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Child Item

The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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Cabaal

Clair4 wrote: »

How much does it cost to have an abortion or is it free on the medical card

Right now, in Ireland you don't pay the HSE anything, But you have to import the pills yourself and pay for them yourself.

It might cost you a 14 year prison sentence though.

Clair4

How much does it cost to have an abortion or is it free on the medical card

nozzferrahhtoo

wingsof daun wrote: »

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that?

It is big and honest of you to out yourself as a cannibal. Most people would keep that secret. But yes I am ok with that being your PERSONAL moral system.

But as long as you want to live in a society with us, it is not your personal morality that is important here. It is the social one. And if you want us to be ok with your morality, then you have to be ok with the fact we will lock you up for a long long time for doing what you apparently want to do.

Personal morality is mediated by social morality. And Social morality is a subjective discourse and ever changing. So you are MORE than welcome to campaign for your cannibalistic rights. You will likely need to start be explaining why your desire to eat people who also have rights, should trump and negate their rights. I doubt you will have a coherent argument to that effect.

With abortion however, given that is what this thread has come to be about, we are talking about a fetus at 12 weeks. And I am seeing no reason to consider it an entity with rights. As such, a woman's desire to terminate it is not the same as your desire to terminate a human food source.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Great... undoubtedly displaying late term abortions and/or complete lies?

Yes - the one that caught my eye was a picture of a child with a beaten face alongside a picture as you describe, with a caption like "Another huge child abuse scandal on the way" or words to that effect. Did my best to avoid the others.

I was actually surprised by the age group of those holding it. All 12+ of them were of student age.

Guy:Incognito

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

That's the establishment's angle IMHO. The other perspective the Repeal camp.

.

And what's the establishments (made up of white people) reason for this?

captbarnacles

As I said before, this thread has been instructive in showing the poverty of the pro-lifers arguments which range from NIMBY to Slutshaming to 'I wouldn't exist' to this drivel:

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that? You cannot argue with me because it's just me living by my own morals and no one else can make me live by their view of life, as you said right?

The new wave of pro life posters makes me nearly miss some of the now threadbanned ones.

Ave Sodalis

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote:

Giant banners of a graphic nature being displayed by the pro-life side all around the Irish Times building this lunchtime.

Great... undoubtedly displaying late term abortions and/or complete lies?

wingsof daun wrote:

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that? You cannot argue with me because it's just me living by my own morals and no one else can make me live by their view of life, as you said right?

That would be illegal...

ohnonotgmail

Cabaal wrote: »

Nah, cutting the grass is murder.
I suppose spreading grass seed on concrete where it can't grow is like masterbating
:P

i remember that bit in the bible. Odin wasn't it?

ohnonotgmail

wingsof daun wrote: »

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that? You cannot argue with me because it's just me living by my own morals and no one else can make me live by their view of life, as you said right?

the law says you cant. so your morals are irrelevant.

wingsof daun

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

God doesn't exist.

Your moral are not the same as other people's.stop trying to make people live by your own view of life.

My morals say I can kill you for food because I'm very hungry, you okay with that? You cannot argue with me because it's just me living by my own morals and no one else can make me live by their view of life, as you said right?

.......

This post has been deleted.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Giant banners of a graphic nature being displayed by the pro-life side all around the Irish Times building this lunchtime.

4 months more of this to go. Cant wait

Guy:Incognito

wingsof daun wrote: »

Women have the right to reproduce but not the right to kill, or conspire to kill either. We have the right to act morally, not otherwise. If we act immorally we are liable to be punished by the higher law, the laws governing the universe, Gods law. Man's created laws and rights are imperfect or artificial.

God doesn't exist.

Your moral are not the same as other people's.stop trying to make people live by your own view of life.

pleas advice

Cabaal wrote: »

Nah, cutting the grass is murder.
I suppose spreading grass seed on concrete where it can't grow is like masterbating
:P

i remember that parable

_Dara_

I'm living in Dublin but I've discovered that I'm actually still registered in my home county. I've decided to leave it that way, I reckon my quite conservative home county needs my repeal vote more than Dublin does.

The mar ref just about passed there in 2015.

Cabaal

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nah, cutting the grass is murder.
I suppose spreading grass seed on concrete where it can't grow is like masterbating
:P

.......

This post has been deleted.

Cabaal

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So flowers have a soul? How many flowers have you killed over the years?

Just flowers?
Lets go back to the grass, what about when he cuts the lawn?
Think of the millions of murdered grass, what a monster!

Wombatman

wingsof daun wrote: »

That is how misguided we have become. Nothing grows without the presence of the soul. No combination of material elements can assume the symptoms of life without the soul. The sperm and eggs combine and the soul enters then the cells begin to multiply. That is Vedic knowledge, superior to your Bible and far older too.

