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Child Item

The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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nozzferrahhtoo

Deleted User wrote: »

the only 100% foolproof way to avoid this is to avoid having sex.

Except, as you want to keep ignoring, places that have tried to implement that kind of thinking ended up with MORE unwanted and teen pregnancies. So your "foolproof way" underestimated the ingenuity of fools I guess, as the old adage goes. Abstinence approaches to contraception is the work OF fools, not the prevention of them.

Deleted User wrote: »

If you do have sex then there should be a level of responsibility and that includes raising a child.

Responsibility for an action means examining all the options, and choosing the best one for you and your situation. Preventing one of those options, for no good reason, is not allowing people to take responsibility. It is taking it away from them, and excercising it vicariously on their behalf.

You appear to think "taking responsibility" means "do what irishfreeview wants". Not sure I have any interest in the "do as I would do" mentality there.

Ave Sodalis

Deleted User wrote: »

Im delighted that it all worked out for you, my point is that I would in most circumstances work out for all mothers.

That is wishful thinking at best. Do you really believe it works out for all mothers? Or even most?

kylith

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean becoming pregnant and went on to have a child, I would have thought that was obvious?

Obviously not, since that's not what you said.

Anyway, what does someone having a termination then choosing to subsequently have a baby have to do about anything?

Deleted User wrote: »

How about reading the posts before jumping in with your opinion.

I have already said abortion should be legal for Rape, Incest and Medical Reasons.

And how would that be worked?

On achieving a conviction? That could take years.
On filing a report? We'd see skyrocketing false rape accusations.
On stating that she was raped? What's the difference between that and abortion on request?

Deleted User wrote: »

No, because I think the cost and hassle of going to the UK should be enough of a deterrent to put women off that abortion is something to be taken likely.

So rich women can travel, that's ok by you.

If a woman can't afford to travel for an abortion how can she afford to take care of a baby?

[Deleted User]

optogirl wrote: »

the good news for you is, whatever the outcome, your position does not have to change. That's the wonderful thing about choice.

It's a shame that the unborn life inside the mother's womb does not get a choice and is condemned to death if the mother so chooses.

I guess choice is a limited thing.

[Deleted User]

gallifreya wrote: »

I clearly said I made a choice due to my circumstances. A woman might not need to be rich to raise a child but in my case I definitely needed my job to support my family, my home and my pregnancies. Women's circumstances differ. And abortion was available to me - in the UK. I chose to continue with my pregnancies because I felt able to. No medals required.

Im delighted that it all worked out for you, my point is that I would in most circumstances work out for all mothers.

[Deleted User]

baylah17 wrote: »

Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy?:rolleyes:

When do you think life begins?

Or do you think there is a troll inside a woman mixing up some goo and sticking stuff together?

gallifreya

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you saying that you would have taken abortion had it been available other than having your own children?

You dont need to be rich to raise children, plenty of people of low incomes do this, even those on the dole.

You dont get a medal for having your children, you give love and get love back.

I clearly said I made a choice due to my circumstances. A woman might not need to be rich to raise a child but in my case I definitely needed my job to support my family, my home and my pregnancies. Women's circumstances differ. And abortion was available to me - in the UK. I chose to continue with my pregnancies because I felt able to. No medals required.

Cabaal

joeyanne wrote: »

How do you still think abstinence is a viable option?

Its not a viable option at all though thats the funny thing,
The US states which teach abstinence only in schools have the highest rates of teen pregnancy's.

abstinence ignores the very basic urge in basically every creature on this planet.

[Deleted User]

joeyanne wrote: »

CONTRACEPTION FAILS.
How do you still think abstinence is a viable option?
Sex is supposed to be enjoyable, nothing to be ashamed of, and something everyone - even if you don't want children - should be able to experience.
Sex is stress relief, it is fun, it is a way to feel close to someone you love.

Yes Contraception fails, but if you are in a loving relationship you should be in a position to have the child.

Sex is not a right for either partner, it is not a chore, it is not a requirement of a relationship.

