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Electrician to Engineer

aido79

I am looking for opinions on doing this course:

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/Pages/Industrial-Electrical-Engineering.aspx

I am currently working as an electrician in Australia (but done my apprenticeship in Ireland) and would really like to move into engineering. The only option to do this in Australia is to study fulltime, which I can't afford to do as I can't afford to quit working.

I realise it is only a level 7 qualification rather than the traditional level 8 degree but am hoping having 15 years work experience as an electrician would improve my chances of gaining employment. I also have an advanced diploma in Industrial Automation and a level 7 qualification in electronics from DIT.

I've been considering a move back to Ireland for a while and am thinking this may be a good way to get my foot in the door with engineering.

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dahamster

aido79 wrote: »

I am looking for opinions on doing this course:

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/Pages/Industrial-Electrical-Engineering.aspx

I am currently working as an electrician in Australia (but done my apprenticeship in Ireland) and would really like to move into engineering. The only option to do this in Australia is to study fulltime, which I can't afford to do as I can't afford to quit working.

I realise it is only a level 7 qualification rather than the traditional level 8 degree but am hoping having 15 years work experience as an electrician would improve my chances of gaining employment. I also have an advanced diploma in Industrial Automation and a level 7 qualification in electronics from DIT.

I've been considering a move back to Ireland for a while and am thinking this may be a good way to get my foot in the door with engineering.

Why would you supplement your existing level 7 with another level 7? You realise to practice as an electrical engineer a level 8 is the minimum requirement?

aido79

dahamster wrote: »

Why would you supplement your existing level 7 with another level 7? You realise to practice as an electrical engineer a level 8 is the minimum requirement?

They are in different fields. The first level 7 is in electronics which has very little similarities to a level 7 electrical qualification.

Your second question is exactly the reason I am posting here. I would like to know if there is a demand for people with a level 7 qualification plus 15 years field experience. I would hope to go on to do a level 8 but at the moment that is not an option.

hyde

You've probably already considered it, but perhaps if you got a job in a larger multinational/government body, you could upskill on their dime, part-time?

I remember hearing of electricians in the ESB getting their engineering degrees that way in the past.

Of course, maybe these are hard places to get into, don't really know (a bit outside my field).

dahamster

aido79 wrote: »

They are in different fields. The first level 7 is in electronics which has very little similarities to a level 7 electrical qualification.

Your second question is exactly the reason I am posting here. I would like to know if there is a demand for people with a level 7 qualification plus 15 years field experience. I would hope to go on to do a level 8 but at the moment that is not an option.

I would suppose it depends on your field experience.Was it in control and automation?, did you do any design, specification work?

Ash.J.Williams

aido79 wrote: »

I am looking for opinions on doing this course:

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/Pages/Industrial-Electrical-Engineering.aspx

I am currently working as an electrician in Australia (but done my apprenticeship in Ireland) and would really like to move into engineering. The only option to do this in Australia is to study fulltime, which I can't afford to do as I can't afford to quit working.

I realise it is only a level 7 qualification rather than the traditional level 8 degree but am hoping having 15 years work experience as an electrician would improve my chances of gaining employment. I also have an advanced diploma in Industrial Automation and a level 7 qualification in electronics from DIT.

I've been considering a move back to Ireland for a while and am thinking this may be a good way to get my foot in the door with engineering.

Automation seems to be booming here and electricians are great automation engineers as far as I can see

aido79

hyde wrote: »

You've probably already considered it, but perhaps if you got a job in a larger multinational/government body, you could upskill on their dime, part-time?

I remember hearing of electricians in the ESB getting their engineering degrees that way in the past.

Of course, maybe these are hard places to get into, don't really know (a bit outside my field).

I have considered this but unfortunately due to my lack of experience in a similar role and my location in Australia this has not been an option so far for me. It is something I would definitely be interested in.

aido79

dahamster wrote: »

I would suppose it depends on your field experience.Was it in control and automation?, did you do any design, specification work?

Unfortunately most of my experience has been in construction in mining. I am desperate to get away from this type of work but due to a lack of experience in more technical roles I am finding it difficult to get my foot in the door in control and automation roles. I also have no experience with design or specification work.

aido79

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Automation seems to be booming here and electricians are great automation engineers as far as I can see

This is another reason I am keen to move back to Ireland. In Australia there are very limited opportunities for automation work and all would involve a costly relocation for me.
Do you have any advice on what companies may be hiring electricians for automation roles with a view to working towards becoming an automation engineer?
Feel free to send me a PM if you think that might be better.

Turbulent Bill

Given your experience and existing qualifications, I don't see the value in a level 7 electrical course. Surely you'd get significant credit for this in a level 8 electrical or automation course, i.e., waive the first two years or so?

