The Legend Of Kira wrote: » In reply to pitigulgod & Kylith, this week a young man who is a member of Down syndrome Ireland expressed a different point of view. "" [font=Georgia, serif]A young man with Down syndrome has lent his voice to the Save the Eighth campaign.[/font][font=Georgia, serif]Conor O'Dowd, from Drogheda, Co Louth, and his father Michael yesterday appealed to voters not to repeal the Eighth Amendment.[/font][font=Georgia, serif] "I took today off college to be here. This is a very important day. I am against abortion," Conor told a press conference in Dublin yesterday. Michael took issue with a statement released by Down Syndrome Ireland last week saying the use of the image of a girl with Down syndrome on pro-life campaign pamphlets was "disrespectful to both children and adults with Down syndrome ". The group said people with Down syndrome "should not be used as an argument for either side of this debate".[/font][font=Georgia, serif]"I'm a member of Down Syndrome Ireland. I've sat on the board in the past. There are very different views in Down Syndrome Ireland ... but I won't be silenced," said Michael. He said the organisation's CEO, Gary Owens, was "relatively new" and was doing a "good job", but added, "I think he's made a mistake".[/font][font=Georgia, serif]"We would not have felt obliged to speak out were it not for the relentless campaign from some quarters telling us to remain silent. This past week, it has felt like our existence is inconvenient for some supporters of the abortion referendum, and that they would rather we went away and were quiet.[/font][font=Georgia, serif] "We will not. It is a cold, hard, undeniable fact that when abortion is introduced, a disproportionate impact is suffered by those children diagnosed with some form of disability."https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/we-wont-be-silenced-on-the-eighth-insists-student-with-down-syndrome-36549791.html[/font]
The Legend Of Kira wrote: » The new billboard van driving around town states " In Britain 90% of babies with down syndrome are aborted " how accurate is this claim ? well according to the factcheck by the journal.ie after a tv debate on this issue, they found the claim to be accurate .[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]" Claim 1:[/font][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] 90% of Down Syndrome diagnoses in England end in termination – Cora Sherlock[/font][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Verdict:[/font][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] Mostly TRUE "[/font]http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-down-syndrome-fatal-foetal-abnormality-cora-sherlock-ruth-coppinger-eighth-amendment-vincent-browne-2842048-Jun2016/
Howard Tasteless Bank wrote: » The Legend Of Kira wrote: » What exactly is horrible about the billboards & what if any type of pro life billboards would you find acceptable ? when they used some graphic posters in the past people say its " horrible " & when they use non graphic images some people still take offence, for example this is a new billboard van being driven around town at the moment & some people are still taking offence over it even though there is no graphic images on display . It's offensively inaccurate for one thing. I'd imagine it's also potentially deeply distressing for people with Down Syndrome and their families. And seeing as what's being proposed is abortion available up to a point in pregnancy where Down syndrome can't be screened for, it's got nothing to do with the matter at hand, and is a blatantly cynical, manipulative move. The pro-choice campaign seems to be sticking to the high road and using text, graphics etc in their campaign.
The Legend Of Kira wrote: » What exactly is horrible about the billboards & what if any type of pro life billboards would you find acceptable ? when they used some graphic posters in the past people say its " horrible " & when they use non graphic images some people still take offence, for example this is a new billboard van being driven around town at the moment & some people are still taking offence over it even though there is no graphic images on display .
The Legend Of Kira wrote: » At the moment that,s the proposal, what I haven,t heard anyone say is what,s to stop a future government legalising for abortion access further then 12 weeks ?
ohnonotgmail wrote: » Easily?? I really dont think so. That is just scaremongering.
freshpopcorn wrote: » Just in my opinion and I know people will jump down my throat over this but the reason that the pro-life campaign are using these poster is they'd claim that future governments could easily extended the twelve week rule which could result us ending up like the UK!
ohnonotgmail wrote: » The Legend Of Kira wrote: » What exactly is horrible about the billboards & what if any type of pro life billboards would you find acceptable ? when they used some graphic posters in the past people say its " horrible " & when they use non graphic images some people still take offence, for example this is a new billboard van being driven around town at the moment & some people are still taking offence over it even though there is no graphic images on display . What is proposed is abortion up to 12 weeks. you cannot test for downs before 12 weeks. Its a complete red herring from the No side.
kylith wrote: » The Legend Of Kira wrote: » What exactly is horrible about the billboards & what if any type of pro life billboards would you find acceptable ? when they used some graphic posters in the past some people say its " horrible " & when they use non graphic images some people still take offence, for example this is a new billboard van being driven around town at the moment & some people are still taking offence over it even though there is no graphic images on display . DSI have requested that on-one uses people with DS as pawns in their referendum campaign.
The Legend Of Kira wrote: » What exactly is horrible about the billboards & what if any type of pro life billboards would you find acceptable ? when they used some graphic posters in the past some people say its " horrible " & when they use non graphic images some people still take offence, for example this is a new billboard van being driven around town at the moment & some people are still taking offence over it even though there is no graphic images on display .
chalkitdown1 wrote: » Some horrible Pro-Life posters & billboards up around Cork City already including one giant one on the side of a building about a block away from a rape-crisis centre. Disgusting. And of course the info on them is either misleading or straight up false. It's gonna be a long 4 months of this crap.