The act of Penatrive sex can result in a pregnancy, the only 100% foolproof way to avoid this is to avoid having sex. If you do have sex then there should be a level of responsibility and that includes raising a child.

baylah17

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe once you conceive you are having a child.

Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy?:rolleyes:

optogirl

Deleted User wrote: »

And there goes morals and decency.

You do realise when you abort you are killing unborn life, abortion should not be something taken lightly.

the good news for you is, whatever the outcome, your position does not have to change. That's the wonderful thing about choice.

Call me Al

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How about reading the posts before jumping in with your opinion.

I have already said abortion should be legal for Rape, Incest and Medical Reasons.

I also corrected my mistake about suicide and stated the law was changed back in 93.

Why are these pregnancies and babies ok to be murdered, going by your terminology, and not the others conceived using consensual legal sex? Why are they less worthy of life?

SusieBlue

Deleted User wrote: »

No, because I think the cost and hassle of going to the UK should be enough of a deterrent to put women off that abortion is something to be taken likely.

I would like to see abortion legalised for Rape, Medical reasons and those carrying a child within incest. I do not want to see women charged with a crime for travelling to the UK.

So abortion is fine, so long as it doesn't happen in Ireland. Another "not in my back yard" type opinion.

baylah17

Deleted User wrote: »

And there goes morals and decency.

You do realise when you abort you are killing unborn life, abortion should not be something taken lightly.

Morals! Who are you to lecture anyone on morality??? You sit there typing out judgemental cold and disgusting tripe about women and then you talk of decency!
When a woman has an abortion she is terminating a potential life, she is not killing anyone.
Away with your hyperbole.

Cabaal

January wrote: »

They've already said that women can travel if they want an abortion, just another end of the road type poster.

Typical, though at least they bothered to state their double standards instead of dodging the questions like most pre-lifers

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that isnt what you said. you said

that is impossible.

I believe once you conceive you are having a child.

nozzferrahhtoo

Deleted User wrote: »

People on average have sex at least once a week, if you don't want children then you either use contraception, the morning after pill or you don't have sex.

Asking them not to have sex is not realistic. Asking people to use MAP after every sexual encounter is even worse. It would be unworkable and highly dangerous.

Also, news flash, the MAP is not 100% effective either. Another thing you appear not to know.

Also who says they are not using contraception? That they ended up pregnant does NOT mean they did not use contraception? And what of the people who did not have sex willingly or, sometimes, even knowingly?

Deleted User wrote: »

Abortion should not be another option to replace contraception or the morning after pill

Then you must be OVERJOYED to note that not one single person ANYWHERE on this thread is suggesting it be such a replacement. Hurray!

[Deleted User]

Cabaal wrote: »

You're all for saving the fetus,
So tell me, do you think article 42.2 should be FULLY enforced by the Irish state in relation to when a women attempts to travel for an abortion?

Right now its completely ignored,

No, because I think the cost and hassle of going to the UK should be enough of a deterrent to put women off that abortion is something to be taken likely.

I would like to see abortion legalised for Rape, Medical reasons and those carrying a child within incest. I do not want to see women charged with a crime for travelling to the UK.

joeyanne

Deleted User wrote: »

People on average have sex at least once a week, if you don't want children then you either use contraception, the morning after pill or you don't have sex.

Abortion should not be another option to replace contraception or the morning after pill, don't want children then don't have penetrative sex.

CONTRACEPTION FAILS.
How do you still think abstinence is a viable option?
Sex is supposed to be enjoyable, nothing to be ashamed of, and something everyone - even if you don't want children - should be able to experience.
Sex is stress relief, it is fun, it is a way to feel close to someone you love.

kylith

Deleted User wrote: »

People on average have sex at least once a week, if you don't want children then you either use contraception, the morning after pill or you don't have sex.

Abortion should not be another option to replace contraception or the morning after pill, don't want children then don't have penetrative sex.

So married couples and people in long term relationships should live in celibacy?

How many times do you have to be told that the MAP is serious medication which can only be given a few times over a lifetime?

