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Child Item

The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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swampgas

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I personally think abortion is disgusting. The description of surgical abortion really makes me feel uncomfortable and the pictures I have seen online of litttle babies chopped into pieces is disturbing. I would have no qualms for a person to get abortion if they were raped or the child had a disease incompatible with life. But abortion on demand is something I will have to vote against.

Eye surgery is pretty "disgusting" too - but that doesn't mean it isn't valuable when needed. Remember though that if you want to allow abortion for rape or FFA (as you have indicated) then you should support repeal of the 8th, you can then lobby your TD about the legislation that is introduced for the cases where you feel abortion should be allowed. But the 8th has to go before any of this mess can be fixed.

applehunter

bennyl10 wrote: »

Yes., the campaign to repeal us all Soros...
Remove the tin foil hat

pitifulgod wrote: »

Yawn, George Soros obsession of some is hilarious.

You should be outraged If you are an Irish citizen. Why is this man trying to change our constitution?

Most people don't even know about him thanks to his allies in the media.

SusieBlue

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I personally think abortion is disgusting. The description of surgical abortion really makes me feel uncomfortable and the pictures I have seen online of litttle babies chopped into pieces is disturbing. I would have no qualms for a person to get abortion if they were raped or the child had a disease incompatible with life. But abortion on demand is something I will have to vote against.

I’m seeing lots here about the baby, what about the living woman carrying the baby? Do we have any compassion for her? What about her feelings?

Timberrrrrrrr

applehunter wrote: »

You should be outraged If you are an Irish citizen. Why is this man trying to change our constitution?

Most people don't even know about him thanks to his allies in the media.

Are you just as outraged by the outside influence (mostly American) that is also trying to interfere in this referendum or is it just George Soros you have taken umbrage to?

glic71rods46t0

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I’m seeing lots here about the baby, what about the living woman carrying the baby? Do we have any compassion for her? What about her feelings?

He supports abortion in cases of rape and FFA - compassion for what now?

RobertKK

In the UK they are suffering from a shortage of doctors when it comes to performing abortions.

I think a lot of doctors in Ireland will not want to facilitate abortions. It will be most likely the big business abortion providers who will move in fill the void if the 8th amendment is replaced.

WinnyThePoo

applehunter wrote: »

George Soros is indirectly trying to change our constitution. Media seem to be ok with this.

At least Chuck Feeney is actually of Irish heritage.

If in doubt blame george soros.

Spanish Eyes

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I personally think abortion is disgusting. The description of surgical abortion really makes me feel uncomfortable and the pictures I have seen online of litttle babies chopped into pieces is disturbing. I would have no qualms for a person to get abortion if they were raped or the child had a disease incompatible with life. But abortion on demand is something I will have to vote against.

Well if you are male you won't have to worry about it affecting your body personally will you?

Anyway sub twelve week terminations are already happening here with metothrexate and other drugs like Mifepriston that invoke a miscarriage. Happening every day here.

That is why the twelve week window is being mooted. It is already happening.

Surgical abortions will, imv only happen with FFA or threat to life of the woman.

It is not a pleasant subject for sure, but it is a reality now. Either abort in your bedroom or bathroom or export yourself to Britain or elsewhere. The blinkered view of what is happening daily is a bit ridiculous.

glic71rods46t0

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well if you are male you won't have to worry about it affecting your body personally will you?

emmm - men not entitled to have an opinion???

Spanish Eyes

q9214n5louyt3p wrote: »

emmm - men not entitled to have an opinion???

That is not what I said, thanks.

glic71rods46t0

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That is not what I said, thanks.

It was a question - that you didn't answer, thanks.

Ave Sodalis

q9214n5louyt3p wrote: »

He supports abortion in cases of rape and FFA - compassion for what now?

As has been said over and over in this thread, legislating for abortion in the case of rape is not practical. FFA is often not diagnosed to long after the 12 week mark being proposed. In this case, surgical abortion is necessary.

You can't really be against surgical abortion but for abortion in the case of rape or FFA. Pill abortions are already happening, there just isn't the support systems around it for women in Ireland.

q9214n5louyt3p wrote: »

emmm - men not entitled to have an opinion???

Ah come off it, that's not what the poster said.

Spanish Eyes

q9214n5louyt3p wrote: »

It was a question - that you didn't answer, thanks.

Ah here. Shoo.

applehunter

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you just as outraged by the outside influence (mostly American) that is also trying to interfere in this referendum or is it just George Soros you have taken umbrage to?

Something about this guy Soros that doesn't seem right. I mean his own people aren't too fond of him either.

Here we have a media that has been hammering 8th Amendment for the last 5 years non stop.

Then if comes to light that multi-billionaire George Soros is funding one the main repeal groups. But, not only that, in doing so he is breaking irish law. Sounds like a juicy story to me. Media blackout for 4 days.

The complicit media is where my outrage comes from.

It feels like I am screaming in the wind.

Already it is a referendum that has brought up huge debate and argument in my own home. But the same debate is not happening in the media.

Spanish Eyes

I doubt that anyone wants to abort. But sometimes they have to for many reasons.

Compassion for the circumstances of women you will never know or care for post termination would be a start.

But it seems to me that women are, as usual the vilified ones, when it always takes two to tango.

As you were, and back to the debate.

Zubeneschamali

RobertKK wrote: »

It will be most likely the big business abortion providers who will move in fill the void if the 8th amendment is replaced.

Who, Sainsburys?

Billy86

RobertKK wrote: »

In the UK they are suffering from a shortage of doctors when it comes to performing abortions.

