to use massive amounts of power to solve nothing for reward which is digital breaks any economical fundamentals.

its a gamble at best where you need sucker to sell it to and find exchange which will give you actual cash for it.

sReq | uTeK

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

You can tell something is a bubblicious pyramid scheme when mere criticism of the accepted mantra of the adherents to the scheme results in a dose of vitriol.

The similarities between how people view their coins here and people heavily invested in property in Ireland circa 2007 are stark.

I'm reminded of when Bertie pondered why people who spoke down the property market didn't just kill themselves if they were so negative. Anyone with a counter opinion is just jealous and bitter of course.

I suppose the major difference is that although the housing bubble of the 00s was certainly a bubble, at least people will always need to live in a house. At least it has some utility. Bitcoins utility boils down to buying drugs and kiddie porn.

And if people HODL that property in 2007 chances are they're fine now right. So what you're saying is society as a whole is fairly retarded? and we just continue to do the same **** over and over again. So what you're REALLY saying is hey...there is a pattern here and smart people can make money.

GORSH... I do hope i'm one of those smart people.