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Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Quin_Dub

This thread is for the continuing discussion of Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

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everlast75

It's what DT does.

1) I'll build a wall - doesn't
2) I'll make Mexico pay for it - doesn't
3) I'll hire a special prosecutor to jail Hillary - doesn't
4) Obama was not born here - has press conference admitting Obama was
5) says there was widespread voter fraud- launches commission and then shuts it down.
Etc etc etc

He is an absolute bullshìt artist. A complete fraud and a liar.

The only type of people who derive pleasure from seeing this guy in power are those that love how the left and most decent human beings are appalled by what he does. If that's your bag, fair enough.

But no-one with complete mental faculties can belief for one moment that he will say one thing one moment and not completely contradict himself and change his mind on a whim if he wants to.

The idea that he has a cogent business plan or model to his presidency is utterly laughable.

Nody

recedite wrote: »

There is already a barrier, part concrete and rebar, part steel fence, partly open but patrolled, and partly just open.

The whole thing needs beefing up. Whats so hard to understand?

As for what happens when people evade the barrier, there is ICE and there is the DEA. But also there are the "sanctuary cities".

Well let's see, 90%+ of all illegal immigrants coming in via airplane for starters as they simply don't go back after their visa expires (ironically the numbers staying increased drastically when they started to control the border as the easy way back to Mexico disappeared).

Drugs are being driven in on trucks and cars rather than carried through the desert for second. If not driven they are shipped via private tunnels under the border from city to city because once again building a tunnel in the middle of no where would be to easy to spot. Why those options? Simple answer quantity. A single tunnel can let you move a few tons of drugs in a night compared to trying to get humans carrying them for weeks through the desert.

Third being the ongoing maintenance cost to "close" something which is already being bypassed today (both fences and walls are routinely bypassed by the once not flying in). Hence extending the fence/wall is an exercise of pissing against the wind; it may feel good at the start but in the end you end up wet and cold. If you actually want to do something about drugs or immigrants you'd focus on rehabilitation to stop drug users; there's a reason they are all shipping to USA in the first place and that's because it's the world largest market to sell on after all. As for immigrants; once again give them an easy route home again and suddenly you'll find many will be going back home again after having made a bit of money to build their house etc.

Novel ideas I know but unlike Trump I believe in making a change rather than wasting money on chasing white elephants; then again that is a very Republican thing to do (see for example voter ID to stop voter fraud etc.).

spacecoyote

The very idea that a wall would have any meaningful or tangible benefit to the US in terms of drug control or illegal immigration is absurdly naïve at best.

Taking the $25bn or whatever it is he now wants for it & putting it directly to addressing the opioid issue in the US would help hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans directly, and actually be an example of putting America first.

But that isn't flashy enough for Trump. Having a big visual that he can point at & shout "Look what I built" is of much more import than actually addressing the problems the people of America are facing.

Pepefrogok

That was an amazing speech, I'd say it would swing a lot of Americans to trump! Realistically it was a disaster for the dems, the American people seen trump hailing blue collar workers and American patriots while the dems brought illegal immigrants and refused to stand or clap for kind hearted cops or the flag and anthem, even think of the optics of them scowling at the patriot kid who put the flags and flowers on the graves of hero's! Terrible night for the dems and trump haters. Also people are actually judging him as a failure in this thread for not keeping all campaign promises after 1 year?? You guys lol. The wall will be built and ultimately funded by mexico losing business and investment to America and being forced to keep their more unproductive gringos.

weisses

Pepefrogok wrote: »

That was an amazing speech, I'd say it would swing a lot of Americans to trump! Realistically it was a disaster for the dems, the American people seen trump hailing blue collar workers and American patriots while the dems brought illegal immigrants and refused to stand or clap for kind hearted cops or the flag and anthem, even think of the optics of them scowling at the patriot kid who put the flags and flowers on the graves of hero's! Terrible night for the dems and trump haters. Also people are actually judging him as a failure in this thread for not keeping all campaign promises after 1 year?? You guys lol. The wall will be built and ultimately funded by mexico losing business and investment to America and being forced to keep their more unproductive gringos.