WhiteRoses wrote: » That sounds like where my parents are at as well. I have a brother with special needs and life was extremely tough for them both financially while myself and my siblings were young. We lived with our grandparents for years before my parents were able to have their own home. They are very defensive about it all and very much of a "get up and get on with it" type attitude. They won't entertain any points about people struggling emotionally/financially because of an unplanned pregnancy and I really think its down to their own situations, they had more children than they planned to, because they literally had no choice but to struggle on. And I'm only in my mid 20's, and they aren't particularly old either (early 50's) Its interesting how our experiences shape us. As their child, I adore the ground they walk on. I had a great childhood all things considered and appreciate every opportunity they gave me. I know I am luckier than most. But I would NOT choose to have as many kids as they did. I don't know if I could cope if I had a child with special needs. My now almost adult brother still needs round the clock care and I don't know if I could make those kinds of sacrifices. Their experience makes them pro life. Mine makes me pro choice. My siblings are also pro-choice. I think a lot of people similar to my parents will vote no, as much as I wish it wasn't the case.
freshpopcorn wrote: » Just out of interest _Roz_ and whiteroses how did ye're parents vote in the marriage referendum?
Shadowthrone wrote: » Honestly I would say 12 weeks is not enough time. 16 is a better figure really. 1). this is a major decision, not something you just decide on easily (contrary to what pro life seems to believe, abortion will not be the new contraception). 2). it is entirely possible that people do not even realise they are pregnant by the 12 week point, or close to it. That happens all to often to be very realistic and not unreasonable. While it may seem like a simple decision from the outside, once it happens to you it is very different. It is a decision you must live with for the rest of your life and no woman will ever, i repeat, ever take it lightly. Which is why i laugh at some pro life people who seem to think that if this passes, all of a sudden every woman will be getting abortions because they can and it will be the new fad!
freshpopcorn wrote: » Thanks, Abortion is another issue tough fatal fetal abnormalities, kids who'd be severely disabled would probably be okay but anything else they'd be very dodgy of to be honest. Especially when financial issues are mentioned or putting careers on hold. They'd have being of the generation when you'd make things work even tough things would be a bit tight and you'd get help from home and make things work out.(I do understand not everybody would have help/etc)
freshpopcorn wrote: » Thanks, My parents would be similar but a bit more religious, condoms, sex, homosexuality(Took my father a bit longer to be honest once he saw gay people outside overly gay people on TV), even euthanasia(within reason) wouldn't really bother them. Abortion is another issue tough fatal fetal abnormalities, kids who'd be severely disabled would probably be okay but anything else they'd be very dodgy of to be honest. Especially when financial issues are mentioned or putting careers on hold. They'd have being of the generation when you'd make things work even tough things would be a bit tight and you'd get help from home and make things work out.(I do understand not everybody would have help/etc)
WhiteRoses wrote: » They voted yes in the marriage referendum with no convincing needed, they were both very very supportive and active in the campaign. They actually aren't conservative at all in any other aspects of their lives - neither are religious, and they encouraged/allowed me to start taking the contraceptive pill with their full support when I was 16. They support legalising cannabis/cbd oil. They are very open minded people. I think their opposition to repealing is a hangover from their strict religious upbringings. They realise all the implications it has on women but they just can't get past the fact that it "murders all the babies". I'm still hoping they change their mind but if the pro-life side continue with their scare tactics it isn't likely to happen.
Bannasidhe wrote: » I had a conversation the other day with a friend I don't get to see often where she told me of her horrible day canvassing for Marriage Equality in a Cork suburb (Simon Coveney's base as it happens) and her absolute horror when my notoriously homophobic elderly father opened the door to her knock. Having known her since she was a small child he recognised her so she couldn't run away. Instead she bit the bullet and asked him to vote Yes. He replied 'what other way would I ****ing vote?' Friend said she knew at the moment it was in the bag. Then she asked me 'What about Repeal? How will he vote on that?. I said I honestly don't know but suspect it would be a No. We made the sad commiseration faces at each other. This morning I decided to ask him. He said that while he, personally, is anti-abortion all this amendment is is nothing more than a way for the same bunch of godbotherers who put girls in the laundries to control and torture women and girls. That as far as he is concerned there is no way a fetus is equal to a living breathing woman and it's ridiculous to say it is. It's high time the women of Ireland were shown the respect they deserve and that respect includes them having the same control over what happens their own bodies as men have. Why on Earth would anyone want to force anyone to have a child they don't want? Sure he grew up seeing the effect that had. Women trapped in abusive marriages. Unloved and unwanted children with the rags of their arses flogging them. Men drinking to escape the responsibilities they couldn't cope with or fecking off on the boat. No more Holy Joes and Josephines punishing women and girls, he declared. Them day are gone and good riddance! My will be 86 years old when the Referendum happens father is voting Yes to Repeal. No one is more surprised than me.
freshpopcorn wrote: » Just out in interest _Roz_ and whiteroses how did ye're parents vote in the marriage referendum? People were able to seem to talk their parents around in the marriage referendum but this one seems more difficult.
_Roz_ wrote: » I'm fine with the 12 week limit but.... would people really take that long to figure out what to do? Do you want it, and can you support it. Yes/no answers to both. If you want it but can't support it, the decision might take a bit longer I suppose to try find a workable arrangement, but for the most part, surely anyone who is having sex should already have considered what they would do if they got accidentally pregnant, and review this at any point circumstances change, no?
seenitall wrote: » Well, That's not quite true though, is it? Plenty of people even just on this thread denouncing abortion as murder, so I am sure some of the more rabid ones could not be happier if they could somehow enact a law whereby A Handmaid's Tale becomes a reality.
I haven't started seeing tiny little hands and feet on huge placards in my locality yet, but when I do, I just have to make sure to remember one thing: The last sting of a cruel, vicious, dying wasp.
