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France vs Ireland Buildup Thread [MOD WARNING IN OP]

thomond2006

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MOD WARNING: No discussion of the Paddy Jackson/Stuart Olding case in this thread, even if only somewhat related.

This thread is for discussion of the match/build up to the match only.

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FACECUTTR

This is a very long week.....

ionadnapóca

thomond2006 wrote: »

Midi Olymique's probable XV:

Poirot, Guirado, Slimani, Iturria, Vahaamahina, Camara, Macalou, Gourdon;
Machenaud, Jalibert, Vakawata, Lamerat, Doumayrou, Thomas, Palis

I've never seen Jalibert play but this is quite the debut if true. He only turned 19 in November.

Good pack. Well front row anyway
I’ve seen another prediction on a France Eurosport or something
Priso, Guirado, Slimani,
Gabrillagues, Itturia,
Macoulo, Gourdon, Tauleigne;

And GThornley gues
Ben Arous, Guirado, Slimani, Vahaamahina,Lambey,
Camara, Gourdon, Tauleigne;

Out of interest how did you get that midi Olympique article? Do you have to subscribe?

stl.ire

thomond2006 wrote: »

Midi Olymique's probable XV:

Poirot, Guirado, Slimani, Iturria, Vahaamahina, Camara, Macalou, Gourdon;
Machenaud, Jalibert, Vakawata, Lamerat, Doumayrou, Thomas, Palis

I've never seen Jalibert play but this is quite the debut if true. He only turned 19 in November.

Would be crazy if they really go with that back 3 against Ireland. Murray and Sexton would box kick and garryowen at every opportunity. It would be suicide. Did they watch the Nov South Africa game?

ionadnapóca

stl.ire wrote: »

Would be crazy if they really go with that back 3 against Ireland. Murray and Sexton would box kick and garryowen at every opportunity. It would be suicide. Did they watch the Nov South Africa game?

Ireland put up a pile of box kicks, cross kicks and garryowens against Vakatawa and Thomas in 2016. Médard was at FB.
They all coped more than adequately.
Don’t know anything about Palis

stl.ire

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Ireland put up a pile of box kicks, cross kicks and garryowens against Vakatawa and Thomas in 2016. Médard was at FB.
They all coped more than adequately.
Don’t know anything about Palis

Palis would be on debut. I have a different recollection of last year. Sexton’s boot controlled things and the 2 French wingers, though they didn’t fall apart were not particularly comfortable.

ionadnapóca

stl.ire wrote: »

Palis would be on debut. I have a different recollection of last year. Sexton’s boot controlled things and the 2 French wingers, though they didn’t fall apart were not particularly comfortable.

Not ideal for Palis alright.
The 2016 game we lost in Paris is the one

stl.ire

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Not ideal for Palis alright.
The 2016 game we lost in Paris is the one

Sorry I forgot we are now in 2018!

My memory of 2016 was that ireland still controlled the game for 60mins through Sexton and Murray but couldn’t make the pressure count as their scrum and line out were poor. Eventually France sneaked it through forward pressure.

Thomas and Vakatawa are not reknowned for their aerial work and Palis would be a debut 15 playing behind a debut 10. Against Ireland of all teams that’s surely asking for trouble.

ionadnapóca

stl.ire wrote: »

Sorry I forgot we are now in 2018!

My memory of 2016 was that ireland still controlled the game for 60mins through Sexton and Murray but couldn’t make the pressure count as their scrum and line out were poor. Eventually France sneaked it through forward pressure.

Thomas and Vakatawa are not reknowned for their aerial work and Palis would be a debut 15 playing behind a debut 10. Against Ireland of all teams that’s surely asking for trouble.

Ireland ran out of road and rarely got over the gain line.kept having to kick possession away on a rainy night and France coped well with the aerial bombardment.
I’m hoping for a dry night in Paris and that Aki will give an alternative distribution option to Sexton.

