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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Autochange

Bear markets
Fud
Regulation
Wall Street manipulation
The supposed tether ticking time bomb

What are your thoughts? Have you cashed out? Have you been buying the dips?

MOD NOTE:
Its good to see healthy debate and discussion taking place and I am sure every supporter of cryptocurrency and blockchain can agree that the contrarian viewpoint is worthwhile reading, if only to act as an anchor and help prevent investors from getting carried away in an echo chamber of "everything is wonderful, just keep going"

However, there have been a few reported posts recently which I did not action as I wanted to see the thread level out itself rather than start forcing viewpoints and I have been in two minds about that decision.

I'm not going to single any posters out but I'm going to ask that all posters read the forum charter and I want to point out that it was established years ago in the Television forum, that dropping in on a forum to tell the followers of that forums topic (in that case a particular tv show) that it was all crap and only idiots watched it etc etc was the exact definition of being a dick and attempting to troll. I know this because I was the mod of the forum at the time. Now look at the forum charter again.

There is pretty much one rule on this forum : if you cannot discuss in a civil manner, and I mean discuss, not soapbox or attack, then you have absolutely no business posting here and I have no qualms about removing your ability to do so.

This forum is for people that have in interest in cryptocurrencies, blockchain and their application to financial investments. that can be positive or negative but if you really feel the need to start pulling out memes / hiding insults in imaginary hashtags / attacking personalities or just generally being a dick there are other forums you can post in where I will let the local mods determine if it is within the scope of allowable behaviour. Here, it is not.

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kaymin

grindle wrote: »

He won't understand a word of what you're saying.

To the plebs who decide these are worthless without a second of research you can just fork any coin at any time and own a platform with equal value - they don't see the value in having the devs ETH has on board, the eco-system that ETH is surrounded by, the Fortune 500 companies who're already spending real cash on either using or investigating uses for the platform.

It's the epitomy of ignorance but I can understand why they don't see it happening in front of their eyes. In a perfect world they wouldn't even notice the changeover, but here they are watching it slowly unfold and they think it's the end of times.

Any financial middlemen and any services built on trust of a solitary third party are well and truly fúcked and people like JohnnyFlash don't understand why. It understandable because they refuse to research it.

Is crypto filled with bubbles?
Yep.
Has it reached it's final form?
Very very very far away from that happening. We're trillions of dollars away from the peak.

You seem unable to distinguish between blockchain technology (of which I'm not aware of anyone on this thread that is disputing the potential) and the current crop of crypto currencies (which almost all, if not all, have a very real potential of falling to zero).

Autochange

Justin Timberface performing on the super bowl half time show later. Supposedly he will be joined by a hologram of the departed Prince. VibeHub are the company behind the hologram technology. Vibe coin on Binance has been busy today. Good to see one of the alts technology being used in such a high profile public event.

drunkmonkey

grindle wrote: »

Any financial middlemen and any services built on trust of a solitary third party are well and truly fúcked and people like JohnnyFlash don't understand why. It understandable because they refuse to research it.

We have middlemen in crypto and there expensive, it's expensive to buy and expensive to transfer. It's a lot cheaper deal with the banks, have all the convenience and safety that goes along with that.

Anthracite

Autochange wrote: »

Justin Timberface performing on the super bowl half time show later. Supposedly he will be joined by a hologram of the departed Prince. VibeHub are the company behind the hologram technology. Vibe coin on Binance has been busy today. Good to see one of the alts technology being used in such a high profile public event.

Interesting - what does a Vibe coin buy you though? Is it for spending on their service? A percentage of their income?

99 Bortles of Beer

Autochange wrote: »

Justin Timberface performing on the super bowl half time show later. Supposedly he will be joined by a hologram of the departed Prince. VibeHub are the company behind the hologram technology. Vibe coin on Binance has been busy today. Good to see one of the alts technology being used in such a high profile public event.

That's not going ahead. There'll be no hologram, Prince was against that technology.

Autochange

99 Bortles of Beer wrote: »

That's not going ahead. There'll be no hologram, Prince was against that technology.

Hes dead. Sure what does it matter what he thought.

Autochange

Anthracite wrote: »

Interesting - what does a Vibe coin buy you though? Is it for spending on their service? A percentage of their income?

No idea. I have enough crypto alts to try keep an eye on.

Pintman Paddy Losty

The blind fervor that people defend their cryptocoin of choice here is staggering. It's cult like the way people repeat their mantras over and over to reassure themselves that they haven't been hoodwinked.

makeorbrake

@Mr. Losty: You running a tag team with Mr. Flash...seeing as you now have both been active here and trolling on another boards thread?

[Deleted User]

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote:

The blind fervor that people defend their cryptocoin of choice here is staggering. It's cult like the way people repeat their mantras over and over to reassure themselves that they haven't been hoodwinked.

I've seen members defend ponzi schemes in the same way. Then when it all collapses they cry and want someone to refund them their money.

