Mining For Beginners

And electricity in Ireland is relatively cheap. Provided of course you pick the best deal every year (most people seem to never do this :eek:)

24h (day/night) meter is free of charge with free installation. Typical cheapest day rate is then 14c and night rate 7c. The night rate applies for 9 hours a day, so 14 * (15/24) + 7 * (9/24) = a bit over 11c incl VAT per kWh on average

I'm interested in mining on solar energy myself

oo7tk

Prezatch wrote: »

This is absolute bull. I am actually shocked that someone with as many posts would make such an ill informed sweeping statement. For the record, I have built a rig - I'll post a comprehensive response tomorrow regarding how I did it, what it cost, revenue and operating costs. I found it quite straightforward but have built a pc before.

That would be great thanks, would have no problem paying you in a bit if BTC with a hand in setting something up

Oh and it’s boards.ie there is always one to make a response like that..

Thanks, looking forward to your post if you can let me know when it’s up

Prezatch

Following on from my post above:

Rig build and cost:
GBP EUR
Intel Celeron G3900 35 41
Kingston SSD 120GB 45 52
Palit 1070ti x 2 840 979
8GB DDR4 73 85
Asus Z270A motherboard 115 131
EVGA G2 850w 130 151
Aero 1070ti x 3 1357 1593
GPU risers 6 pack 21 24
Voltage meter 5 5
EVGA GQ 850w 111 130
1 to 4 pci extender 23 26
GPU risers 6 pack 26 30
Additional PCI cables 21 24
Motherboard standofffs 4 5
Triple PSU cable 3 3
Shipping 36
Timber for frame 30
3345

The cost of the rig was split 3 ways between myself and two friends so 1,115 each. One of whom has a large house in the country with cold rooms, ideal for the rig. Another did woodwork for the leaving so was tasked with the frame. I provided the tech knowledge.

The above rig contains 5 GPUs in total but I have all of the equipment needed to expand it up to 12 which is the maximum that this motherboard can take if I get the cards and a third power supply. Each power supply has 4 VGA ports so can support 4 cards and with the additional pci cables I have split each 8 pin to an 8+6 pin to so that the cards take the 8 pin and the riser takes the 6 pin. The risers come with PCI to sata cables but these are not recommended. Use a dual or triple psu cable to connect up all of the power supplies so that they turn on and off in sync with each other (or just use the paper clip trick on youtube which works fine). Everything was bought either on amazon.co.uk or ebay.co.uk using the parcel motel UK shipping address to get them to Ireland.

I took initial inspiration from a guy on youtube called iMineblocks and his '13 gpu rig' (he ends up just using 12). I used the same frame design as him (each frame supports 6 and they can be placed beside each other). He gives out the exact measurements in one of his videos. I also used another video from Cryptomined 'Asus z270-A 12 GPU rig' which shows how this motherboard can be used for 12 cards. And one other video that explains how best to set up the bios for this motherboard.

We chose Nvidia 1070ti cards as they are new and efficient and will have better resale value over AMD. They were also reasonably priced at the time but have since release increased dramatically from 420 GBP to circa 530 GBP. Advice would be to get the cheapest version of whatever card you get, which is usually the blower style. Minimal performance difference between different versions.

Software and coins mined:
The rig runs on Windows 7 and the gpu drivers are just downloaded from Nvidia. I use teamviewer to remotely access the rig, awesome miner to control the miner and send me email notifications if something is wrong and the actual miner I use is EWBF's Cuda miner. Different cards are more efficient at mining different coins, AMD generally good for Ethereum, Nvidia generally good for coins on the Equihash algorithm such as Zcash or Zclassic (ZCL). Use whattomine.com to see. MSI Afterburner allows me to under volt the cards to save electricity and overclock the cards. The cards are undervolted to 135w from 180w. Sounds complicated but is actually very easy. If you push it too hard, the screen will start to show artifacts or just crash the miner and/or system. Reddit/bitcointalk.org generally is good for getting other users' undervolt/overclock numbers.