It was actually a good night .. It kinda confirms the man cannot say anything coherent if its not typed out for him

robinph

Pepefrogok wrote: »

The wall will be built and ultimately funded by mexico losing business and investment to America and being forced to keep their more unproductive gringos.

Even if Mexico ends up worse off due to the wall, it is still the US that is paying for it, both in actual dollars to pour the concrete and also the cost of goods and labour increasing when they no longer make use of the cheaper supplies of both those things from Mexico.

Chips Lovell

Why would Mexico keep "unproductive gringos"? How did they end up in Mexico in the first place?

FreudianSlippers

spacecoyote wrote: »

The very idea that a wall would have any meaningful or tangible benefit to the US in terms of drug control or illegal immigration is absurdly naïve at best.

Taking the $25bn or whatever it is he now wants for it & putting it directly to addressing the opioid issue in the US would help hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans directly, and actually be an example of putting America first.

But that isn't flashy enough for Trump. Having a big visual that he can point at & shout "Look what I built" is of much more import than actually addressing the problems the people of America are facing.

Funnily, marijuana is the largest volume drug smuggled into the US from Mexico. The National Bureau of Economic research has shown that legalisation of marijuana now in 8 states and D.C. (although we really only have strong evidence from 4-5 of those states) has had a minimal impact on marijuana use, a minimal impact on use of other drugs, a significant decrease in crime and a very significant increase in tax intake.

Sounds like if you want to end drug smuggling from Mexico, you don't need a wall, you just need to legalise and regulate lesser drugs and perhaps decriminalise the harder drugs.

FreudianSlippers

CNN Fact-checked the State of the Union; pretty interesting, as quite a few true statement (many misleading inherently though) but the most interesting part are the blatantly false statements. Largely, Trump seems to be either fundamentally incorrect about statements (i.e. so-called "chain migration") or he's flat out lying about it.

I won't list the whole thing out here for both copyright reasons and length, but link is here: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/30/politics/state-of-the-union-address-fact-check/index.html

FatherTed

Pepefrogok wrote: »

That was an amazing speech, I'd say it would swing a lot of Americans to trump! Realistically it was a disaster for the dems, the American people seen trump hailing blue collar workers and American patriots while the dems brought illegal immigrants and refused to stand or clap for kind hearted cops or the flag and anthem, even think of the optics of them scowling at the patriot kid who put the flags and flowers on the graves of hero's! Terrible night for the dems and trump haters. Also people are actually judging him as a failure in this thread for not keeping all campaign promises after 1 year?? You guys lol. The wall will be built and ultimately funded by mexico losing business and investment to America and being forced to keep their more unproductive gringos.

LOL, do you really know what a "gringo" is?

jobbridge4life

Pepefrogok wrote: »

That was an amazing speech, I'd say it would swing a lot of Americans to trump!

What specifically was amazing about it? Funny, a speech *vaguely* seeking American unity is considered 'amazing' but a lot of Pepe fans also praise every comment he makes that seeks to sow division and hatred between Americans. I'd be interested to see you reconcile those two positions.

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Realistically it was a disaster for the dems, the American people seen trump hailing blue collar workers and American patriots while the dems brought illegal immigrants and refused to stand or clap for kind hearted cops or the flag and anthem, even think of the optics of them scowling at the patriot kid who put the flags and flowers on the graves of hero's! Terrible night for the dems and trump haters.

Any evidence or polling to confirm this 'disaster'?

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Also people are actually judging him as a failure in this thread for not keeping all campaign promises after 1 year?? You guys lol. The wall will be built and ultimately funded by mexico losing business and investment to America and being forced to keep their more unproductive gringos.

When will it be built? By whom? To what specification? Will it meet Trump's many, conflicting, standards for the wall? What is clear is that Mexico will not be paying for it. Unless you redefine 'paying' as decline in trade between America and Mexico... which will of course leave American's actually paying for it, and dealing with the economic damage it entails.

The use of a racist epitaph shows just you are Pepe, and whether troll by virtue of a sad life, or some other nonsense it reflects perfectly on you.

Professor Moriarty

FatherTed wrote: »

LOL, do you really know what a "gringo" is?

