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Child Item

The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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glic71rods46t0

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That is not what I said, thanks.

It was a question - that you didn't answer, thanks.

Spanish Eyes

q9214n5louyt3p wrote: »

emmm - men not entitled to have an opinion???

That is not what I said, thanks.

glic71rods46t0

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well if you are male you won't have to worry about it affecting your body personally will you?

emmm - men not entitled to have an opinion???

Spanish Eyes

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I personally think abortion is disgusting. The description of surgical abortion really makes me feel uncomfortable and the pictures I have seen online of litttle babies chopped into pieces is disturbing. I would have no qualms for a person to get abortion if they were raped or the child had a disease incompatible with life. But abortion on demand is something I will have to vote against.

Well if you are male you won't have to worry about it affecting your body personally will you?

Anyway sub twelve week terminations are already happening here with metothrexate and other drugs like Mifepriston that invoke a miscarriage. Happening every day here.

That is why the twelve week window is being mooted. It is already happening.

Surgical abortions will, imv only happen with FFA or threat to life of the woman.

It is not a pleasant subject for sure, but it is a reality now. Either abort in your bedroom or bathroom or export yourself to Britain or elsewhere. The blinkered view of what is happening daily is a bit ridiculous.

WinnyThePoo

applehunter wrote: »

George Soros is indirectly trying to change our constitution. Media seem to be ok with this.

At least Chuck Feeney is actually of Irish heritage.

If in doubt blame george soros.

RobertKK

In the UK they are suffering from a shortage of doctors when it comes to performing abortions.

I think a lot of doctors in Ireland will not want to facilitate abortions. It will be most likely the big business abortion providers who will move in fill the void if the 8th amendment is replaced.

glic71rods46t0

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I’m seeing lots here about the baby, what about the living woman carrying the baby? Do we have any compassion for her? What about her feelings?

He supports abortion in cases of rape and FFA - compassion for what now?

Timberrrrrrrr

applehunter wrote: »

You should be outraged If you are an Irish citizen. Why is this man trying to change our constitution?

Most people don't even know about him thanks to his allies in the media.

Are you just as outraged by the outside influence (mostly American) that is also trying to interfere in this referendum or is it just George Soros you have taken umbrage to?

SusieBlue

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I personally think abortion is disgusting. The description of surgical abortion really makes me feel uncomfortable and the pictures I have seen online of litttle babies chopped into pieces is disturbing. I would have no qualms for a person to get abortion if they were raped or the child had a disease incompatible with life. But abortion on demand is something I will have to vote against.

I’m seeing lots here about the baby, what about the living woman carrying the baby? Do we have any compassion for her? What about her feelings?

applehunter

bennyl10 wrote: »

Yes., the campaign to repeal us all Soros...
Remove the tin foil hat

pitifulgod wrote: »

Yawn, George Soros obsession of some is hilarious.

You should be outraged If you are an Irish citizen. Why is this man trying to change our constitution?

Most people don't even know about him thanks to his allies in the media.

swampgas

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I personally think abortion is disgusting. The description of surgical abortion really makes me feel uncomfortable and the pictures I have seen online of litttle babies chopped into pieces is disturbing. I would have no qualms for a person to get abortion if they were raped or the child had a disease incompatible with life. But abortion on demand is something I will have to vote against.

Eye surgery is pretty "disgusting" too - but that doesn't mean it isn't valuable when needed. Remember though that if you want to allow abortion for rape or FFA (as you have indicated) then you should support repeal of the 8th, you can then lobby your TD about the legislation that is introduced for the cases where you feel abortion should be allowed. But the 8th has to go before any of this mess can be fixed.

brendanwalsh

I personally think abortion is disgusting. The description of surgical abortion really makes me feel uncomfortable and the pictures I have seen online of litttle babies chopped into pieces is disturbing. I would have no qualms for a person to get abortion if they were raped or the child had a disease incompatible with life. But abortion on demand is something I will have to vote against.

pitifulgod

applehunter wrote: »

George Soros is indirectly trying to change our constitution. Media seem to be ok with this.

At least Chuck Feeney is actually of Irish heritage.

Yawn, George Soros obsession of some is hilarious. Plenty of Irish men and women are happily trying to change the constitution as it's currently unfit for purpose when it comes to women's rights.

bennyl10

applehunter wrote: »

George Soros is indirectly trying to change our constitution. Media seem to be ok with this.

At least Chuck Feeney is actually of Irish heritage.

Yes., the campaign to repeal us all Soros...
Remove the tin foil hat

applehunter

George Soros is indirectly trying to change our constitution. Media seem to be ok with this.

At least Chuck Feeney is actually of Irish heritage.

B0jangles

Akrasia wrote: »

And just to confuse everyone even more, they'll go on and on about 'foreign' money from amnesty international or 'George Soros' or Chuck Feeney interfering in Irish politics.

On this last part; as I'm sure you know, this is an old political tactic - accuse your opponent of something you are actively doing yourself; if your opponent points out that you the one who is actually doing it, they usually end up looking either defensive or childish.

Akrasia

It's the same reason the Socialist Workers Party has a new brand for every campaign they get involved in. They know that nobody likes the SWP, so they call themselves 'People before profit' or the 'anti austerity alliance' or the 'Irish anti war movement' but they are all fronts for the same group of activists.