Revenue and operating costs:
This can be quite dependent on fluctuating prices and fluctuating mining difficulty which can go both up and down. But in total, this 5 card rig produces around 2580 sol/s when mining ZCL. I'm still waiting on the voltage meter to arrive so am not sure exactly what it is pulling at the wall in terms of electricity but I predict around 900w (135w * 5) + 150w for motherboard/hd + 15w for each riser. The pool mining fee is 1% on suprnova. Electricity is 16.2c per kw. 900w for 30 days = 648kw * 16.2c = €105 monthly cost.

Coinwarz calculator shows income currently at 2580 sol/s = $618 = €495. So net income each is €132 a month on an investment of €1,115 = 8.4 months return on capital. However ZCL is currently trading at 131 dollars and peaked at 231 dollars earlier this month. This can greatly affect the return. We are holding the currency in a wallet and obviously hoping for price increases. I am a converted believer in crypto and I think most of the main coins will continue to rise in 2018. So in my mind it will make the money back much faster and even if it doesn't 8.4 months is bloody awesome for making a 100% return by anyone's standards. Added to that is the fact that hardware is currently appreciating not depreciating in value. Added again to this is the fact that we have already invested in a second PSU which is only 25% utilised at the moment and the motherboard is only 42% utilised. So scaling up will increase profit. But for now, Nvidia cards are a little pricey.

One of the LEDs on the aero cards never worked as you can see but card functions fine. This picture was taken before I got the additional PCI cables.

Great post Prezatch. Have you measured the bandwidth used for the above and factored that in to the running cost, or is it significant?

Prezatch

smacl wrote: »

Great post Prezatch. Have you measured the bandwidth used for the above and factored that in to the running cost, or is it significant?

Bandwidth is minimal, my friend lives out in the sticks and can only get wireless broadband which is about 5-7mb. Ping is around 70-100 on speedtest.net and this works fine. The software only needs to send and receive small signals and responses not huge chunks of constant data. We used some spare AV500 homeplugs to get internet into the storage room where the rig is.

Dades

Thanks for posting. Really interesting.

I'm guessing the radiator in the last pic isn't turned on much!

Prezatch

Dades wrote: »

Thanks for posting. Really interesting.

I'm guessing the radiator in the last pic isn't turned on much!

The house was originally built before electricity was invented so some of the unused rooms in it get pretty damn cold :pac:

Tinder Surprise

I am gonna start CPU mining Electroneum as a bit of a hobby but I'm looking for a bit of help with writing a script file for CPU mining.

I want to run the script on a number of machines stealthy, as don't want to install a GUI or have anything visually running on screen.

So far I have signed up for a Mining Pool account and also have a ETN wallet setup.

So looking for advice on how to create a script file for the above, plus which mining software to use to run it on (keeping in mind the above preferences)
Totally appreciate it wont make much money but a couple of ETN coins a day from each machine would be a good start into the world of mining, and learn the ropes a bit.

oo7tk

Have got a couple mates interested in this idea also so could have up to €5-6k to spend on a rig now.. Now just to read and gather as much knowledge as possible..

We are all in crypto for the past year or so but pretty new to mining..

We can claim VAT back on the hardware and electricity so will hopefully work out good..

Where is best to buy the hardware??

ED E

Note: I mined LTC and BTC for fun in 2012 and 13.

unkel wrote: »

I disagree. For €2k you could build yourself a very well performing 6 card rig based on 6 * RX570 / RX 580 4GB @ GBP 200 each and now and then available. The rest of the money will easily cover the rest of the rig. A big mistake is to overpay on the GPUs

At todays ETH rate, this will generate about €10 per day (after electricity costs), or a full pay back of well under a year, which is an amazing return on a low risk investment. Even if all crypto was worthless the day you started to mine, you could break up your system and sell on for a total loss of a few hundred EUR (worst case scenario)

Don't kid yourself though. It's a steep learning curve and it takes up a lot more of your time than you'd have thought. Their is also quite a bit of downtime unless you carry loads of spare parts. The bigger your operation, the more profitable it is

Why don't you just buy one GPU (GBP200), stick it into any old €50 PC from adverts (if you don't have one lying around) and give it a go?

