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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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sdanseo

road_high wrote: »

It seems in this country we can't plan infrastructure and then when it comes (usually two decades later), we can't build it at an appropriate speed either.

These works on the second most important road in the country should be 24/7. There is no argument to the contrary that should be entertained.

Unfortunately our government cares about getting re-elected.
And the people they're pleasing care about the insignificant tax cuts rather than any meaningful progress.

spacetweek

There's probably a simpler reason. The amount of overtime being one!

MayoSalmon

spacetweek wrote:

There's probably a simpler reason. The amount of overtime being one!

Overtime? Even banks have managed to find a way to open on Saturdays

CeilingFly

sdanseo wrote: »

These works on the second most important road in the country should be 24/7. There is no argument to the contrary that should be entertained.

Unfortunately our government cares about getting re-elected.
And the people they're pleasing care about the insignificant tax cuts rather than any meaningful progress.

I'll have a wild guess that you have no experience in any field connected to infrastructure.

There will be overnight works for some sections, but for the normal everyday work, night work just doesn't make any sense - either here nor in other countries. - And that includes such "superior" countries (sarcasm) as the UK.

It doesn't happen on such major projects unless it's an emergency or requires closure of the road.

sdanseo

CeilingFly wrote: »

I'll have a wild guess that you have no experience in any field connected to infrastructure.

There will be overnight works for some sections, but for the normal everyday work, night work just doesn't make any sense - either here nor in other countries. - And that includes such "superior" countries (sarcasm) as the UK.

It doesn't happen on such major projects unless it's an emergency or requires closure of the road.

I have a degree in Transport Operations and wrote a thesis on motorway safety.

CeilingFly wrote: »

There will be overnight works for some sections, but for the normal everyday work, night work just doesn't make any sense - either here nor in other countries. - And that includes such "superior" countries (sarcasm) as the UK.

It doesn't happen on such major projects unless it's an emergency or requires closure of the road.

I've seen night roadworks in this country let alone in others. Not least when a local road here was resurfaced a couple of years ago, in fact the work was exclusively at night. From the point of view of an infrastructure user affected by the current works (it's adding perhaps 10 mins to the average daily commute and causing a choice between the gauntlet of exceeding 60kmh and being mercilessly tailgated) they make sense when the project is of major infrastrucutral importance and causes disruption. I'll conceed that view isn't founded on a perspective of international best practice in civil engineering or anything. Labourers are for the most hired on contract. Hire more for less time, add on costs of management and handover, antisocial pay, adequate provision of lighting.

For what it's worth I completely agree it's a watse when disruption is not caused. A new motorway or road on a greenfield site, for example.

CeilingFly

sdanseo wrote: »

I have a degree in Transport Operations and wrote a thesis on motorway safety.

I've seen night roadworks in this country let alone in others. Not least when a local road here was resurfaced a couple of years ago, in fact the work was exclusively at night. From the point of view of an infrastructure user affected by the current works (it's adding perhtheaps 10 mins to the average daily commute and causing a choice between the gauntlet of exceeding 60kmh and being mercilessly tailgated) they make sense when the project is of major infrastrucutral importance and causes disruption. I'll conceed that view isn't founded on a perspective of international best practice in civil engineering or anything. Labourers are for the most hired on contract. Hire more for less time, add on costs of management and handover, antisocial pay, adequate provision of lighting.

For what it's worth I completely agree it's a watse when disruption is not caused. A new motorway or road on a greenfield site, for example.

The M7 upgrade is not a "resurfacing" job.

Mantis Toboggan

There's no reason why the enabling work cannot be carried out over weekends. It would certainly speed up progress meaning that the road would be ready sooner. Granted the likes of Roadstone might not be open on Sundays but there's plenty of work which could be carried out regardless.

Carawaystick

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Overtime? Even banks have managed to find a way to open on Saturdays

Theres a small difference between working 48 hours a week to a 168 hour working week...

marno21

24 hour works would be preferable but that would mean getting the overall project done quicker, meaning having to pay the contractors quicker which rules it out.

This project was deliberately staggered to push as much of the funding out as far as possible as most of the money in the Capital Plan comes out in 2020/21/22.

AugustusMinimus

Will be interesting to see how long before there will be calls to push the 3 lanes out to Kildare.

Middle Man

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how long before there will be calls to push the 3 lanes out to Kildare.

Well, upgrading the M7 to three lanes towards a motorway diverge point is common sense, but rail investment should be considered before any further upgrades to the M7.

marno21

Middle Man wrote: »

Well, upgrading the M7 to three lanes towards a motorway diverge point is common sense, but rail investment should be considered before any further upgrades to the M7.

This.

Widening the M7 beyond the M9 merge would be pointless because it's well beyond capacity east of Naas including the M50

Widening to the M9 merge makes sense cos you have 4 lanes going to 2 going out to 3 again. This does negate Naas traffic itself but the M7 itself is above capacit for a 2 lane motorway

sdanseo

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how long before there will be calls to push the 3 lanes out to Kildare.

Middle Man wrote: »

Well, upgrading the M7 to three lanes towards a motorway diverge point is common sense, but rail investment should be considered before any further upgrades to the M7.

marno21 wrote: »

This.