I'm not familiar with them any more, but there must be a bunch of modular courses available these days too.

aido79

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Given your experience and existing qualifications, I don't see the value in a level 7 electrical course. Surely you'd get significant credit for this in a level 8 electrical or automation course, i.e., waive the first two years or so?

I'm not familiar with them any more, but there must be a bunch of modular courses available these days too.

Thanks for your input. I have no doubt that I would be able to skip at least the first year and possibly the second year of a level 8 course but unfortunately with a young family full time study is not an option.
What do you mean by modular courses?

2011

dahamster wrote: »

You realise to practice as an electrical engineer a level 8 is the minimum requirement?

Jacobs, ESB International, PM Group, CMH2 Hill to name just a few think otherwise. I know people that work in all of the above with level 7 with the title "electrical engineer", in fact in more than one case they are working as discipline leads. I also know people with only level 7 that are chartered.

Having said that I don't see much point in having two level 7 qualifications.

Turbulent Bill

aido79 wrote: »

What do you mean by modular courses?

Maybe I've the terminology wrong, but courses that are designed in discrete modules rather than your standard 9-5. Often designed for working professionals, i.e., evening and weekend study, together with some intensive face to face work. You chip away at them until you have sufficient credits to graduate.

I'd look into mature student options for courses you are actually interested in. Might even be options for a level 9 qualification given your background, assuming you (and the college) are confident that you have the prerequisites for a level 8 qualification already.

aido79

2011 wrote: »

Jacobs, ESB International, PM Group, CMH2 Hill to name just a few think otherwise. I know people that work in all of the above with level 7 with the title "electrical engineer", in fact in more than one case they are working as discipline leads. I also know people with only level 7 that are chartered.

I'm not sure if my experience and qualifications would be enough to get me a job with one of these companies especially as I left Ireland 10 years ago with no experience in Ireland post apprenticeship hence my intention of using this apprenticeship scheme to get my foot in the door with the likes of the companies you have mentioned.

2011 wrote: »

Having said that I don't see much point in having two level 7 qualifications.

Even if they are in unrelated fields?

aido79

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Maybe I've the terminology wrong, but courses that are designed in discrete modules rather than your standard 9-5. Often designed for working professionals, i.e., evening and weekend study, together with some intensive face to face work. You chip away at them until you have sufficient credits to graduate.

I'd look into mature student options for courses you are actually interested in. Might even be options for a level 9 qualification given your background, assuming you (and the college) are confident that you have the prerequisites for a level 8 qualification already.

Ah I see what you mean now. Unfortunately I do not have access to those type of courses where I am currently living.

Ash.J.Williams

aido79 wrote: »

This is another reason I am keen to move back to Ireland. In Australia there are very limited opportunities for automation work and all would involve a costly relocation for me.
Do you have any advice on what companies may be hiring electricians for automation roles with a view to working towards becoming an automation engineer?
Feel free to send me a PM if you think that might be better.

Most of the large Pharma companies such as BMS and MSD have a large automation dept. I mentioned Electrician as my nephew is studying automation and the advice I was given is to ensure he gets plenty of exposure to Electrical work during the summers.

aido79

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Most of the large Pharma companies such as BMS and MSD have a large automation dept. I mentioned Electrician as my nephew is studying automation and the advice I was given is to ensure he gets plenty of exposure to Electrical work during the summers.

Thanks. I think having the electrical experience will no doubt be of benefit.

I am intending to study Mechatronics. How bright is the future for Mechatronics engineers?

On another note. I will be 40 by the time I start studying and am intending to study fulltime. Will my age be a barrier when I am looking for work after graduating?

stickman1019

Hey Aido, qualified sparky turned Electrical Engineer here.

The course looks nice but at best it is an apprenticeship rather than an actual engineering degree.

I would advise to do full time study but this may not be possible due to your personal circumstances.

Looks like this setup is Level 7 but it would not be recognised in Australia should you want to go back. Also larger multinationals even in Ireland may not view it favourably. May have to start off working for smaller companies which may pigeon hole your career a bit.

Cork IT will offer a reduction in there full time Elec Eng coarse because you are an Electrician; so you could get a Level 7 recognised by Engineers Ireland in just 2 years.
You could do the one year add on for a Level 8 in 2 years part time.

Bottom line it all depends on what you can commit to on a personal level.

aido79

stickman1019 wrote: »

Hey Aido, qualified sparky turned Electrical Engineer here.

The course looks nice but at best it is an apprenticeship rather than an actual engineering degree.

I would advise to do full time study but this may not be possible due to your personal circumstances.