December 12: 1556
December 26: 1865

Thats 19% every two weeks. Lets round off and say 2.5m per doubling.

€10 now
€5 in 2.5m
€2.50 in 5m
€1.25 in 7.5m

Your time to ROI starts getting a lot closer to never than 1yr unless ETH prices rocket up month over month. But then you're gambling on a rise in ETH, may as well buy it now and sell in a year. Profit margins are way higher.

Adaptively mining adds a little more light to the picture but its still a much more dubious proposition than people like to make out.

The chinese are paying 4-5c US per KWH. You're paying 23+ even if you shop around annually. Yes you can offset some against home heating if you like, but its not a straight right down.

opus

unkel wrote: »

^^ I wouldn't buy a 1050ti, they have a poor hash rate for the money. It's no wonder they're still available

Good question. The higher the value of the coin, the more interesting it becomes mining it (this depends on the value of other minable coins too), so more people are going to mine it, the difficulty goes up and so the payout goes down. As it stands, the availability of decent graphic cards for reasonable money is poor, so the difficulty is not going up by much. All this can change of course!

Some people change what coin they mine all the time, based on the highest profitability. There are even websites that tell you what to mine, based on your hash rates and your electricity costs

I'm really just doing this out of interest in the topic, don't expect it to do much more than maybe pay back the cost of the card as the power is free as in somebody else is paying for it

ED E wrote: »

you're gambling on a rise in ETH

No I'm not. Have you read any of my other posts in this forum about my mining? I went into mining as a very low risk investment strategy. Mine and sell. Worst case scenario is if all coins become worthless overnight, my maximum loss is the depreciation on my hardware

ED E wrote: »

The chinese are paying 4-5c US per KWH. You're paying 23+ even if you shop around annually.

Where do you get all this from? How could you get this so wrong?

I've seen you posting on boards tech forums for numerous years and I nearly always agree with your posts, but you are very off the mark here.

For starters, I'm paying 0c per kWh used for mining. I'm on a fixed price contract with Just Energy. The second best deal at the moment is with Energia who offer something like 13c day and 6.5c night, so average 11c. I don't know where you get your 23c from???

ED E wrote: »

Your time to ROI starts getting a lot closer to never than 1yr unless ETH prices rocket up month over month. But then you're gambling on a rise in ETH, may as well buy it now and sell in a year. Profit margins are way higher.

Ok, very new to this, but surely the risk isn't that the cost of mining a given coin such as ETH rises so much as the cost of mining and the value of the coin diverge. I had thought the cost of mining tends to track the value of the coin to large degree, so your ROI isn't going to be affected to the degree you suggest above.

opus wrote: »

I'm really just doing this out of interest in the topic, don't expect it to do much more than maybe pay back the cost of the card as the power is free as in somebody else is paying for it

Also doing this on a tiny scale at the moment. FWIW, over 24 hours yesterday, the RX570 generated 0.0076 ZEC on Minergate which according to coinmarketcap is $3.51 or €2.83. The PC the card is connected to is a server that would be on any way, and I'm guesstimating it is taking no more than 200w extra for the GPU. Checking my last bill, I'm paying 18c per Kw/H which comes to 86c for electricity, so the card is netting €1.97 per day. The card cost €249 shipped, so at that rate it should pay for itself in 126 days or just over 4 months. I'm flat out at work at the moment, so won't be doing much more than this for the next few weeks, but would hope to put together a larger rig after that.