It's all speculation but I'm sure there's still money to be made before it all goes pear shaped. The clever ones will have sold before then

Mongfinder General

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The blind fervor that people defend their cryptocoin of choice here is staggering. It's cult like the way people repeat their mantras over and over to reassure themselves that they haven't been hoodwinked.

A bit like newly mortgaged property owners in 2008

Pintman Paddy Losty

makeorbrake wrote: »

@Mr. Losty: You running a tag team with Mr. Flash...seeing as you now have both been active here and trolling on another boards thread?

Unfortunately there's a lot more than myself and Mr Flash that have noticed the emperor isn't wearing much clothes buddy.

[Deleted User]

makeorbrake wrote: »

You were told - how many times now? - ANY currency is only of value if the public sentiment and belief is there behind it. You countered with 'what currency can buy this?' which body stepped the point. A USD or a Euro can only buy something because people believe that this piece of paper has some value. Other than that, it's just a piece of paper.

You said that the euro was backed by this and that. That's the whole point here. Look up the meaning of FIAT - how FIAT currency came to be known as FIAT currency. Here's a hint - it's since the gold standard was dropped. When the gold standard existed, a currency may have been backed by something. Right now, FIAT is not.

FIAT currency is backed by governments. Governments enforce contracts, pay bills and collect taxes in the FIAT currency they back. Governments have police forces, and armies, that project power in the world.

It's nothing to do with public confidence and everything to do with state power. It is absolutely mind-boggling that people still don't seem to understand this. If the governments of China, Russia and the USA decided to kill bitcoin they could do it overnight. That's an unavoidable fact.

The fact that FIAT currencies aren't tied to the gold standard doesn't mean they are not backed by anything.

howamidifferent

Deleted User wrote:

If the governments of China, Russia and the USA decided to kill bitcoin they could do it overnight. That's an unavoidable fact.

How does any government kill anything that's run on millions of computers in all juristictions all over the world? They can't. You obviously have no understanding of the blockchain technology and its decentralisation.

dubrov

Deleted User wrote: »

FIAT currency is backed by governments. Governments enforce contracts, pay bills and collect taxes in the FIAT currency they back. Governments have police forces, and armies, that project power in the world.

It's nothing to do with public confidence and everything to do with state power. It is absolutely mind-boggling that people still don't seem to understand this. If the governments of China, Russia and the USA decided to kill bitcoin they could do it overnight. That's an unavoidable fact.

The fact that FIAT currencies aren't tied to the gold standard doesn't mean they are not backed by anything.

Yeah it really worked out well or Mugabe when he tried to force everyone to use the Zimbabwean dollar.

You've got to understand, the big attraction of cryptos is that they are outside government control. The value of your holdings doesn't change because some politician decides to suddenly changes economic policy or print a load more of the currency..

Shauny2010

Jezz so many angry anti-crypto people about since the price crashed. You`d think they would have been here when Bitcoin was $20k.
Are these new angry people ex-hodlers that have sold out and are now willing and wanting it to fail, if only to prove they were right to sell?
It really boils down to two choices, if you believe in the technology just Hodl
If not sell and move on, forget about it, don't worry if you've made a good or bad choice, its done, that's it.

kaymin

howamidifferent wrote: »

How does any government kill anything that's run on millions of computers in all juristictions all over the world? They can't. You obviously have no understanding of the blockchain technology and its decentralisation.

Peer to peer sharing platforms? Napster?

[Deleted User]

howamidifferent wrote: »

How does any government kill anything that's run on millions of computers in all juristictions all over the world? They can't. You obviously have no understanding of the blockchain technology and its decentralisation.

They make ownership or trading in crypto currencies a crime. They shut down exchanges. They tighten up scrutiny and auditing of transfers into fiat money. There are many ways. Being 'decentralised' doesn't stop governments crushing things they don't like.

The irony is that any time the price dives in recent months everyone claims it's because of something a mis-guided government said or did, but those same people then say that governments can't influence crypto markets.

BTW the broader point about fiat vs crypto stands. The idiotic argument that they are somehow equivalent because neither are backed by gold is just that - idiotic.

[Deleted User]

dubrov wrote: »

Yeah it really worked out well or Mugabe when he tried to force everyone to use the Zimbabwean dollar.

You've got to understand, the big attraction of cryptos is that they are outside government control. The value of your holdings doesn't change because some politician decides to suddenly changes economic policy or print a load more of the currency..

Which rather begs the question, why DOES the value of your holdings change?

Autochange

Deleted User wrote: »

They make ownership or trading in crypto currencies a crime. They shut down exchanges. They tighten up scrutiny and auditing of transfers into fiat money. There are many ways. Being 'decentralised' doesn't stop governments crushing things they don't like.

The irony is that any time the price dives in recent months everyone claims it's because of something a mis-guided government said or did, but those same people then say that governments can't influence crypto markets.

BTW the broader point about fiat vs crypto stands. The idiotic argument that they are somehow equivalent because neither are backed by gold is just that - idiotic.