January

Cabaal wrote: »

You're all for saving the fetus,
So tell me, do you think article 42.2 should be FULLY enforced by the Irish state in relation to when a women attempts to travel for an abortion?

Right now its completely ignored,

They've already said that women can travel if they want an abortion, just another end of the road type poster.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean becoming pregnant and went on to have a child, I would have thought that was obvious?

that isnt what you said. you said

I have seen young girls abort a child only to have a child 6 months later.

that is impossible.

[Deleted User]

Cabaal wrote: »

Rape / Incest victims choose to have sex?

Something they had to fight for against the some sort of people that are against the 8th, funny that.

1990 isn't that long ago, and thats when Virgin Media was brought to court for selling "shock horror" condoms.

Again, something they had to fight for against the some sort of people that are against the 8th. I know of a few women who have been refused the pill because the person prescribing it refused to do so on religious grounds.....this still happens in modern Ireland.

What country do you live in?
Suicide was decriminalised in the Republic of Ireland in 1993, so its certainly not illegal to "commit it",

How about reading the posts before jumping in with your opinion.

I have already said abortion should be legal for Rape, Incest and Medical Reasons.

I also corrected my mistake about suicide and stated the law was changed back in 93.

Cabaal

Deleted User wrote: »

And there goes morals and decency.

You do realise when you abort you are killing unborn life, abortion should not be something taken lightly.

You're all for saving the fetus,
So tell me, do you think article 42.2 should be FULLY enforced by the Irish state in relation to when a women attempts to travel for an abortion?

Right now its completely ignored,

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

People on average have sex at least once a week, if you don't want children then you either use contraception, the morning after pill or you don't have sex.

Abortion should not be another option to replace contraception or the morning after pill, don't want children then don't have penetrative sex.

and you continue with this ignorant view that you can pop the MAP every time you have sex just in case.

[Deleted User]

kylith wrote: »

Having a termination and then having a child six months later.

Human gestation = 9 months

The MAP messes with your hormones so I would expect a gap of 1-2 months before subsequent conception.

So your scenario: girls giving birth at 4 month's gestation, which is massively likely to lead to the death of the infant.

Unless you're actually incorrect about what happened and the real reason for these births, unless you're lying about them, is that the MAP failed or was taken too late.

I mean becoming pregnant and went on to have a child, I would have thought that was obvious?

Cabaal

Deleted User wrote: »

Women already have choices;

They choose to have sex.

Rape / Incest victims choose to have sex?

They can choose to use contraception.

Something they had to fight for against the some sort of people that are against the 8th, funny that.

1990 isn't that long ago, and thats when Virgin Media was brought to court for selling "shock horror" condoms.

They can choose to use the morning after pill.

Again, something they had to fight for against the some sort of people that are against the 8th. I know of a few women who have been refused the pill because the person prescribing it refused to do so on religious grounds.....this still happens in modern Ireland.

Incidentally committing suicide is illegal,

What country do you live in?
Suicide was decriminalised in the Republic of Ireland in 1993, so its certainly not illegal to "commit it",

[Deleted User]

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Yes, because discouraging people from having sex worked so well in the past (reference: the Magdalene laundries).

As for the MAP its now been explained to you about 5 times why it isn't possible or medically recommended to take it on a regular basis. Please do some research on it because you just sound ignorant.

Well its very simple, at the moment we dont have abortion on demand, so if someone wants to run the risk of having a child they can either chance having sex and raise the child or they can fund abortion themselves and go to England. Maybe next time they will be a little more careful and take responsibility.

Note I am not talking about those who have been raped, Incest or for medical reasons.

January

Deleted User wrote: »

And there goes morals and decency.

You do realise when you abort you are killing unborn life, abortion should not be something taken lightly.

Abortion isn't something taken lightly, and I can tell you that as a woman who has had an abortion.

[Deleted User]

baylah17 wrote: »

Thats nobodys business but the woman herself.

And there goes morals and decency.

You do realise when you abort you are killing unborn life, abortion should not be something taken lightly.