More accurately, in the UK they are suffering from a shortage of doctors, full stop.

https://www.ft.com/content/a3a52be8-8e3a-11e7-a352-e46f43c5825d
In the next three years Britain’s cash-strapped National Health Service will be spending £100m in an effort to find 5,000 new doctors. In other words, each doctor needed to plug growing staffing shortages will cost £20,000 in fees to recruitment agencies.

Even then, there will be shortfalls. Jeremy Hunt, the health secretary, indicated earlier this year that the UK needed more like 11,500 doctors by 2020 to meet the demands of a seven-days-a-week NHS — one in which staff are as available at weekends as they are on weekdays. That the current supply-demand gap is of this magnitude speaks volumes about the gulf between government ambitions and reality.

SusieBlue

q9214n5louyt3p wrote: »

He supports abortion in cases of rape and FFA - compassion for what now?

I don’t think there’s much compassion in forcing someone who doesn’t want to be pregnant into motherhood, regardless of circumstances.

I trust other women to know their own limits and what they can and can’t cope with, and am in full support of her terminating for any reason she deems necessary enough to do so.

Limiting it to FFA and rape isn’t good enough.

Sofiztikated

applehunter wrote: »

Something about this guy Soros that doesn't seem right. I mean his own people aren't too fond of him either.

Here we have a media that has been hammering 8th Amendment for the last 5 years non stop.

Then if comes to light that multi-billionaire George Soros is funding one the main repeal groups. But, not only that, in doing so he is breaking irish law. Sounds like a juicy story to me. Media blackout for 4 days.

The complicit media is where my outrage comes from.

It feels like I am screaming in the wind.

Already it is a referendum that has brought up huge debate and argument in my own home. But the same debate is not happening in the media.

Maybe because you keep bringing up George Soros, and your family are sick of listening to you bleat on, while grown ups try to have a conversation?

Podge_irl

applehunter wrote: »

Then if comes to light that multi-billionaire George Soros is funding one the main repeal groups. But, not only that, in doing so he is breaking irish law. Sounds like a juicy story to me. Media blackout for 4 days.

How?

Annasopra

ForestFire wrote: »

I don't even know the background to this, But are people not allowed to progress their views, add to their views as new information is presented.

If you asking everyone to stick to what they thought or said 2 weeks ago, that just seems like trying to stop the discussion.

I am just highlighting the person says he supports repeal but on the other hand keeps finding fault with lots of aspects of repeal. It doesnt add up.

Annasopra

ForestFire wrote: »

Sorry but this is asking people to stop discussing, trying to shut down debate.

If something new is raised , then counter it, but don't try to stop new arguments/info.

I am not shutting down any debate whatsoever.

glic71rods46t0

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I don’t think there’s much compassion in forcing someone who doesn’t want to be pregnant into motherhood, regardless of circumstances.

I trust other women to know their own limits and what they can and can’t cope with, and am in full support of her terminating for any reason she deems necessary enough to do so.

Limiting it to FFA and rape isn’t good enough.

That is your opinion. There are other opinions on the matter though. Some might not share your trust of other women using abortion in lieu of contraception.

Nettle Soup

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I don’t think there’s much compassion in forcing someone who doesn’t want to be pregnant into motherhood, regardless of circumstances.

I trust other women to know their own limits and what they can and can’t cope with, and am in full support of her terminating for any reason she deems necessary enough to do so.

Limiting it to FFA and rape isn’t good enough.

In many ways I wish the referendum was configured so that votes from women were weighted higher.
It impacts them a lot more.

applehunter

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Maybe because you keep bringing up George Soros, and your family are sick of listening to you bleat on, while grown ups try to have a conversation?

Soros has never come up in these arguments tbh. These arguments are more fundamental than that.

The media have a duty to report on it and be robust in their job. People in their day to day lives do not have the time to investigate this stuff. That is why we are supposed to have a fourth estate.

Spanish Eyes

q9214n5louyt3p wrote: »

That is your opinion. There are other opinions on the matter though. Some might not share your trust of other women using abortion in lieu of contraception.

Men are absolved from all responsibility once more I see. It is a female issue and they will be the fallen woman.

Get a life or get the snip yourself.

SusieBlue

q9214n5louyt3p wrote: »

That is your opinion. There are other opinions on the matter though. Some might not share your trust of other women using abortion in lieu of contraception.

No sane person uses abortion as a means of contraception.

Anyone who suggests so clearly has no knowledge of what the procedure involves, because if they did they would know no woman would go through with it unless they had no other option - let alone multiple times as a means of contraception.

The fact that you don’t trust women is pretty disgusting and speaks for itself but hey ho, it is your CHOICE to feel that way and who am I to deprive you of that?

You are right about it being my opinion but the good thing about being pro choice is that I’m actually not forcing my opinion on anyone, or on society as a whole.
Have an abortion, don’t have an abortion. Everyone has their own choice and opinion and is free to live their lives and make their own decisions as they see fit.
It’s to pro-life side that are forcing their opinions and beliefs on everyone.

I’m not arrogant enough to believe that my opinion speaks for society as a whole.
I trust other women.
Maybe you should do that too.

Annasopra

applehunter wrote: »

George Soros is indirectly trying to change our constitution. Media seem to be ok with this.

At least Chuck Feeney is actually of Irish heritage.

Anytime I see George Soros mentioned I reckon it's a paid bot.

glic71rods46t0

Nettle Soup wrote: »

In many ways I wish the referendum was configured so that votes from women were weighted higher.
It impacts them a lot more.

Why stop there. Using your logic you could limit the voting to women of child bearing years - impacts them the most

applehunter

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Anytime I see George Soros mentioned I reckon it's a paid bot.

What does that mean?

a robot?