The irony will be lost, unfortunately.

spacecoyote

Pretty unsubtle but looks like these guys are looking to cash in on the current atmosphere in America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB1gHa5K_l8

Overheal

Pepefrogok wrote: »

The wall will be built and ultimately funded by mexico losing business and investment to America and being forced to keep their more unproductive gringos.

Ignoring for a moment your laughable attempt at an inflammatory, racist remark, why would illegal immigrants be 'unproductive?' The ones you seem to be trying to refer to, literally hiked through the f'n desert in extreme cold and heat, risking dehydration, frostbyte, heat stroke and other wonderful methods of dying, to get a decent paying job.

eire4

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Funnily, marijuana is the largest volume drug smuggled into the US from Mexico. The National Bureau of Economic research has shown that legalisation of marijuana now in 8 states and D.C. (although we really only have strong evidence from 4-5 of those states) has had a minimal impact on marijuana use, a minimal impact on use of other drugs, a significant decrease in crime and a very significant increase in tax intake.

Sounds like if you want to end drug smuggling from Mexico, you don't need a wall, you just need to legalise and regulate lesser drugs and perhaps decriminalise the harder drugs.

Very good points there. I would also point out that cannabis has many other industrial uses and is not hard to grow. I also could not agree more strongly about other harder drugs. They need to be decriminalized and hard drug addiction treated as a health issue and funded as such not a criminal issue.

In terms of cannabis I think the real game changer is California now that it is fully legal in what is by far the largest US state economically that will be the tipping point for it to be fully legal in most of the US within the early years of the 2020's I think.

Noel82

Overheal wrote: »

why would illegal immigrants be 'unproductive?'

There was a study done in Arizona showing they're more likely to commit crimes.

"The crime rate among illegal immigrants in Arizona is twice that of other residents, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Friday, citing a new report based on conviction data.

The report, from the Crime Prevention Research Center, used a previously untapped set of data from Arizona that detailed criminal convictions and found that illegal immigrants between 15 and 35 are less than 3 percent of the state’s population, but nearly 8 percent of its prison population...

Undocumented immigrants also accounted for five times the rate of convictions for money laundering and kidnapping, and were three times more likely to be convicted of drive-by shootings...

“They’re more likely to be convicted of sexual assault, robbery, and driving under the influence. They’re more than twice as likely to be convicted of murder,” Mr. Sessions said in remarks prepared for a speech in Norfolk, Virginia."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/26/illegals-commit-crimes-double-rate-native-born-stu/

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

everlast75 wrote: »

The only type of people who derive pleasure from seeing this guy in power are those that love how the left and most decent human beings are appalled by what he does. If that's your bag, fair enough.

Alabama almost elected a paedophile to the senate to annoy liberals. That's the kind of people who are supporting Trump.

Igotadose

Noel82 wrote: »

There was a study done in Arizona showing they're more likely to commit crimes.

The report, from the Crime Prevention Research Center,.../QUOTE]

Anyone quoting John Lott is as guilty of lying as he has been found to be. Sessions quoting him, is terrifying but not surprising in the fox-news run WH administration. John Lott's full of it. He's the 'Crime Prevention Research Center.' The washington times is a rag - quote exactly the data and the sources and the analysis, and maybe the discussion can continue, but anything from Lott should be dismissed a priori, way too many failings to be considered a legitimate researcher.

https://thinkprogress.org/debunking-john-lott-5456e83cf326/

Pepefrogok

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Alabama almost elected a paedophile to the senate to annoy liberals. That's the kind of people who are supporting Trump.

An alleged paedophile, remember before trump when liberals believed in innocent until proven guilty? Said nothing until the election, dodgy lawyer and caught forging the book, not saying he is innocent but I'd personally need more to ruin a man's life.

Leroy42

Pepefrogok wrote: »

An alleged paedophile, remember before trump when liberals believed in innocent until proven guilty? Said nothing until the election, dodgy lawyer and caught forging the book, not saying he is innocent but I'd personally need more to ruin a man's life.

Right, so all illegals are rapist and drug dealers, but you want to stick to the 'innocent until proven guilty' idea for the white conservative man.