Looks like this setup is Level 7 but it would not be recognised in Australia should you want to go back. Also larger multinationals even in Ireland may not view it favourably. May have to start off working for smaller companies which may pigeon hole your career a bit.

Cork IT will offer a reduction in there full time Elec Eng coarse because you are an Electrician; so you could get a Level 7 recognised by Engineers Ireland in just 2 years.
You could do the one year add on for a Level 8 in 2 years part time.

Bottom line it all depends on what you can commit to on a personal level.

Thanks for the reply Stickman.

I have actually decided not to do the course I mentioned first and am now thinking of doing this one:
http://www.itb.ie/StudyatITB/bn009.html

It means going back to full time study but I'm lucky enough to be in a position to be able to do that. Hoping to get into the second year and then either do the level 8 full time over one year:
http://www.itb.ie/StudyatITB/bn422.html

or part time over 2 years:

http://www.itb.ie/StudyatITB/bntbcpt.html

How do you find the transition from electrician to engineer?

stickman1019

The trade background will help in both your studies an work experience generally older guys going back get stuck on the maths and maybe some of the computer side of things; but this just takes time and effort from my experience. Working as an Engineer requires a different skill set but previous work experiences should help to make the transition easier.

Do you intend on staying in Ireland of moving on again?? The only reason I ask is because if you are moving on again the 1 year add-on will have no accreditation overseas see the below link.
Essentially the 1 year add-on has no standing outside of Ireland. The Level 7 = Level 8 (Engineering Associate).

http://www.engineersireland.ie/services/accredited-courses/associate-engineer.aspx?institute=Institute+of+Technology+Blanchardstown+(ITB)

Another thing to keep in mind is the $$$ as you have been out of the country; you may have to pay increased fees.

aido79

stickman1019 wrote: »

The trade background will help in both your studies an work experience generally older guys going back get stuck on the maths and maybe some of the computer side of things; but this just takes time and effort from my experience. Working as an Engineer requires a different skill set but previous work experiences should help to make the transition easier.

Do you intend on staying in Ireland of moving on again?? The only reason I ask is because if you are moving on again the 1 year add-on will have no accreditation overseas see the below link.
Essentially the 1 year add-on has no standing outside of Ireland. The Level 7 = Level 8 (Engineering Associate).

http://www.engineersireland.ie/services/accredited-courses/associate-engineer.aspx?institute=Institute+of+Technology+Blanchardstown+(ITB)

Another thing to keep in mind is the $$$ as you have been out of the country; you may have to pay increased fees.

I'm probably a bit rusty with the maths but never had much problem with it in the past so not too worried about that.

To be honest I don't know if I'll be staying in Ireland. I have a young family and don't want to keep moving around but I'd like to have the option to return to Australia if things didn't work out so will probably have to reconsider what course to do now that you have pointed out that it has no standing outside of Ireland.

I have looked into the fees and it looks like I would have to pay EU fees as I been outside of Ireland for so long.

stickman1019

My intention was not to deter you from the ITB course; Just trying to make sure you know the whole picture before you jump in. At the end of the day if you did the Level 7 ITB course that is recognised world wide quite easily through the Sydney Accord.

Out of curiosity how much are the EU fees if you don't mind me asking?

aido79

stickman1019 wrote: »

My intention was not to deter you from the ITB course; Just trying to make sure you know the whole picture before you jump in. At the end of the day if you did the Level 7 ITB course that is recognised world wide quite easily through the Sydney Accord.

Out of curiosity how much are the EU fees if you don't mind me asking?

I really appreciate you showing the whole picture. The last thing I want to do at my age is to spend alot of time and money doing a course which will not be of benefit.

In your opinion what are the chances of getting a decent job from the level 7 course?
My Advanced Diploma in Industrial Automation is recognised under the Dublin Accord but I have struggled to find work related to this(although my location may be a factor in that)
At the end of the day it will be worth it if it means getting away from electrical work.

Here are the EU fees. Considering the student contribution for all students is €3000 it's not that much different for the Level 7 course:

" EUROPEAN UNION (EU) FEES

European Union nationals attending full time undergraduate courses at ITB are normally only required to pay the student contribution as described above.

However the following EU nationals will be liable for the total annual fees as per Table 1 below

EU nationals who have not been resident in an EU member state for 3 of the past 5 years,
EU nationals who are following a second or subsequent third-level course, depending on the type and duration of the previous course attended.
Fees are set annually by the Department of Education & Skills.

Table 1

EU Fees - 2017/2018
Total Fees (incl Student Contribution)

Undergraduate Higher Certificate (Level 6)
€3,250

Undergraduate Ordinary Degree (Level 7)
€3,250

Undergraduate Engineering Honours Degree (Level 8)
€4,450
Undergraduate Other Honours Degree (Level 8)
€3,819"

stickman1019

Ah those fees seem quite reasonable to be fair.