Cabaal

kylith wrote: »

So, grass has a soul?

Grass goes to grass heaven sure, unless its burnt....then it goes to grass hell

Coillte_Bhoy

Doltanian wrote: »

There should be referendum on killing innocent babies. Full Stop. Irish people are not capable of being trusted at the ballot box,

Talk about a contradiction?

Timberrrrrrrr

wingsof daun wrote: »

That is how misguided we have become. Nothing grows without the presence of the soul. No combination of material elements can assume the symptoms of life without the soul. The sperm and eggs combine and the soul enters then the cells begin to multiply. That is Vedic knowledge, superior to your Bible and far older too.

So flowers have a soul? How many flowers have you killed over the years?

kylith

wingsof daun wrote: »

That is how misguided we have become. Nothing grows without the presence of the soul. No combination of material elements can assume the symptoms of life without the soul. The sperm and eggs combine and the soul enters then the cells begin to multiply. That is Vedic knowledge, superior to your Bible and far older too.

So, grass has a soul?

ohnonotgmail

wingsof daun wrote: »

That is how misguided we have become. Nothing grows without the presence of the soul. No combination of material elements can assume the symptoms of life without the soul. The sperm and eggs combine and the soul enters then the cells begin to multiply. That is Vedic knowledge, superior to your Bible and far older too.

and just as much nonsense as anything in the bible. ancient fairy stories are just that. attempts by primitive men to understand the world around them.

nozzferrahhtoo

wingsof daun wrote: »

Those people are all asses. What value has their opinion? None! You may say morality is subjective but that isn't the fact. There is a higher law, you don't have to call it Gods. Do you not believe in karma/rebirth? What comes around goes around as the saying goes.

What "higher law" are you referring to and what evidence have you for it's existence? Unless we can substantiate the existence of this "higher law" the the law of humanity ON humanity is the only one we need concern ourselves with.

wingsof daun wrote: »

Nothing grows without the presence of the soul.

Define what "soul" is exactly? Where does it come from? How does it get into, say, a plant?

Cabaal

wingsof daun wrote: »

That is how misguided we have become. Nothing grows without the presence of the soul. No combination of material elements can assume the symptoms of life without the soul. The sperm and eggs combine and the soul enters then the cells begin to multiply. That is Vedic knowledge, superior to your Bible and far older too.

A soul is just a belief,
It cannot and has not been proven,

I can say that rocks have souls, you can't disprove me.

nozzferrahhtoo

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

It shows how utterly infantile, imbecilic, gullible and narcisstic as a populace we have become.

No. It doesn't. And I think we can discuss why without any of your conspiracy theories and anti establishment agenda and issue with overlords and elites.

Quite simply what we are doing as a society is refining what it is we actually value and why. With statistically irrelevant exception we ALL value Human Life, and the lives of Children over all. So all your narratives around some erosion of that value is simply fantasy play.

What we are doing is refining why it is we value those things, and what it even means to value them. And what we are learning from that introspection more and more is that the attributes that gives value to these things, are the attributes that a 12 week old fetus lacks ENTIRELY.

We value the choices, freedoms and well beings of sentience entities. We do not want to curtail such things without good cause. So unless you can establish a basis for why we need to hold moral and ethical concern for a fetus......... then no one else is going to start doing so. Much less at the expense of the ACTUALLY sentient woman whom we do actually value.

Deleted User wrote: »

Its a deep deep shame that you are not passionate about protecting the life of an unborn child.

I am VERY passionate about protecting the lives of unborn children. I just differ from you as to when that concern comes online. It is later in the process that conception, or implantation or whatever it is has been floating YOUR boat.

But that I differ in WHEN I start to hold that concern, does not mean I do not hold it at all. So you would do well to stop pretending that is the position of pro-choice speakers.

kylith

wingsof daun wrote: »

Those people are all asses. What value has their opinion? None! You may say morality is subjective but that isn't the fact. There is a higher law, you don't have to call it Gods.

And yet, you did.

wingsof daun wrote: »

Do you not believe in karma/rebirth?

Nope.

wingsof daun wrote: »

What comes around goes around as the saying goes.

Got any proof of that?

wingsof daun

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I think we can stop with the whole religion aspect of it now. Your bible states (multiple times) that life begins when someone breathes on their own. Even Adam was not considered alive until he was breathing so even though it does forbid murder (rightly), it does not define a foetus as a living thing.

That is how misguided we have become. Nothing grows without the presence of the soul. No combination of material elements can assume the symptoms of life without the soul. The sperm and eggs combine and the soul enters then the cells begin to multiply. That is Vedic knowledge, superior to your Bible and far older too.

.......

This post has been deleted.