[Deleted User]

Rumour mill saying Ryan is starting

arsebiscuits1

Deleted User wrote: »

Rumour mill saying Ryan is starting

James not John I presume?

I wonder who he gets the nod ahead of. My head says Henderson. But I think that would be harsh.

Would also be harsh dropping Toner. He's been fantastic this season. Especially against Montpellier

kuang1

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

James not John I presume?

I wonder who he gets the nod ahead of. My head says Henderson. But I think that would be harsh.

Would also be harsh dropping Toner. He's been fantastic this season. Especially against Montpellier

Toner more likely to start if it was to be with Ryan I think.
The battle hardened and well seasoned Devon would be a better escort for Ryan with the added advantage of being clubmates too.

Edit: I love Henderson but I'd be ok with him benching. He's played very well in a green jersey regardless of whether or not he starts a game.

Podge_irl

You'd have to think they would be mad to drop Henderson rather than Toner though - he's just a better player. Henderson/Ryan would seem somewhat callow

Buer

Henderson is a Lion with 30+ caps for Ireland and has captained his province. I reckon it's time for him to step into a leadership role.

Toner's spot in the 23 must be under threat as he's not someone that offers much off the bench in terms of short term impact.

arsebiscuits1

Buer wrote: »

Henderson is a Lion with 30+ caps for Ireland and has captained his province. I reckon it's time for him to step into a leadership role.

Toner's spot in the 23 must be under threat as he's not someone that offers much off the bench in terms of short term impact.

I agree, Toner probably starts or doesn't play at all.

But I think his importance as a player is sometimes understated. Especially this year I have noticed he has upped his aggression a lot and he's also carried a huge amount.

[Deleted User]

Buer wrote: »

Henderson is a Lion with 30+ caps for Ireland and has captained his province. I reckon it's time for him to step into a leadership role.

Toner's spot in the 23 must be under threat as he's not someone that offers much off the bench in terms of short term impact.

Threat from who, Dillane? Can't see that at all. He's been playing really well this season and I'd be very surprised if he didn't start.

thomond2006

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Out of interest how did you get that midi Olympique article? Do you have to subscribe?

I stole that from a tweet.

[Deleted User]

I can't see beyond Toner / Henderson. I wouldn't put much between either player as Toner is playing better rugby but Henderson probably has a higher ceiling but is stuck with a dire pack.

If Ryan gets ahead of either I'd be really surprised. It would be an indicator though that he is performing to an incredibly level in training and is as good as everyone hopes he is.

It's one thing Aki coming straight in when we only had Henshaw available as an experienced first choice, but James Ryan leapfrogging either Toner or Henderson would probably be unprecedented for Joe Schmidt.

It would certainly make all those who have accused him of being conservative over the years look mighty foolish.

One of Toner or Henderson might also have a knock, we won't know until Paul Kimmage writes an article after the fact about how it was all a cheap ruse.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

Henderson is a Lion with 30+ caps for Ireland and has captained his province. I reckon it's time for him to step into a leadership role.

Toner's spot in the 23 must be under threat as he's not someone that offers much off the bench in terms of short term impact.

I think I forget how experienced he is cause he looks about 15.

[Deleted User]

I've been enormously unimpressed with Henderson for Ulster this season. He's had a couple of big performances at home but this is a player who is touted as 'world class' (whatever that means) and seeing him play so poorly against Leinster, or against Wasps, or against Connacht, world class players don't fail to turn up like that. Hopefully he can raise his game for Ireland.

irishbucsfan

L'Equipe's team.

https://twitter.com/pauleddison/status/958338189181276160

Noone has a clue what they're going to do.

[Deleted User]

Interested Observer wrote: »

I've been enormously unimpressed with Henderson for Ulster this season. He's had a couple of big performances at home but this is a player who is touted as 'world class' (whatever that means) and seeing him play so poorly against Leinster, or against Wasps, or against Connacht, world class players don't fail to turn up like that. Hopefully he can raise his game for Ireland.

