fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: » There is no situation where you are allowed to kill the unborn. In the case of a mother's life, would she not sacrifice her life for the sake of her born child? Of course she would. It's the same in the case of the unborn child. After all, when she dies, she has to stand before the Son of Man, and give an account of her actions.
Shoobs86 wrote: This is completely irrational. Where are you coming up with "white apes"? What has that got to do with anything in this thread?
Shoobs86 wrote: This is why non-Christian people think that we are all nuts - you must be logical in your responses!
Shoobs86 wrote: » I think that this is the incorrect way to view the situation. As a Christian, yes, I uphold the moral and biblical law of thou shalt not kill. And therefore, I will not have an abortion by choice. However, I also currently run the risk of being killed by doctors during my pregnancy simply because there is no room in the law for them to terminate a pregnancy if I am at risk. Yes, the wording says it's ok if I am at risk - but we have seen evidence of doctors unwilling to do anything because they are afraid of being sued. I, personally, am already scared by this. As a Christian I also have to be honest with myself and realise that I have never walked in another's shoes; I cannot, and have no right to, interfere with someone else's choice - isn't that why God gave us Free Will? To sin, to repent, to be forgiven. I don't believe that voting "No" in this referendum will cease abortion in this country. I also don't believe your position that amending the 8th Amendment will mean that there is a murder free-for-all - be sensible in your arguements, this is NOT an approval for murder in general. It is approval for the decriminalisation of a medical procedure to end a pregnancy before the 12 week mark. This procedure happens every day in all countries - this referendum will not stop it. I also have to point out, as the parent of a Down Syndrome child, that the testing for Down Syndrome cannot be done before 12 weeks, and therefore the risk of "abortion due to disability" is removed by this time limit. When I weigh this all up morally, I cannot in good faith believe that I have the "high ground" above other people when I am not God - God has given people Free Will and it is not my place to judge under any circumstance. I can keep MY morals intact by not having an abortion, and by supporting proper Adoption services, but I cannot judge those who will have an abortion either way - no matter what the result of the referendum.
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Shoobs86 wrote: » This is completely irrational. Where are you coming up with "white apes"? What has that got to do with anything in this thread? This is why non-Christian people think that we are all nuts - you must be logical in your responses!
Shoobs86 wrote: » I don't believe that voting "No" in this referendum will cease abortion in this country. I also don't believe your position that amending the 8th Amendment will mean that there is a murder free-for-all - be sensible in your arguements, this is NOT an approval for murder in general. It is approval for the decriminalisation of a medical procedure to end a pregnancy before the 12 week mark. This procedure happens every day in all countries - this referendum will not stop it. I also have to point out, as the parent of a Down Syndrome child, that the testing for Down Syndrome cannot be done before 12 weeks, and therefore the risk of "abortion due to disability" is removed by this time limit.
Shoobs86 wrote: » I would not sacrifice myself for an unborn fetus. I simply would not. And I am terrified to think that this mentality still exists in this country. I am not here to breed the next generation - how dare you If God can forgive a murderer, an adulterer, a sinner as long as they repent then how dare you say that any woman whose life was saved by this medical procedure must explain herself to God. How dare you.
Nick Park wrote: Maybe you should read the thread title?
Shoobs86 wrote: » J C wrote: » but this doesn't remove the moral responsibility from anybody, when they act on matters of life and death ... such as when they cast their vote in the upcoming abortion referendum. Do we really want a society where the most dangerous place to be is in your mother's womb? There are obvious substantive reasons why 'thou shall not kill' is a critical principle for society to live by ... other than the fact that it is the Sixth Commanment of God (although that in itself should be very important for any Christian). The most obvious (and selfish reason) is that I could be the next victim, in a society that doesn't enforce and criminally sanction the principle of 'thou shall not kill'. ... and you or I might never have been born, if our societies didn't protect the right to life of unborn children, at the time. ... so why should we metaphorically 'lift the drawbrdge' behind us now? ... and leave future generations of children to 'run the gauntlet' of being aborted, in a society that legally allows unlimited abortion? I think that this is the incorrect way to view the situation. As a Christian, yes, I uphold the moral and biblical law of thou shalt not kill. And therefore, I will not have an abortion by choice. However, I also currently run the risk of being killed by doctors during my pregnancy simply because there is no room in the law for them to terminate a pregnancy if I am at risk. Yes, the wording says it's ok if I am at risk - but we have seen evidence of doctors unwilling to do anything because they are afraid of being sued. I, personally, am already scared by this. As a Christian I also have to be honest with myself and realise that I have never walked in another's shoes; I cannot, and have no right to, interfere with someone else's choice - isn't that why God gave us Free Will? To sin, to repent, to be forgiven. I don't believe that voting "No" in this referendum will cease abortion in this country. I also don't believe your position that amending the 8th Amendment will mean that there is a murder free-for-all - be sensible in your arguements, this is NOT an approval for murder in general. It is approval for the decriminalisation of a medical procedure to end a pregnancy before the 12 week mark. This procedure happens every day in all countries - this referendum will not stop it. I also have to point out, as the parent of a Down Syndrome child, that the testing for Down Syndrome cannot be done before 12 weeks, and therefore the risk of "abortion due to disability" is removed by this time limit. When I weigh this all up morally, I cannot in good faith believe that I have the "high ground" above other people when I am not God - God has given people Free Will and it is not my place to judge under any circumstance. I can keep MY morals intact by not having an abortion, and by supporting proper Adoption services, but I cannot judge those who will have an abortion either way - no matter what the result of the referendum.
J C wrote: » but this doesn't remove the moral responsibility from anybody, when they act on matters of life and death ... such as when they cast their vote in the upcoming abortion referendum. Do we really want a society where the most dangerous place to be is in your mother's womb? There are obvious substantive reasons why 'thou shall not kill' is a critical principle for society to live by ... other than the fact that it is the Sixth Commanment of God (although that in itself should be very important for any Christian). The most obvious (and selfish reason) is that I could be the next victim, in a society that doesn't enforce and criminally sanction the principle of 'thou shall not kill'. ... and you or I might never have been born, if our societies didn't protect the right to life of unborn children, at the time. ... so why should we metaphorically 'lift the drawbrdge' behind us now? ... and leave future generations of children to 'run the gauntlet' of being aborted, in a society that legally allows unlimited abortion?
fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: » The constitution can say what it likes. I'm telling you what God says.
NuMarvel wrote: If you don't care what the Constitution says, then I guess you won't be voting against repeal.
fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: » That's quite an illogical statement. I ignore the man made constitution. So should you.
fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: » What are you on about? You know abortion to be evil, yet you are prepared to allow it for others? Where is the logic in that?
WhiteRoses wrote: Its evil to force a woman who does not want to be pregnant, to be pregnant. Where is the logic in that?
NuMarvel wrote: The man made constitution is what we'll be voting on. As you don't care what that says, and even go so far to ignore it, then my previous comment, that you won't be voting against repeal, makes perfect sense.
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fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: » Whose forcing anyone to be pregnant? It is a decision between the disciplined couple. God has provided for infertile periods, it just requires discipline, and not to pander to every desire, as the animals do.
Delirium wrote: Therefore the woman is forced to continue with the pregnancy unless she leaves the country (which isn't an option for every pregnant woman).
fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: » Of course I'll vote against it. The eighth is not the ideal, but I have to work within the confines of the situation I'm given.
fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: » She can have an abortion if it comes in, but it doesn't alter the situation regarding consequences.