I was planning on mining ETH, but the RX570 is only generated 11 MH/s where I was expecting about 23-24. Reading up I'm guessing this is because I left the old GPU in situ. Also interesting, the rate at which ZEC is generated doesn't seem to be affected by the GPU intensity I set within Minergate. While it is a very quick and easy way of getting into mining, it seems limited in terms of performance tweaking, so I'll be looking at other software is also on the cards.

ED E

unkel wrote: »

No I'm not. Have you read any of my other posts in this forum about my mining? I went into mining as a very low risk investment strategy. Mine and sell. Worst case scenario is if all coins become worthless overnight, my maximum loss is the depreciation on my hardware

Where do you get all this from? How could you get this so wrong? I've seen you posting on boards tech forums for numerous years and I nearly always agree with your posts, but you are very off the mark here.

For starters, I'm paying 0c per kWh used for mining. I'm on a fixed price contract with Just Energy. The second best deal at the moment is with Energia who offer something like 13c day and 6.5c night, so average 11c. I don't know where you get your 23c from???

I was unclear, using USD as the common currency, 23c US being about 19c. As an BEV driver IIRC maybe you're way more up to date on energy pricing. Seems like 17c is more typical. Is your fixed price one of the plans that's only good for year 1 until the "recalculation"?

smacl wrote: »

Ok, very new to this, but surely the risk isn't that the cost of mining a given coin such as ETH rises so much as the cost of mining and the value of the coin diverge. I had thought the cost of mining tends to track the value of the coin to large degree, so your ROI isn't going to be affected to the degree you suggest above.

Your direct costs stay the same, but your output decreases.
Say 500 kHashes produces 1 COINX per day
You pay €1/day to run that rig
Difficulty doubles over 3 months
You still have 500kH, pay €1/day to run, but you get 0.5 COINX for that same cost base and initial CAPEX.

So they only way to flatline that is for COINX to double in value in 3 months.

In my example of ETH that held roughly true but thats not a given. As circulating supply increases over time the artificial scarcity could lose weight.

@Unkel: Liquidating the hardware does protect you - unless there's a firesale/flood. 1000s of 1070s being suddenly sold off could tank prices.

ED E wrote: »

Your direct costs stay the same, but your output decreases.
Say 500 kHashes produces 1 COINX per day
You pay €1/day to run that rig
Difficulty doubles over 3 months
You still have 500kH, pay €1/day to run, but you get 0.5 COINX for that same cost base and initial CAPEX.

So they only way to flatline that is for COINX to double in value in 3 months.

In my example of ETH that held roughly true but thats not a given. As circulating supply increases over time the artificial scarcity could lose weight.

Fair enough. While I'm guessing mining costs are likely to track coin value to some extent, as I say I'm very new to this so the easiest (albeit not very quick) way to check this is by experiment. On my current tiny setup I've spent €249 and have running costs of 89c per day. Were current mining conditions and market value to hold, I'd have paid off my up-front costs in over 4 months and be in profit thereafter. From what you're saying, I'm not likely to actually every reach this point. You could well be right, so what I'll do is keep a log and post back every now and again.

My feeling is that the adaptive nature of GPU based versus ASIC mining is such that existing GPU miners are likely to be profitable until such time as the manufacturers mass produce more cards with a higher price performance ratio. Time will tell.

ED E wrote: »

Seems like 17c is more typical.

More like 11-12c. Have a look for yourself on bonkers.ie. Changing to a night rate meter is free

ED E wrote: »

Is your fixed price one of the plans that's only good for year 1 until the "recalculation"?

Only 1 year. Then I'll switch to Energia and I will pay 11-12c. I'm also considering getting solar PV installed on my roof. Something I wanted to do for a long time, but if you don't always use the full production, it makes no financial sense. If you mine, it makes a lot more sense!

ED E wrote: »

@Unkel: Liquidating the hardware does protect you - unless there's a firesale/flood.