The most I've heard anyone say about Henderson is that he has the potential to be world class. He isn't there yet by any means, but he looked a more serious overall proposition coming back from the Lions and in the Autumn internationals.

He is being massively stifled by playing in that Ulster pack though, and the sheer frustration of someone wanting to push on but being hamstrung by those around you is going to eventually impact your game.

thomond2006

This would be a big decision to start Ryan.

Then again, France are not good and we'll win comfortably.

:pac:

Jump_In_Jack

irishbucsfan wrote: »

L'Equipe's team.

https://twitter.com/pauleddison/status/958338189181276160

No one has a clue what they're going to do.

FYP

baas baa

Starting Ryan over Toner would be an indication to me that we’re looking to go with a more expansive gameplan, some interesting comments last week from Schmidt on how the younger forwards are more comfortable handling the ball. Would be great to see us have a cut at France in that way, you’d expect them to lack a bit of organization with all the recent changes and inexperience in the squad.

[Deleted User]

baas baa wrote: »

Starting Ryan over Toner would be an indication to me that we’re looking to go with a more expansive gameplan, some interesting comments last week from Schmidt on how the younger forwards are more comfortable handling the ball. Would be great to see us have a cut at France in that way, you’d expect them to lack a bit of organization with all the recent changes and inexperience in the squad.

I'd have said the opposite. Toner has some of the best hands of any of our forwards and can be placed anywhere on the lineout to secure and deliver the ball out the backs pretty reliably. The way Ireland play off the set piece is quite critical and Toner is central to this on top of being a good link man.

The one advantage Ryan might have albeit I'd be surprised is if we're getting better returns from his activity at the breakdown and faster ball on average from the quality of his clear outs. Toner struggles sometimes to leverage enough power to really lift lads out of the way and Ryan has already garnered attention for his power in low contact and ability to position himself for very impressive drives off the deck.

Ryan is far more athletic also but this would indicate a more direct game plan with the forwards holding onto more ball.

I imagine if he is picked in the starting 15 it will be the first question Joe gets asked. Unless he also picks Larmour in the first 15.

pc7

Head Friday, back Sunday, hoping to see a game this time after last time we tried and it was Frozen off! I remember it being desolate near the stadium, is there anywhere near to watch the welsh game before going in?

[Deleted User]

Honestly if there's any truth to this Ryan rumour I think it could be for Henderson and not Toner.

Having said that I would be pretty confident it'll be Henderson/Toner.

Former Former

pc7 wrote: »

Head Friday, back Sunday, hoping to see a game this time after last time we tried and it was Frozen off! I remember it being desolate near the stadium, is there anywhere near to watch the welsh game before going in?

Yeah, there's a (rubbish) Irish pub right beside the train station.

OldRio

irishbucsfan wrote: »

L'Equipe's team.

https://twitter.com/pauleddison/status/958338189181276160

Noone has a clue what they're going to do.

'Blockbuster'*

* For posters of a certain age.

baas baa

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd have said the opposite. Toner has some of the best hands of any of our forwards and can be placed anywhere on the lineout to secure and deliver the ball out the backs pretty reliably. The way Ireland play off the set piece is quite critical and Toner is central to this on top of being a good link man.

The one advantage Ryan might have albeit I'd be surprised is if we're getting better returns from his activity at the breakdown and faster ball on average from the quality of his clear outs. Toner struggles sometimes to leverage enough power to really lift lads out of the way and Ryan has already garnered attention for his power in low contact and ability to position himself for very impressive drives off the deck.

Ryan is far more athletic also but this would indicate a more direct game plan with the forwards holding onto more ball.

I imagine if he is picked in the starting 15 it will be the first question Joe gets asked. Unless he also picks Larmour in the first 15.

If Ryan is selected over Toner it'll be for his carrying and athleticism. I think we'll be looking to keep hold of the ball, play at a higher tempo and force the French players into making more decisions in defence. I still expect Toner to start.