Pepefrogok

Overheal wrote: »

Ignoring for a moment your laughable attempt at an inflammatory, racist remark, why would illegal immigrants be 'unproductive?' The ones you seem to be trying to refer to, literally hiked through the f'n desert in extreme cold and heat, risking dehydration, frostbyte, heat stroke and other wonderful methods of dying, to get a decent paying job.

I didn't say all of them, you should try reading a bit better! With a secure boarder and a good immigration policy they can take the cream and leave the bad hombres!

Pepefrogok

Leroy42 wrote: »

Right, so all illegals are rapist and drug dealers, but you want to stick to the 'innocent until proven guilty' idea for the white conservative man.

If you can show me where I said all illegals are rapists and drug dealers you would have a point, I am pretty sure I'd be banned by now if I had the same aggressive posting style and misrepresentation.

Leroy42

Pepefrogok wrote: »

If you can show me where I said all illegals are rapists and drug dealers you would have a point, I am pretty sure I'd be banned by now if I had the same aggressive posting style and misrepresentation.

You agree with Trump, who stated this. You don't have to have said it directly.

Really Interested

Pepefrogok wrote: »

I didn't say all of them, you should try reading a bit better! With a secure boarder and a good immigration policy they can take the cream and leave the bad hombres!

So you are happy to leave any one in who is not a criminal and also leave any immigrants stay who are not criminals.

pitifulgod

Pepefrogok wrote: »

An alleged paedophile, remember before trump when liberals believed in innocent until proven guilty? Said nothing until the election, dodgy lawyer and caught forging the book, not saying he is innocent but I'd personally need more to ruin a man's life.

Well, the democrats applied standards that the GOP clearly don't, they pushed for Al Franken to resign. Roy Moore has numerous highly credible accusations against, while some attempted to smear the victims. It's still as credible as ever, Trump actively campaigned for him.

Sort of hilarious to see Trump fans backing Moore when groups that would be fans of Pepe the Frog came out with nonsense like Pizzagate which was incredibly stupid, baseless and did actively try to ruin people's lives. Bizarre double standard, ridiculous conspiracies are okay while not backing Moore would be ruining his poor life. Give a moment to consider how it must be for victims of Roy Moore to witness the President backing him, that's atrocious.

Itssoeasy

This memo business is insane. It seems like the memo was written by aides of congressman Devin Nunes and the FBI have even put out a statement(An FBI who is trump's pick) asking that the memo not be released. If it is released than the FBI can't comment about it in public.

The FBI takes seriously its obligations to the FISA Court and its compliance with procedures overseen by career professionals in the Department of Justice and the FBI. We are committed to working with the appropriate oversight entities to ensure the continuing integrity of the FISA process.

With regard to the House Intelligence Committee’s memorandum, the FBI was provided a limited opportunity to review this memo the day before the committee voted to release it. As expressed during our initial review, we have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo’s accuracy.

Manic Moran

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Alabama almost elected a paedophile to the senate to annoy liberals. That's the kind of people who are supporting Trump.

Partially, but is it also possible that paedophile or not, they did not agree with the policies that they would have advocated for by their representative in Congress for the next few years? The laws enacted by your congresscritters are as valid and binding on you no matter their legal problems behind the scenes. That's not a case of annoying the opposition, that's a case of voting for someone who will advocate for policies you are more inclined to support.

After all, if the guy really was a paedophile, got charged, and had to resign, a new election could be called next year. But a law which perhaps that Democrat might be the swing vote for could be binding on you for the rest of your life.

The joys of the two-party system, I'm afraid.

Water John

Nunes, on another fake mission. Taking info to the WH, which he already got from the WH.
Nunes, no credibility.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Nunes, on another fake mission. Taking info to the WH, which he already got from the WH.
Nunes, no credibility.

A point I've heard today and the FBI seem to be saying the same thing. A FISA request is a detailed thing and to write a memo can in no way accurately cover all of the information contained in a classified request. If I didn't know any better(and I don't) I'd say this is a messy way for the White House to cast doubt on the Russia investigation and the FBI without linking it directly to them. If that's even remotely accurate then this is going beyond a joke.

Water John

Nunes is a patsy. Really shot of any credibility.