Indeed. I did not overpay for any of my cards though. If I sold them all today, I'd make a profit. In fact I sold 2 cards a few days ago that I bought for €220 and €200 second hand a few months ago. The both sold for €265 (after making me about €100 each in coin). They were inefficient old R9 390s - solid cards for mining though!

I'll most likely sell more cards when it will get warmer this summer. And probably end up with one large rig once I have to start paying for electricity again next September. By that time I expect to be well past full ROI

There is no other low risk investment strategy out there with returns anywhere near cryptomining, provided you invest carefully. I'm also saving about €300 on my heating bills this winter. An added bonus

MaxWick

Would anyone be interested in setting up a "Crypto Mining Facility" in Dublin?

I'm currently looking to rent out a place with a three-phase power supply so that I can setup all my miners there but it would be a waste to only have my few miners running and wasting the remaining space. I would love to share the space with other people if they could help out with rent or for a percentage of their mining profits. There is a place in Limerick that rents out space for your miners but that's too far for me in case I want to check up on my miners myself etc but at the same time I don't have enough space/AMP at home to run all my miners.

I'd love to hear your opinions on this. Send me a PM if your interested or you can join the mining group on Telegram https://t.me/joinchat/Fst09g9AvWQZw6worEG0sg

smacl wrote: »

I've spent €249 and have running costs of 89c per day. Were current mining conditions and market value to hold, I'd have paid off my up-front costs in over 4 months and be in profit thereafter.

And don't forget, you will then own the fully paid off €249 GPU. Even if it will be worth only half what you paid for it (firesale situation / all coin worthless), it means you have made a 50% return on investment in only 4 months)

Which is an exceptionally good ROI for a low risk investment

Dr Bolouswki

I'm the one who bought the 390's from Unkle - and with a bit of bios editing and underclocking they are pretty power efficient. I don't mind him making a profit - that's business!

Regardless, as I am on flat rate power AND that mining Eth will become uneconomical within about 9 months, now is a good time to do it, and then switch to other mining options as the ETH difficulty levels rise. The machines will have already ROI'ed by that point (indeed current ROI for a 6x GPU 170MH/s rig for me is 4 months). so I will be mining whatever I mine for free.

The assertion that you are better off buying and holding does not seem to be accurate to me at all.

A machine costs me €2k to build and delivers 170 MH/s. Ethereum today costs me €1k to buy. In 9 months time, with no change it ETH value, I would have 2.3 ETH if I bought the machine, 2 ETH if I bought ETH.

Oh yeah, and if I bought the machine, I would still have in my hands, that machine available to mine whatever I want, whereas if I just bought ETH, all I would have in my hands would be my own ass as I tried to pull my head out of it.

In either scenario, if the price of ETH rises, both clever man and head up ass man are in the money. If the value of ETH falls, well both can potentially lose, but clever man has a 15% buffer before it hurts him AND still has the expensive mining machine which he can mine other coins, sell to gamers, heat his house... while head in ass man has... his head in his ass.

Dr Bolouswki wrote: »

The assertion that you are better off buying and holding does not seem to be accurate to me at all.

It's a different ballgame. Buying and holding is speculation, you are gambling the coin will go up even further. This is high risk. A gamble rather than an investment.

Building mining rigs (not at inflated parts prices), mining and selling straight away is low risk

With hindsight, I would have made a lot more money if I had held onto my mined crypto. But that wasn't my game. My strategy was low risk. And it is working out. Slowly, but surely. With my invested money never at risk at any time.

Cianos

Would your typical freestanding garden shed be suitable for setting up a mining rig?

h0neybadger

MaxWick wrote: »

Would anyone be interested in setting up a "Crypto Mining Facility" in Dublin?

