Men's rights on Abortion?

eviltwin wrote: »

If men had that option would your opinion on abortion change?

I have stated what my opinion on abortion is.

JRant

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Every time a fella in this thread guys tugs off into a sock I wonder what consequences they should be forced to endure

Washing crusty socks???

Seriously what are you getting at with this and the "Say it" stuff?

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

And on the same thing.

If a man tells the woman he doesn't want the baby, he isn't ready, he doesn't want to be punished etc why should he have to be accountable for that child who the mother chose to give birth to?

That’s an excellent question and something that definitely needs to be explored.
It’s definitely something that needs to be addressed.

pemay wrote: »

No, your comment is sneaky in its intent.

Nowhere have I said that a man OR woman should be able to do whatever.

I simply posed the very real question that it is unfair for one person to have 100% say on a decision over the life of that man AND womans unborn child.

Slip out of that too, why don't you?

and everyone agrees, yes it is unfair that the woman has the final say, but it is HER body.
and that is life. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that?
a man cannot force a woman to do something with her body she doesn't wish to.
the same as a woman cannot force a man into fatherhood if he doesn't wish to.

sometimes, life isn't fair.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Honestly, if it were possible for a man to force a woman to proceed with a pregnancy she didn’t want, a lot of men would do it just for spite if relations between them weren’t good.

Before the pitchforks come out I concede that many women would also be spiteful enough (maybe moreso) to force a man to go through the same if it were biologically possible for a man to carry a pregnancy.

Basically, my point is that people are assh*les. Both genders. People can be petty as hell, especially when relationships are breaking down.

And if that were the way the law worked you’d 100% have a small minority of men forcing their ex-partners to go through with a pregnancy he doesn’t want either just to p*ss her off.
That’s why it simply cannot be allowed happen.

So to sum up (I'm laughing here!)

men would **** women over, women would **** men over. BUT.....its essential that men are never allowed to do it.

Oh jeeeesus hahaha

Vertigous_ wrote: »

As a corollory to the "My body my choice" argument I presume people which use that argument agree that a man should be allowed to walk around with his penis hanging out, and also to masturbate in public. #Mybodymychoice #bodilyautonomy

How on earth is you exposing and pleasuring yourself in public even marginally related to the topic we’re discussing?
Grow up.

pemay wrote: »

So to sum up (I'm laughing here!)

men would **** women over, women would **** men over. BUT.....its essential that men are never allowed to do it.

Oh jeeeesus hahaha

Safe to say you totally missed the point anyway. I’ll leave you to it.

bubblypop wrote: »

and everyone agrees, yes it is unfair that the woman has the final say, but it is HER body.
and that is life. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that?
a man cannot force a woman to do something with her body she doesn't wish to.
the same as a woman cannot force a man into fatherhood if he doesn't wish to.

sometimes, life isn't fair.

So if you agree its unfair, then you would be cool with fathers being given some legal representation in the choice?

Cos that's not down to nature, that's simply a case of people deciding that a legality is unfair, and doing something about it.

Right?

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

No it's not just for procreation but I'm not selfish enough to demand an abortion if my wife got pregnant again.

so you agree, that men and women can have sex for pleasure, and not because they want a child?
good.
so if contraception fails, through no fault of theirs, why should they be forced to have a child neither of them want?

Vertigous_ wrote: »

Many people argue for "bodily autonomy".

You clearly don’t understand the meaning of the term.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Safe to say you totally missed the point anyway. I’ll leave you to it.

Use your eyeballs and re-read what you wrote down.

What point am I missing?

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

If a man tells the woman he doesn't want the baby, he isn't ready, he doesn't want to be punished etc why should he have to be accountable for that child who the mother chose to give birth to?

but he isn't.
men can, and do walk away from pregnancies and children

MayoSalmon

bubblypop wrote:

if they are not alive then it is not death. stop piling on the drama!!

If there not alive??? A heartbeat should signify there very much alive

HandsomeBob

Just home from visiting my new nephew, while also entertaining my 4 year old godson who very much knows already that there's "competition" for him and acting accordingly. It's the kind of scenario where you realise just how much work children are, and the love required between two people to raise them. Compounding this is the very difficult pregnancy my sister in law had, and I couldn't imagine someone going through that against their will.

So basically what I'm saying is that ultimately, women should have control over their own bodies. I have my own conflicting feelings about terminations but I've no problem reconciling this with the fact women can make an informed choice and be capable of living with the aftermath of their own decision.

I understand the points about males in relationships not being heard if the woman wants to terminate but if men do find themselves in that scenario, as others have pointed out, you'd have to question the legs of the relationship anyway. Chances are in that scenario, if the man feels he's been completely shut down and hurt deeply, then she's probably not for you and you should move on.

Triceratops Ballet

pemay wrote: »

So if you agree its unfair, then you would be cool with fathers being given some legal representation in the choice?

Cos that's not down to nature, that's simply a case of people deciding that a legality is unfair, and doing something about it.

