defrule wrote: » Saw a very good video on cities recently.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvAvHjYoLUU
cgcsb wrote: » The solution is natural economics and fairer politics. Keep Dublin LPT in Dublin, stop all these 'rural broadband', 'rural renewal' schemes. Say no to calls for a vast CCTV network covering every boreen in the state. Say no public money maintaining roads that serve only one family. Ban one off homes for those not involved in farming/forestry etc. Tax septic tanks to fund the inspection of same and boom you have at least some of the real cost of ruralisation being realized and the problem will fix it's self. As it is despite all the subsidies and schemes rural areas are still depopulating en mass, natural economic forces will take over, the subsidies and schemes only delay the process.
BrianBoru00 wrote: » . Dublin is subsidising the rest of the country . . . . No it isn't, lets be honest here - a LOT of posters are very confused between Dublin, Rural Ireland and Other Urban areas OUTSIDE dublin. Dublin may be paying more in LPT that its getting in return but the Dublin centric location of state and semi state bodies is ridiculous when there is no need to do so. .
BrianBoru00 wrote: » I was just saying to herself that we hadn't had one of these threads since before Christmas.. Unfortunately having scanned through the 6 pages, the level of balanced posts has fallen below 10% :-( The GAA is the bad guy for having built one of the best stadiums in Western Europe while the poor FAI cannot afford to save Dalymount park :rolleyes: One off housing is a blight on the landscape . . Of course it is, most people agree. Dublin is subsidising the rest of the country . . . . No it isn't, lets be honest here - a LOT of posters are very confused between Dublin, Rural Ireland and Other Urban areas OUTSIDE dublin. Dublin may be paying more in LPT that its getting in return but the Dublin centric location of state and semi state bodies is ridiculous when there is no need to do so. Thats actually one of the more well articulated posts . . .BUT. Rural and Urban broadband is a must and should be provided to every home in the same way water and electricity area - However I would agree that it costs more to provide for rural Ireland. We should be trying to balance things so an identical three bed house in Rathgar for example costs €500 000 but only €140 000 in Drumshanbo - the householder in Rathgar should have to pay a one off connection for Fibre Broadband of €100 whereas the Leitrim dweller should pay €500 - of course there would be complaints from them but its a fair way of subsidising same. Secondly no one needs or wants CCTV on every boreen in the country - thats just daft. BUT put it at every junction on a motorway and then expand to national primary and secondary routes and approach roads to towns over 1000 population eventually - it would aid prevention of crime etc. Create a strategic plan that removes 90% of government and semi state jobs from Dublin. There will be protests but we're talking about an efficient solution so we have to get over the "they don't want to argument" which in any case tends to come from those higher up the food chain not a young married couple who are both Executive officers in the department of Environment earning a combined €65000. To take one single example. Irish Water signed a €16 million 10 year lease on its HQ in Dublin - There is no reason it has to be in Dublin - bring it to Edenderry or Newbridge or Tullamore or Athlone or another town within an hours drive of Dublin or on the rail line. Advantages to DUBLIN in no particular order 1. Less pressure on school places 2. More housing stock released to the market 3. Less traffic on the roads 4. More office space (which is one of the major factors affecting Dublins international competitiveness and younger workers in tech firms tend to use more public transport) Advantages to Rural ireland 1. Rural schools in danger of closing get 4-5 new pupils (as parents can commute to those towns from "Rural Ireland" 2. More people shopping in those towns therefore creating more business there 3. Removal of vacant / empty housing stock from "Rural Ireland" AND small towns and villages. Now multiply that by 20 other state and semi state bodies and everyones a winner. Don't give me the "best people want to stay in Dublin bolloxology either" . For a start look at all the scandals and tribunals as a result of general incompetence/lack of leadership shown by those "best people" working for the state, secondly change the culture of the public service to actually be of public service. By giving "Rural Ireland" what it wants - i.e. jobs and people (and AGAIN let me state that "Rural Ireland" is quite happy that the jobs are in a large town within 20-30 minutes commute from the then DUBLIN can get what it needs which of course is better public transport and more housing and more school spaces. It doesn't have to be nor should it be a Dublin V the rest situation. But we should look at balancing our regional cities. Sligo for example should be targetted as a regional hub for the North west - no with the same amount of resources or finance as Dublin or Cork/Limerick/Galway but a certain amount for example a quality hospital offering services for he dispersed populations of donegal and North Mayo as well as Sligo/Leitrim. But self interests in Dublin and Galway are every bit as bad as those in Rural Ireland. The national childrens hospital is a farcical location with loads of spin put on the "co-location" idea. If it truly is to be a world class childrens hospital then co-location with a training hospital would be way down the priority list -Is Great Ormondes street reliant on a training hospital. Galways congestion is staggering but because "consultants " didn't want to move everything is being done on the Regional site as opposed to Merlin park (which isn't exactly in a remote location ) where there is over 100 acres of space which could be developed allowing patients and visitors to park . . .
CarlosHarpic wrote: » Spoken like a 'Real GAA' man from a 'traditional Fianna Fail background I bet.
Deleted User wrote: » The rural > urban move has been going since the industrial revolution. Short of the technology of the world ceasing to function, its not going to change
BrianBoru00 wrote: » If it truly is to be a world class childrens hospital then co-location with a training hospital would be way down the priority list -Is Great Ormondes street reliant on a training hospital.