The 'anti repeal' side will be a 'coalition' that will include some contrarians from various social sectors but fundamentally, it will be directed by religious conservatives running astroturf campaigns to spread their message at arms length

And just to confuse everyone even more, they'll go on and on about 'foreign' money from amnesty international or 'George Soros' or Chuck Feeney interfering in Irish politics.

Loafing Oaf

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Same thing here. I haven't seen/heard much about them since one of the was on the Brendan O'Connor show last year. They are actually gone scarily quiet!

I suggested earlier that they might have been wrongfooted by the government's decision to propose 'abortion on demand' up front. Likely many of the counter-arguments they had stockpiled were along the lines of "We've seen in other countries how apparently limited abortion regimes turn into abortion on demand in the blink of an eye." But they should have had enough time to adjust their position at this stage...

seamus

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Same thing here. I haven't seen/heard much about them since one of the was on the Brendan O'Connor show last year. They are actually gone scarily quiet!

They're very conscious of not allowing people to become aware that the pro-life campaign is being run by religious interests. David Quinn and Iona are synonymous with religious conservatism.

Hence why all of the pro-life material is coming from various shell organisations. You can see on Twitter though that he'll pick a topic of the week (such as Down's Syndrome) that just incredibly coincides with the latest material that comes out.

Both Youth Defence and Iona have prepped their door-to-door campaigners to go heavy on the "poor babbies" narrative and avoid all talk of religion.

freshpopcorn

swampgas wrote: »

I haven't heard much from the Ionanists in the media lately - I wonder if they're pursuing a new strategy. I always got the impression during the marriage equality debate that they were using it as an exercise to prepare for the abortion campaign.

Same thing here. I haven't seen/heard much about them since one of the was on the Brendan O'Connor show last year. They are actually gone scarily quiet!

nozzferrahhtoo

Actually with the amount of lies coming from such sources during the SSM campaign I actually suspected they might come late on the scene for this one. Because they want less time for the lies and distortions to be rebutted and used against them to show how dishonest they are.

Like the angle of making the SSM campaign as being about the children. We had a LOT Of time to get into the media and other forums to explain why this was a distortion of what was actually being voted on.

So I had a kind of inward prediction that they would pedal their distortions later in the process this time, to erode the rebuttal time we would have and maximize the impact of their scare mongering. They realized they shot their load too soon last time, and will cut it down a bit this time.

All just my feeling I hasten to add. Nothing I can cite events or quotes for to substantiate. Just an impression I was left with.

eviltwin

swampgas wrote: »

I haven't heard much from the Ionanists in the media lately - I wonder if they're pursuing a new strategy. I always got the impression during the marriage equality debate that they were using it as an exercise to prepare for the abortion campaign.

Yeah surprised by this too. DQ was everywhere during the SSM campaign. I have seen his Iona colleague Maria Stern speaking about this, probably they think having a woman argue against Repeal gives their argument more weight.

swampgas

seamus wrote: »

No, they don't.
... Iona soup, David Quinn loves to talk about the oath that nobody takes.

I haven't heard much from the Ionanists in the media lately - I wonder if they're pursuing a new strategy. I always got the impression during the marriage equality debate that they were using it as an exercise to prepare for the abortion campaign.

nozzferrahhtoo

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

just wish it was the middle of May now and get this vote over with(as it doesn't affect me either way). All the best.

I loved a post earlier in the thread that said something like "I have been waiting for this election for decades and now it is finally here, I am sick of it already". Gave me a smile.

I suppose if we want to be pedantic though it DOES affect you. It is a change to your/our constitution. That therefore affects us all. A constitution is precious and it belongs to all of us, so changing it affects all of us.

In fairness though, the moderator team has been doing a good job of keeping abortion discussion to this single mega thread for the most part. Which is good, because anyone truly sick of it only has to ignore one thread whereas those interested in it do not have to go running all over the place. Good work those mods!

freshpopcorn

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

just wish it was the middle of May now and get this vote over with(as it doesn't affect me either way). All the best.

Your not the only one!

Tipperary animal lover

Hi all, as a gay male I've got to say that I'll be voting to repeal, I stay out of the arguments at this stage it's getting crazy with what is been pulled out of the hats from both sides, I've faith in the women of this country to do the right thing as they see it, so I choose to give them my vote, we've come along way from the depressing sh*te hole this country was in back in the 80s, the very best to both sides with there campaign, just wish it was the middle of May now and get this vote over with(as it doesn't affect me either way). All the best.

ForestFire

seamus wrote: »

No, they don't.

The Hippocratic Oath is an historical relic that's not used any more.

Some doctors may take a modern form of the oath in a ceremonial context, but there is no obligation on them to do so, and any such oath has no legal power.

I see you've been drinking from the Iona soup, David Quinn loves to talk about the oath that nobody takes.

Can you not just correct my point without resorting to insults please.

I don't know anything about Iona or the David person you speak of.

seamus

ForestFire wrote: »

You do know every doctor takes an Oat?

No, they don't.

The Hippocratic Oath is an historical relic that's not used any more.

Some doctors may take a modern form of the oath in a ceremonial context, but there is no obligation on them to do so, and any such oath has no legal power.

I see you've been drinking from the Iona soup, David Quinn loves to talk about the oath that nobody takes.

freshpopcorn

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He'll be voting Yes, and arguing against the 12 week legislation.

Thanks, for clearing that up for me!

Zubeneschamali

freshpopcorn wrote: »

So, does this mean that Simon will be voting Yes or No?

He'll be voting Yes, and arguing against the 12 week legislation.