Is that Advanced Diploma from EIT by any chance? A Cert 4 in Instro is probably more valuable here in Oz.

Can you get a job on a Level 7?? Depends on the old supply and demand of your job market i.e. Ireland or Australia. I cant really comment on Ireland as I am not living here. Engineering work in Australia can be tough to come across over the last few years particularly for entry level positions.

You will start off in a lower salary and also certain companies may prefer a Level 8 which is natural but you can sell the idea of doing this part time while working; along with all your experience from being an Electrician (this will be your main selling point).

aido79

stickman1019 wrote: »

Ah those fees seem quite reasonable to be fair.

Is that Advanced Diploma from EIT by any chance? A Cert 4 in Instro is probably more valuable here in Oz.

Can you get a job on a Level 7?? Depends on the old supply and demand of your job market i.e. Ireland or Australia. I cant really comment on Ireland as I am not living here. Engineering work in Australia can be tough to come across over the last few years particularly for entry level positions.

You will start off in a lower salary and also certain companies may prefer a Level 8 which is natural but you can sell the idea of doing this part time while working; along with all your experience from being an Electrician (this will be your main selling point).

Yeah I thought they were reasonable too.

The Advanced Diploma is through EIT(18 months online)
I've got a Cert 4 in Instrumentation and have done some instrumentation work but the Cert 4 is not a respected qualification. I learned more about instrumentation from the Advanced Diploma course to be honest.

At the minute I am trying to decide between the course in Blanchardstown or the Mechatronics degree at DCU:
https://www4.dcu.ie/courses/undergraduate/electronics/mechatronic-engineering.shtml

I would hope to be able to get into the second year at DCU so it would 3 years fulltime.

It may come down to finances and whether I can afford to study for 3 years with a young family and getting by on my wife's income and maybe some part time work for myself.

I can't rule out coming back to Australia and so would prefer to have a level 8 degree that would be recognised in Australia so the DCU course wins hands down in that regard.

PhoenixParker

Might be worth looking at building services engineering in DIT too.

Given your situation I would also look at the open university too. Sometimes you can use their credits to get past requirements and move into a higher year, so for instance if you look at the dcu 2nd year course and realise you've covered all of it except maths, do the maths with the OU and start in 3rd year (agree in advance with DCU).

They also have good courses in their own right.

Also look at the UK, they tend to be far more flexible on letting people into advanced courses over there.

aido79

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Might be worth looking at building services engineering in DIT too.

Given your situation I would also look at the open university too. Sometimes you can use their credits to get past requirements and move into a higher year, so for instance if you look at the dcu 2nd year course and realise you've covered all of it except maths, do the maths with the OU and start in 3rd year (agree in advance with DCU).

They also have good courses in their own right.

Also look at the UK, they tend to be far more flexible on letting people into advanced courses over there.

Thanks for your input.

I would have no interest in building services engineering to be honest.

I'll also have a look at the Open University option. I'd never considered that before so cheers for that.

Moving to the UK is not an option for me.

stickman1019

PM sent Aido!

[Deleted User]

aido79 wrote: »

They are in different fields. The first level 7 is in electronics which has very little similarities to a level 7 electrical qualification.

Your second question is exactly the reason I am posting here. I would like to know if there is a demand for people with a level 7 qualification plus 15 years field experience. I would hope to go on to do a level 8 but at the moment that is not an option.

You could attempt to get into equipment commissioning in the pharma industry. You wouldn't be working as an electrical eng so not having the level 8 wouldn't be the end of the world.

Depends what you 15 years experience is in... domestic or industry etc.

Mainly mining experience would make it challenging but not impossible.

I know guys who did full time masters to get into bio pharma and than ended up working with operators who somehow got "engineer" roles..... the rub of the green.

aido79

Augeo wrote: »

You could attempt to get into equipment commissioning in the pharma industry. You wouldn't be working as an electrical eng so not having the level 8 wouldn't be the end of the world.

Depends what you 15 years experience is in... domestic or industry etc.

Mainly mining experience would make it challenging but not impossible.

I know guys who did full time masters to get into bio pharma and than ended up working with operators who somehow got "engineer" roles..... the rub of the green.

This is definitely something that would be of interest to me however I don't think I would have the experience that would be needed for a role like this. Most of my experience is in Industrial construction.

[Deleted User]

I'd consider doing some GMP courses.
Like, you were working on the electrical side of industrial construction

Opportunities in calibration etc could lead to better things too.... you have an industrial automation qualification too. The ole 4-20mA, profibus etc should all be up your street.