Deleted User wrote: The rural > urban move has been going since the industrial revolution.
Ben D Bus wrote: » Great Ormond Street IS a teaching hospitalhttps://www.londonmedicine.ac.uk/londons-landscape/national-health-service/london-s-nhs-infrastructure/ I'm really tired of the NCH argument at this stage.
BrianBoru00 wrote: » Thats my point.
Ben D Bus wrote: » It is? Then I'm afraid I'm missing it completely
nuac wrote: » So why had Ballymun to be knocked?
BrianBoru00 wrote: » Dublin is subsidising the rest of the country . . . . No it isn't, lets be honest here - a LOT of posters are very confused between Dublin, Rural Ireland and Other Urban areas OUTSIDE dublin. Dublin may be paying more in LPT that its getting in return but the Dublin centric location of state and semi state bodies is ridiculous when there is no need to do so.
Shurimgreat wrote: » You have to laugh at the fools who want to pile yet more people into Dublin. The traffic, Luas and bus situation is a farce and leading to traffic standstill. What do you think will happen if you double the population of Dublin as some want?
Shurimgreat wrote: » That's not to mention that Dublin planners are ideologically against high rise and high density buildings basically anywhere in the city and seem very resistant to new residential developments in general.
Shurimgreat wrote: » You have to laugh at the fools who want to pile yet more people into Dublin.
Shurimgreat wrote: » You have to laugh at the fools who want to pile yet more people into Dublin. The traffic, Luas and bus situation is a farce and leading to traffic standstill. What do you think will happen if you double the population of Dublin as some want? That's not to mention that Dublin planners are ideologically against high rise and high density buildings basically anywhere in the city and seem very resistant to new residential developments in general. I guess this will mean more urban sprawl. Not really increasing the population of Dublin, but instead increasing the populations of Meath, Kildare and the like with long commuter times for those unfortunate to be stuck there with no work-life balance. Short-term idiotic thinking at its worst. If Dubliners want to endure traffic chaos and rising and unaffordable housing then they are certainly going about it the right way.
Ben D Bus wrote: » How many times does it have to be pointed out that Dublin is a pretty small city. Population is not the problem, infrastructure is. The real folly is suggesting we stick with a crappy infrastructure and depopulate the city instead.
cgcsb wrote: » It's gas listening to people argue for ruralisation still to this day. It's been the policy of successive Irish governments for almost 100 years it involved rural electrification at massive cost, tarmacking of every public(and not so public) road in the state, a vast network of little used post offices and telegraph poles, gardaí stations with a staff of 1 that didn't deliver any effective policing etc. All at the expense of creating livable towns and cities with modern infrastructure, and thus creating a modern economy. A new technology comes out, high speed broadband and the Khmer Rouge brigade are convinced, that's it the silver bullet, the holy grail, that will make the continuous failure of ruralisation work, a heavily subsidized fiber optic network. scattering the population to bungalows in the wilds didn't work when there was no internet and it's not going to work now. I fear that if the Khmer Rouge win this broadband fight they'll keep going, they'll get a vast network of CCTV cameras to protect their oil tanks, when oil runs out they'll start demanding the piped gas network be stretched down every boreen. Heaven forbid if Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast rail routes get upgraded to high speed standard because then Achil will have to have the same level of service. Some folks just can't give up the dancing at the cross-roads, selling eachother arran sweaters for a living delusion that was sold to them 100 years ago.
marno21 wrote: » That's the whole point of this plan, to give a long term planning framework so that the infrastructural deficits of now and tomorrow are planned for and solved. At the minute projects like the Metro and the DART Expansion are in limbo because they take so long to plan and build that the short term electioneering politicians ignore them due to their large capital cost and length of time taken to get into place. This is what they are proposing as a solution to the issue. It's time we had a long term agenda rather than short term electioneering which gives us the watered down rubbish we've had over the last number of years. Dublin could take 10x the population it currently does if it was planned properly. The low density sprawl with pathetic infrastructure is the reason for the current mess, not the volume of people living there.
Shurimgreat wrote: » The whole thing is a mess and can only get worse.
Ben D Bus wrote: » No, it CAN get better.
Shurimgreat wrote: » Congrats on the strawman argument. Most people on the other side of the argument are asking for effective urban counterbalances to Dublin which stop people having to commute from Naas, Navan, PortLaoise, Athlone etc to the centre of Dublin for employment.
Shurimgreat wrote: » Once an apartment block goes up, that's it, you can't increase its height. Dublin planners are short termers and every bit as interested in parish pump politics as elsewhere.
Topgear on Dave wrote: » I would agree that the other regions are important in helping end the sucking sprawl that Dublin has become. However look at the bitter bunfights that happen when ever local politics gets into this stuff. Cork city vs Cork county councils fighting over the city limits. Look how stupidly bitter the arguments are between Waterford and Kilkenny over the Waterford city boundary. These arguments are in everyones interest to be resolved in a proper planned way, instead Iv heard a lot of hot air involving GAA rivalries in that dispute. When it goes wrong its "those boyos above in Dublin are against us"
draiochtanois wrote: » This post has been deleted.
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