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Child Item

Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

J C

I don't believe that a Christian can morally vote for unlimited abortion.

The Sixth Commandment is very simple and very clear ... 'Thou shalt not kill'.

It means that you cannot kill yourself or another Human Being, except in self defence (or the defence of another Human Being) where no other option is available.
This is the basis for all laws protecting the person and criminalising the killing of other people in Common Law Jurisprudence.

Induced abortion is ethically and morally wrong ... except where the life of the mother is directly threatened and there is no other option available to save her.

This is the current law in Ireland.

Voting to expand Irish Law to allow the unlimited killing of unborn children is not something that any Christian (or other monotheist, indeed) can do in conscience and in clear contravention of the Sixth Commandment of God.

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PopePalpatine

Now I see why some slave-owners used the Bible to justify their actions.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

If you violate your body, you cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

Cabaal

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

What percentage of priests abused children? What percentage of doctors abused children? What percentage of manual workers abused children?

The percentage was low,
However the knowledge of the abuse goes to the very top in the Vatican. When victims came forward the Vatican said they were telling lies. Hell, even last week the current pope called abuse victims liers.

So comparing the abuse by priests to the abuse carried out by the avg joe is disingenuous and you know it.
The only way it would be comparable is if the avg joe abused a child, everyone knew about the abuse and instead of dealing with it they allowed the avg joe to move to another location to abuse again and everyone covered up the abuse and called the abuse victim a lier.

pitifulgod

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

If you violate your body, you cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

Then let a woman make up their own mind on the matter. You can't decide if people wish to "sin" as you view it. Unless you want to reban contraceptives etc.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Cabaal wrote:

The percentage was low, However the knowledge of the abuse goes to the very top in the Vatican. When victims came forward the Vatican said they were telling lies. Hell, even last week the current pope called abuse victims liers.

Yes, you are right. It is scandalous behaviour by a so called pope. He will answer to God for his actions.

Timberrrrrrrr

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

A woman's body is not hers. It is the property of the Holy Spirit.

Litterally baloney:rolleyes:

Mr.H

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote:

What percentage of priests abused children? What percentage of doctors abused children? What percentage of manual workers abused children?

So firstly doctors and manual workers also shouldn't manipulate people into following their beliefs.

Secondly some doctors and manual workers are religious. ALL priests are religious........

And lastly to use an argument of "sure they raped kids too" is a poor way to excuse a horrible act.

Now that I have said that. I have no issue with anyone voting against abortion. Absolutely none. As long as their choice is not because of their religious beliefs. Make an informed choice rather than be told what to think

Cabaal

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

Yes, you are right. It is scandalous behaviour by a so called pope. He will answer to God for his actions.

I'd rather see those with knowledge and those that covered up abuse jailed,
Far more meaningful to the victims then your solution

Mr.H

That's not fair when many priests enter the "hole-y kingdom" of young lads

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Mr.H wrote:

So firstly doctors and manual workers also shouldn't manipulate people into following their beliefs.

Mr.H wrote:

Secondly some doctors and manual workers are religious. ALL priests are religious........

The filthy priests didn't try to manipulate the children. They abused them unforgivably. These priests weren't religious. They were the very opposite.

Mr.H

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote:

Yes, you are right. It is scandalous behaviour by a so called pope. He will answer to God for his actions.

What if there is no god? Then he won't ever answer...........

Spoiler alert

Mr.H

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote:

The filthy priests didn't try to manipulate the children. They abused them unforgivably. These priests weren't religious. They were the very opposite.

I accept that 100%

What I don't accept is covering it up and protecting them from facing justice

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Mr.H wrote:

What I don't accept is covering it up and protecting them from facing justice

I agree totally with you. They might think they have escaped justice, but God will deal severely with them.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Do you believe in God? If you don't believe, then they will escape. Luckily this is not the case.

Mr.H

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote:

I agree totally with you. They might think they have escaped justice, but God will deal severely with them.

Listen I have no problem with god judging them and I hope if there is a god that they will do that.

But in this life more needs to be done while those monsters are still alive. The church needs to stop protecting them. I just fear that in 20 years time the then Pope will eventually allow legal hearings to take place posthumously. Which will be gutting for all the victims that will never get real justice.