I'm currently looking to rent out a place with a three-phase power supply so that I can setup all my miners there but it would be a waste to only have my few miners running and wasting the remaining space. I would love to share the space with other people if they could help out with rent or for a percentage of their mining profits. There is a place in Limerick that rents out space for your miners but that's too far for me in case I want to check up on my miners myself etc but at the same time I don't have enough space/AMP at home to run all my miners.

I'd love to hear your opinions on this. Send me a PM if your interested or you can join the mining group on Telegram https://t.me/joinchat/Fst09g9AvWQZw6worEG0sg

I’ve just completed my move to a larger facility.

Here’s some extra info.

1. Most industrial / commercial buildings will have the standard KVA that the ESB connect. 15-30 KVA. This is enough to run a few miners 24/7. You will pay the ESB considerable costs to upgrade further.
I just upgraded mine to 300 KVA, and it cost just over €14k.
ESB upgrades are expensive, but it’s more expensive to downgrade your KVA if done before 18 months. Make sure you have enough mining potential and profit to last that long. Mining is getting more difficult every 15 days or so.

2. You will need a distribution board to supply all sockets. Mine cost €7k.

3. You will need to hire an electrician to certify the board.

4. Lots and lots of sockets and cables.

5. Cooling. If your putting a lot of units in, picture having lots of hair dryers in a room. Even if the room is large, the air will eventually heat up. You need to extract that air. Otherwise the miners heat up and start to shutdown.

6. Security. You’ll need a good alarm, CCTV and what ever else you can get to ensure your hardware is secure.

My facility is in Cork. I have no issue in renting space out to people.
But I’m as I have a lot of equipment, I need to ensure security is upheld. I’m more looking for people to take a back seat and allow me to run their hardware for them, without knowing the location.

Looking for a bit of advice. I have an A3 antminer being delivered tomorrow. I only found out today that the apw++ psu was only dispatched from Bitmain this morning so I'm looking at about 10 days before the psu arrives. Bit of a pain with the mining difficulty increasing very quickly.I'm keen to get the A3 up and running as soon as possible.

I have a Corsair HX1000i psu (i.e. 1000W) running on my ethereum rig. My question is, would it possible to use this psu on the antminer a3 and underclock the A3 until the Apw++ arrives? Anyone with an antminer S9 might be able to advise. Cheers

Does it have 10 pci-e 6 pin connectors? Then I can's see why not. Or you could even use the Corsair + any other ATX power supply with a few pci-e connectors to run the antminer at full speed.

unkel wrote: »

Does it have 10 pci-e 6 pin connectors? Then I can's see why not. Or you could even use the Corsair + any other ATX power supply with a few pci-e connectors to run the antminer at full speed.

It has pci-e 6+2 (double head, I'm not sure what the technical term is but each connector splits and goes into two gpus) so I'm guessing if I just plug the 6 pins for the 1000W Corsair for the two boards and pick up another 500W for the third board, should that do the job do you reckon?

h0neybadger

thunderdog wrote: »

It has pci-e 6+2 (double head, I'm not sure what the technical term is but each connector splits and goes into two gpus) so I'm guessing if I just plug the 6 pins for the 1000W Corsair for the two boards and pick up another 500W for the third board, should that do the job do you reckon?

Yeah that should do it.

If your stuck and it doesn't work, let me know. I have a few spare PSU's from Bitmain and Canaan that will work.
You can borrow one. I'm located in Cork.

h0neybadger wrote: »

Yeah that should do it.

If your stuck and it doesn't work, let me know. I have a few spare PSU's from Bitmain and Canaan that will work.
You can borrow one. I'm located in Cork.

Cheers, I’ll look at picking up a 500w in dub tomorrow and see how I get on. I’ll let you know if it all goes up in flames!;)

thunderdog wrote: »

Cheers, I’ll look at picking up a 500w in dub tomorrow and see how I get on. I’ll let you know if it all goes up in flames!;)

Got the A3 up and running last night with two psu. Not the tidiest looking but it will do the job until the bitmain power supply arrives. Next step, figure out some diy soundproofing