david75 wrote: » A foetus isn’t a child though. Are you confused about that? It would seem so.
Eire212 wrote: » Hi JC, I guess no, a christian cannot vote for unlimited abortion in any case, then again, i'm not too familiar with how your religion dictates and limits your choices in life. It also sounds like you've answered your own question to be fair. "NO". As a non believer, i feel abortion should be legal in ANY circumstance. So i say "YES"
Nick Park wrote: » So, your argument is that we should abandon our Constitutional say on the matter, and instead hand it to people who, in your own words, are cowards who will take any position based on whether it suits them rather than on matters of principle. Do you see why some of us might find that argument less than convincing?
david75 wrote: » Where did I say abandon our constitutional say? We’d get nothing done if left to the Irish govt and the redundant backward mentality of the church and it’s few remaining sheeple were allowed maintain Their cold unwanted grip on our society. Leo’s non position is totally self serving. Protecting his hide politically. That much is obvious to anyone with eyes. Then he gets upstaged by Michael Martin saying FF support repealing the 8th and giving it full throated support. You’re really really screwing up if the weasel Martin is making you look bad. We will repeal the eighth amendment. Women will have access to proper healthcare here in Ireland. The sky will not fall.
end of the road wrote: » abortion for the most part is not health care. only in the circumstances i listed earlier is it health care, and that could be implemented via the existing law that allows for abortion in extreme circumstances. large scale industirial killing of the unborn will take place if unrestricted and on demand abortion is allowed, which will damage our society.
david75 wrote: » Where did I say abandon our constitutional say?
Nick Park wrote: » When you advocated removing the clause in our constitution that prevents abortion on demand, and leaving the matter in the hands of politicians.
Cabaal wrote: » This isn't happening, if I decided to import 200 abortion pills tomorrow and I asked the newspaper to come along for the trip no Gardai would touch me. If I handed a pill to a women infront of the papers and she took it....again no Gardai would touch me. I'm not making this up, we've already had the train from Dublin do exactly the above. Nobody was charged or even approached by the Gardai and no pro life groups looked for anybody to be charged either.
end of the road wrote: » there is little support for drug enforcement anyway abortion pills asside. most ordinary people caught with a bit of whatever are usually cautioned or given a very light sentence if bought to court, it's only the big dealers who get actual sentences. the gardai need to do little in relation to the abortion pills as customs are getting the vast majority that are being imported anyway. the people on the train were let have their little stunt because customs are having huge success. it was a way of the gardai trying to get some of the people back on side.
Cabaal wrote: » Excuses excuses, So, are you lobbying the government to charge and to properly charge people for import and use? After all they are used for "murder". You've also not answer my question regarding if your wife, sister or cousin was raped and what you'd do.
end of the road wrote: » i expect the laws of the land to be enforced without fear or favour, regardless of whether i agree with the law or not. it's not up to me to campaign for the forces of the state to do their job, they should do it. but as i said, customs are having great success in stopping abortion pills from getting into the country. they won't get them all but i believe they are getting a massive percentage of them.
Cabaal wrote: » Good to hear you like to see laws enforced and followed, however it seems you only selectively like our laws which is an awful shame. if your wife, sister, cousin was pregnant from rape and she wanted the rapists fetus out of her. Are you honestly saying you would force her to go to term against her wishes and ignoring the mental health issues you will create by putting her through such a continued violation of her body against her wishes? What if she imported some abortion pills and took them (as many women do) are you going to report her to the Gardai since she broke the law. After all you want to see laws enforced.
david75 wrote: » Ah no I get that. It’s just screwed up even in general elections that it suits the establishment MO to have people totally disinterested and not engaging. We have the youngest population in Europe and among the lowest turnouts by them in elections and referenda. That’s really alarming.
Kiwi in IE wrote: » Possibly because they are held on weekdays, during term time and one cannot vote outside of their electorate! Intentional at all? People who study and commute are grossly disadvantaged from what I’ve seen of Irish elections.
end of the road wrote: » i wouldn't be forcing anyone to do anything. the fact is one does not have a right to kill the unborn unless their life is in danger, they are under threat of permanent injury or disability, or the baby cannot be viably caried to term or will not live to term.
david75 wrote: » As I said. It’s very carefully set up that way and changing it doesn’t suit the powers that be. Personally I think voting should be mandatory and fines for anyone not doing their duty but that’s another story.
end of the road wrote: » wouldn't be viable, would take up to much court time and would be costly
it would be undemocratic also.
end of the road wrote: » wouldn't be viable, would take up to much court time and would be costly, it would be undemocratic also. but yeah, certainly worth a thread elsewhere sometime
Cabaal wrote: » Works in Australia so it can certainly be done so to say its not viable is incorrect Thats rather amusing coming from the same person who has previously suggested that a democratic vote should be ignored because it doesn't fit your viewpoint.
Nick Park wrote: » Careful, you're likely to get accused of 'talking out of your behind' for expressing a view on something that, apparently, no-one in the country is talking about. :pac:
ABC101 wrote: » Ever heard a pregnant woman refer to the being inside her as a fetus? When a pregnant woman visits her doctor for a check up, does the doctor refer to the being as a fetus? No to both. Doctors and pregnant women refer to the being as a baby, not a fetus. Leo Varadker made this point some time ago.
david75 wrote: They were called nuns. And they literally stole babes from their mothers and sold them away for their own avericious ends. Jealousy they could never have children. And greed for never enough money.
david75 wrote: » Ever heard of a pro lifer looking after a baby the Moment it appeared in the world and scooping it away and caring about it only until it was cute enough to selll that precious baby to the richest person available as soon as it was cute enough? Yes we have actually heard of those people. They were called nuns. And they literally stole babes from their mothers and sold them away for their own avericious ends. Jealousy they could never have children. And greed for never enough money. stop with your every life is precious bull****. Your hypocrisy is hanging out
end of the road wrote: pro-lifers are very likely part of that campaign.
end of the road wrote: the question itself never mentioned abortion on request. so for all we know it could be abortion in limited circumstances they are in favour of. most of the people who claim to be christian in ireland actually aren't anyway so it cannot be gauged how many actual christians would be in favour of abortion on demand. i'd suspect very few. abortion in limited circumstances may be a different story.
ABC101 wrote: » I merely pointed out that expectant mothers / doctors / midwives etc refer to the unborn as a baby not a fetus. I’ve never personally asked a pregnant mother “how’s your fetus doing?”. I also credited Leo Varadker as stating this publically. WRT some historical adoption instances I fail to understand the relevance to this debate. Adoption is not the same as abortion. If you are unable to discuss in a civil manner various topics of debate then perhaps you should be posting / blogging elsewhere.