To be clear I know it's not moat priests. It's just sad that the good ones have to be tarnished because of the covering up.

Mr.H

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote:

Do you believe in God? If you don't believe, then they will escape. Luckily this is not the case.

I don't believe but that doesn't mean I don't hope your right

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Yes I totally agree with you. The filthy priests are covered up by the filthy bishops, and the so called Bishop of Rome.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

All this behaviour angers the Lord. They will be dealt with swiftly and severely. They have scandalised His Holy Church. They will never see light, only eternal darkness.

Cabaal

fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »

These priests weren't religious. They were the very opposite.

Thats funny, when they said they were sorry the Vatican has accepted it
I think you'll find they are religious.

Being religious doesn't mean you don't do bad things, plenty of horrific things are done in the name of religion and plenty of religious leaders agree with them

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Cabaal wrote:

Thats funny, when they said they were sorry the Vatican has accepted it I think you'll find they are religious.

The Vatican reeks of filthy priests, bishops and cardinals.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

They don't believe in Jesus Christ. They think because He hasn't come yet that He does not exist. They are in for a rude awakening.

david75

So all that having been said, it logically follows that the church should have no say and should not interfere in this upcoming referendum.
Utter hypocrisy of them to even comment on it.

Mr.H

Well of course the church shouldn't get a say. But my question would be to the religious here.

Will your religious views come into your decision when you do go to vote on this issue?

david75

Id imagine it would shape their thoughts on it for sure. Few people of faith I know are simply choosing not to vote. Which is understandable too I guess.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

david75 wrote:

So all that having been said, it logically follows that the church should have no say and should not interfere in this upcoming referendum. Utter hypocrisy of them to even comment on it.

You forget that there are many holy and good priests. When Christ founded His Church, He said that He gave to Peter the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Also He said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, and that He would be with His Church to the end of time.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Of course. The decision you make has eternal consequences for you.

david75

The sad part is every single older person, who this referendum and the abortion issue doesn’t affect anymore whatsoever, will go out and vote and mostly against it yet the younger generations who it absolutely does and will affect won’t engage and vote at all.

people past the age of having kids themselves having a say over the reproductive rights of young women is so unfair. They’ll be dead and gone and this and future generations will be bound to the result.

We need to shake this horrible old grip of the church off. Ireland has moved on and grown up. With luck that’ll be reflected in this referendum passing.

uptherebels

david75 wrote: »

The sad part is every single older person, who this referendum and the abortion issue doesn’t affect anymore whatsoever, will go out and vote and mostly against it yet the younger generations who it absolutely does and will affect won’t engage and vote at all.

people past the age of having kids themselves having a say over the reproductive rights of young women is so unfair. They’ll be dead and gone and this and future generations will be bound to the result.

We need to shake this horrible old grip of the church off. Ireland has moved on and grown up. With luck that’ll be reflected in this referendum passing.

that aint how it works.
While i agree that unfortunately a lot of older people will have their decision influenced by some degree by the ramblings of the church, society cant start deciding who can and cant vote in a democracy. Ireland is either a full democracy or not.

david75

uptherebels wrote: »

that aint how it works.
While i agree that unfortunately a lot of older people will have their decision influenced by some degree by the ramblings of the church, society cant start deciding who can and cant vote in a democracy. Ireland is either a full democracy or not.

Ah no I get that. It’s just screwed up even in general elections that it suits the establishment MO to have people totally disinterested and not engaging.
We have the youngest population in Europe and among the lowest turnouts by them in elections and referenda.
That’s really alarming.

pitifulgod

david75 wrote: »

The sad part is every single older person, who this referendum and the abortion issue doesn’t affect anymore whatsoever, will go out and vote and mostly against it yet the younger generations who it absolutely does and will affect won’t engage and vote at all.

people past the age of having kids themselves having a say over the reproductive rights of young women is so unfair. They’ll be dead and gone and this and future generations will be bound to the result.

We need to shake this horrible old grip of the church off. Ireland has moved on and grown up. With luck that’ll be reflected in this referendum passing.

You'll get a fair few women of previous generations that were never happy with Catholicism dictated their lives I suspect and don't want for it to continue.