One thought I have concerning the alt coins is lets say for example people buy into a certain coin en mass. This provides needed funding for the company. They then go on to make huge partnerships and start generating revenue through everyday use of their block chain products.
In the meantime governments ban crypto trading. The companies we helped fund at the start are now mainstream and dont need their "coin" market anymore. Its the small guys like me and you who lose out in the end.

lifeandtimes

dubrov wrote: »

The value of your holdings doesn't change because some politician decides to suddenly changes economic policy or print a load more of the currency..

And you don't need to worry about bailing out crypto banks

lifeandtimes

kaymin wrote: »

Peer to peer sharing platforms? Napster?

Proxys?

Steaming and downloading is still rampant no matter how much the governments try to stop them

JohnnyFlash

What all puzzles me is the idea that bitcoin and all the other scam coins are a sign of a moving of power back to the regular Joe. Most of the coins are held by a few canny pricks who got in early and mined the cheap coins. The 99.99% of others are just wildly speculating on the future value of the thing.

Classic bubble. Probably in the bear trap at the moment. Despair before the end of the year. Feel sorry for the ‘financial gurus’ who will be stuck with a load of virtual coins worth the sum total of jack shît.

grindle

kaymin wrote: »

You seem unable to distinguish between blockchain technology (of which I'm not aware of anyone on this thread that is disputing the potential) and the current crop of crypto currencies (which almost all, if not all, have a very real potential of falling to zero).

Unable to distinguish? Based on what?

I'm arguing against this dumb notion that X company will "just fork" whatever they want and use it internally - these ideas seem to come from some fantasist who thinks of each crypto as a finished product with no bugs or problems with security, "finished" software which is never in need of a patch/update and they also presume the company forking it is so hilariously arrogant that they'll be able to hire a dev to do what these devs are doing. If you were a dev proficient in Solidity would you
A. Take a job VISA are offering for $100k-$300k per year and undermine a technology that entranced you to the point where you learned Solidity?
OR
B. Find a utility that benefits from utilisation of blockchain, capitalise on it and raise tens of millions in an ICO in hours. Or minutes. Or seconds.

As for the current crop of cryptos reaching zero: a very large majority of them should, but even then their remnants will live on unceremoniously as cyclical pump and dumps with little possibility of being erased for as long as a node is running.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We have middlemen in crypto and there expensive, it's expensive to buy and expensive to transfer. It's a lot cheaper deal with the banks, have all the convenience and safety that goes along with that.

Miners are the middlemen and the products are nowhere near built-to-scale - when speculation outpaces utility, tx fees are always going to get messy.
If you want to make a tx with a bank, do that.
If you want to make a tx outside a bank or outside a centralised system, you now have the option to do that and will pay the privilege for the space if you so wish.

dubrov

Deleted User wrote: »

Which rather begs the question, why DOES the value of your holdings change?

Let's say there are 1,000,000 Euros in circulation, then the central bank prints another 1,000,000, if you could have of bought two tins of beans with a Euro, you will now only be able to buy one. There are plenty of other ways the central bank can devalue a currency.

Asset holdings in currencies are just a number. It is what it buys you that in goods/services that matters. That can vary for a lot of reasons.

Anthracite

Shauny2010 wrote: »

It really boils down to two choices, if you believe in the technology just Hodl
If not sell and move on, forget about it, don't worry if you've made a good or bad choice, its done, that's it.

The thing is, as I said on the other thread, the technology could be revolutionary but the coins worthless; c.f. the internet bubble.

aido79

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What all puzzles me is the idea that bitcoin and all the other scam coins are a sign of a moving of power back to the regular Joe. Most of the coins are held by a few canny pricks who got in early and mined the cheap coins. The 99.99% of others are just wildly speculating on the future value of the thing.

Classic bubble. Probably in the bear trap at the moment. Despair before the end of the year. Feel sorry for the ‘financial gurus’ who will be stuck with a load of virtual coins worth the sum total of jack shît.

I may be forcing you to actually do some research here but what's your opinion on Tangle as opposed to Blockchain? Do you think it will suffer the same fate as you assume Blockchain will?

lifeandtimes

Anthracite wrote: »

The thing is, as I said on the other thread, the technology could be revolutionary but the coins worthless; c.f. the internet bubble.

Why would the coins be worthless if it's attached to a company who's product is revoluntionary?

Anthracite

lifeandtimes wrote: »

And you don't need to worry about bailing out crypto banks

But you don't benefit from the government guaranteeing your money either. It's quite interesting economic history, how the US and other countries were forced to introduce deposit guarantee schemes.

lifeandtimes

aido79 wrote: »

I may be forcing you to actually do some research here but what's your opinion on Tangle as opposed to Blockchain? Do you think it will suffer the same fate as you assume Blockchain will?

He's not disputing blockchain, he's half assed attempting to dispute cryptocurrency without any evidence other than tales of wow of what might happen based on nothing other than fear of previous markets