Widening the M7 beyond the M9 merge would be pointless because it's well beyond capacity east of Naas including the M50

Widening to the M9 merge makes sense cos you have 4 lanes going to 2 going out to 3 again. This does negate Naas traffic itself but the M7 itself is above capacit for a 2 lane motorway

It's a lose lose. Capacity for 2 lanes is 38,000 and the AADT for the M7 at Kildare was in excess of 45,000 in 2017.

I'm not sure of the stated capacity for D3.

If you widen it as far as the figures would suggest, you will see a benefit vs doing nothing, even if the D3 section east of Naas isn't touched. But the benefit will be localised to the section that's improved.

It certainly will need to be widened to J14 (40,000 AADT last year) or J15 (32,000) before, for example, widening is needed as far as the M8 (26,000). You just gain and drop a lane at a junction as with the M1 at Lissenhall.

Chris_5339762

Wonder when they'll extend the work zone to J11.

road_high

If they extend to Kildare then it'll be Portlaoise next. Would much prefer see extra capacity on the Kildare and Waterford rail lines.

road_high

Passed this evening and it is rather disappointing to see millions of euro of construction equipment all parked there and not working. One of the busiest and most crucial pieces of road infrastructure in the country deserves and needs this kind of priority attention.

CeilingFly

sdanseo wrote: »

It's a lose lose. Capacity for 2 lanes is 38,000 and the AADT for the M7 at Kildare was in excess of 45,000 in 2017..

AADT is measured both directions, whereas a 2 lanes capacity is for a single direction.

Here's a link to exact traffic flows by hour, by direction and by lane at Kildare town
https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/tfhourdirection.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6&spid=NRA_000000020076&reportdate=2018-01-02&enddate=2018-01-02

AugustusMinimus

Pure fantasy but remember that the original plan was a new motorway between the M50 and Naas.

Would have been good if the road alignment had been the new motorway joining the present road on the South side of the present M7/M9 junction.

Then the present Naas dual carriageway would simply be the M9.

You’d have all Waterford and Naas traffic using this road and all M7 and M8 traffic using the new road.

sdanseo

CeilingFly wrote: »

AADT is measured both directions, whereas a 2 lanes capacity is for a single direction.

Here's a link to exact traffic flows by hour, by direction and by lane at Kildare town
https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/tfhourdirection.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6&spid=NRA_000000020076&reportdate=2018-01-02&enddate=2018-01-02

Are you sure? I'm taking my info from here which very specifically references the entire road, not just a given direction. (pg. 11, table at the bottom)

http://www.tiipublications.ie/library/DN-GEO-03059-01.pdf

road_high

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Pure fantasy but remember that the original plan was a new motorway between the M50 and Naas.

Would have been good if the road alignment had been the new motorway joining the present road on the South side of the present M7/M9 junction.

Then the present Naas dual carriageway would simply be the M9.

You’d have all Waterford and Naas traffic using this road and all M7 and M8 traffic using the new road.

Really, when did they drop this plan? Would have been fantastic!

sdanseo

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Pure fantasy but remember that the original plan was a new motorway between the M50 and Naas.

Would have been good if the road alignment had been the new motorway joining the present road on the South side of the present M7/M9 junction.

Then the present Naas dual carriageway would simply be the M9.

You’d have all Waterford and Naas traffic using this road and all M7 and M8 traffic using the new road.

road_high wrote: »

Really, when did they drop this plan? Would have been fantastic!

Presumably would have tied in with the ghost J8 M50 as I touched on (accidentally) above?

AugustusMinimus

road_high wrote: »

Really, when did they drop this plan? Would have been fantastic!

I’m not sure of the exact plan. The original I believe was to build a motorway between Naas and the M50.

Notice how there is no junction 8 on the M50. This is where it should have ended.

The decision was made with the Ryder Cup in the K Club to just upgrade the Naas DC instead.

CeilingFly

sdanseo wrote: »

Are you sure? I'm taking my info from here which very specifically references the entire road, not just a given direction. (pg. 11, table at the bottom)

http://www.tiipublications.ie/library/DN-GEO-03059-01.pdf

Not certain. But I do know that each lane of a motorway haa a maximum flow capacity of 1900 vehicles per hour

That suggests that the kildare town section is currently running about 55% capacity at max.

jkgvfg

sea12 wrote: »

So is there a plan available of the planned works. Do for the moment it's j8-j10. Are they going to complete this and then move it down to j10-j11.

This question seemed to get lost along the way! The speed limits were announced as going in until Sept18 so I don't know if the plan is to have it 3 lanes opened from J8 to J10 (the old one) or even J9A, by then.

regedit

work has commenced today on the green area around the Naas ball. Assuming they need that for widening the M7

sea12

regedit wrote: »

work has commenced today on the green area around the Naas ball. Assuming they need that for widening the M7

Saw that this evening. It could be a site for their portacabins as offices for the works. Good to see them taking up the soil in the median today aswell. It's slow but it's progress.

Tidyboii

Seen them prepping that this morning alright. Coming onto southbound at J9 is getting a bit sketchy. I think theres going to be a need to lengthen the merge here.
Only a matter of time before someone has no choice but to stop and get rear ended by so.eone not paying attention/looking in side mirror for a gap to merge

Mantis Toboggan

Some work going there today, good to see them finally working on the weekend!

beertons

Why the work down by the ball?

OldMrBrennan83

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