Right?

so the father get's legal representation, (aside from the minefield in establishing that he is or isn't the father.) Then what?

pemay wrote: »

So if you agree its unfair, then you would be cool with fathers being given some legal representation in the choice?

Cos that's not down to nature, that's simply a case of people deciding that a legality is unfair, and doing something about it.

Right?

but, i have already stated that men can and do walk away.
what would you suggest legal representation would do? force the women to do one or the other?

MayoSalmon wrote: »

If there not alive??? A heartbeat should signify there very much alive

really?
sorry, but until it can live on its own outside the womb, then it is not alive.

bubblypop wrote: »

so you agree, that men and women can have sex for pleasure, and not because they want a child?
good.
so if contraception fails, through no fault of theirs, why should they be forced to have a child neither of them want?

That is the result of their actions.

If I found a rattlesnake and kept poking at it, eventually what comes naturally will happen. It would be my own fault, I wouldn't blame someone else and I would face up to that result.

One eyed Jack

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Honestly, if it were possible for a man to force a woman to proceed with a pregnancy she didn’t want, a lot of men would do it just for spite if relations between them weren’t good.

Before the pitchforks come out I concede that many women would also be spiteful enough (maybe moreso) to force a man to go through the same if it were biologically possible for a man to carry a pregnancy.

Basically, my point is that people are assh*les. Both genders. People can be petty as hell, especially when relationships are breaking down.

And if that were the way the law worked you’d 100% have a small minority of men forcing their ex-partners to go through with a pregnancy he doesn’t want either just to p*ss her off.
That’s why it simply cannot be allowed happen.

Honestly it just wouldn't be feasible anyway because of the time it would take for such cases to come to court. It wouldn't even be possible to force an injunction on a woman to prevent her from availing of an abortion if abortion is legally available to her.

Where there is a much greyer area than abortion, particularly in the US, is with regards to women who have given birth as a result of being raped, and whether or not in those circumstances it is in the best interests of the child to allow the child to have a relationship with their father -

Child custody rights for rapists? Most states have them

meeeeh

This thread is hilarious. I'm not even surprised anymore by human stupidity.

So what do we do, chain the disobedient woman to the radiator? (Who is going to cook and clean boys?) Take away her documents for the duration of pregnancy? Report the wife to the guards she is planning an abortion and she should be put in prison till she gives birth. I want to see practical solutions. Surely the geniuses who think they should have a say thought up some action plan.

bubblypop wrote: »

but he isn't.
men can, and do walk away from pregnancies and children

And I would imagine the vast majority are chased down for maintenance.

eviltwin

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

That is the result of their actions.

If I found a rattlesnake and kept poking at it, eventually what comes naturally will happen. It would be my own fault, I wouldn't blame someone else and I would face up to that result.

Would we deny you medical treatment because of it?

bubblypop wrote: »

if they are not alive then it is not death.
stop piling on the drama!!

As an aside, I do find amusing the overwhelming need to dehumanise the child/"bunch of cells".

Its a common trick throughout history. For instance when a colonial power has intentions to take over another country, there is usually a sustained propaganda that the people in that place are "less" than the people of the colonial power, they are uneducated, they are savages, they have no humanity, no civility etc etc etc

Basically, its "no big deal!"

It was, and is, all about justifying the elimination of something you don't want, simply for your own benefit.

Far easier to do away with a bunch of non-living cells than be faced with the horror that it would be/is a human being......its gas

jeonahr

Don't see how some people aren't understanding the concept of defending a woman's bodily anatomy. The physical pain and possible ramifications and changes that will occur in the woman's body should be something that she chooses to endure, not something that is forced upon her. It's barbaric to force a woman to carry out an unwanted pregnancy. The men aren't the ones that have to deal with all the bodily physical obstacles of being pregnant.

eviltwin wrote: »

Would we deny you medical treatment because of it?

There is lots of treatment available to help along a pregnancy. Would you kill me or give me a chance to get over the bite?

meeeeh

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

That is the result of their actions.

If I found a rattlesnake and kept poking at it, eventually what comes naturally will happen. It would be my own fault, I wouldn't blame someone else and I would face up to that result.

And have an abortion... what's the problem.

jeonahr wrote: »

Don't see how some people aren't understanding the concept of defending a woman's bodily anatomy. The physical pain and possible ramifications and changes that will occur in the woman's body should be something that she chooses to endure, not something that is forced upon her. It's barbaric to force a woman to carry out an unwanted pregnancy. The men aren't the ones that have to deal with all the bodily physical obstacles of being pregnant.

Do you realise how much pain etc women go through after an abortion?

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

And I would imagine the vast majority are chased down for maintenance.

really??
imagine again!!
its very hard to get maintenance if the father doesnt agree. and if he 'isn't working' or has a very low income officially, then maintenance isn't worth much.
and if they dont pay, theres really not much to force them to.
particularly if they leave the state. which happened to my ( married ) friend, when her husband fecked off to australia!

eviltwin

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

There is leots of treatment available to help along a pregnancy. Would you kill me or give me a chance to get over the bite?

What's the treatment for an unwanted pregnancy?