NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

marno21 wrote: »

Did we not know this already? The NBP rollout was always going to take several years, cabling to all the rural premises can't be done overnight.

- does knowing something already make it right?

MajesticDonkey

turbbo wrote: »

- does knowing something already make it right?

The fact that it's going to take 3-5 years is not wrong - the project needs to be done right, and a rollout like this simply takes that length of time. The problem is that it hasn't started yet - it should have been started years ago.

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

The fact that it's going to take 3-5 years is not wrong - the project needs to be done right, and a rollout like this simply takes that length of time. The problem is that it hasn't started yet - it should have been started years ago.

It's beyond a joke. Whatever about doing it right - maybe get started??
Wasters.

MajesticDonkey

turbbo wrote: »

It's beyond a joke. Whatever about doing it right - maybe get started??
Wasters.

Like previous NBPs? (i.e. Three)

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Like previous NBPs? (i.e. Three)

Just because it's taking 3 - 5 years doesn't mean they won't take the 5 years and still end up with a crappy wireless job like before. Taking time doesn't equal fibre to the home for everyone, it just means more years wasted.
Expecting a good outcome because it took ages is foolish.

Here's a another NBP gold nugget: https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/galway-td-slams-length-national-broadband-plan/

Meh !

/M

AidenL

It will probably be more like 5-7 years in reality.

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Like previous NBPs? (i.e. Three)

Or the Group Broadband Schemes before that. This isn't the 2nd attempt. It's at least the 3rd, if not 4th attempt ... and it still ain't done right.

/M

Marlow wrote: »

Or the Group Broadband Schemes before that. This isn't the 2nd attempt. It's at least the 3rd, if not 4th attempt ... and it still ain't done right.

/M

It's pathetic.

listermint

Even the FCC can get this right!

https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/18/fcc-mobile-internet-broadband-replacement/

In the 2018 report, Pai's office concedes that "Mobile services are not full substitutes for fixed services -- there are salient differences between the two technologies."

listermint wrote: »

Even the FCC can get this right!

https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/18/fcc-mobile-internet-broadband-replacement/

Yeah ... but the ministry of non-communications over here sees it as equivalent. Because that's easier to them.

/M

Leo Varadkar

I accept that this is taking far too long and that it is enormously frustrating for everyone waiting for broadband connections in their homes. We anticipate that the contract will be signed this year and probably in the middle of the year. However, it is a very complex and complicated contract, much more so than people might have anticipated. Certainly, the best thing to do now is stick with it and get it signed this year rather than to go back to square one.

Notwithstanding the fact that we are struggling to get this contract sorted for those really important 500,000 premises, we are making progress.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2018-01-24a.165&s=national+broadband+plan#g228

rodge123

KOR101 wrote: »

Leo Varadkar

I accept that this is taking far too long and that it is enormously frustrating for everyone waiting for broadband connections in their homes. We anticipate that the contract will be signed this year and probably in the middle of the year. However, it is a very complex and complicated contract, much more so than people might have anticipated. Certainly, the best thing to do now is stick with it and get it signed this year rather than to go back to square one.

Notwithstanding the fact that we are struggling to get this contract sorted for those really important 500,000 premises, we are making progress.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2018-01-24a.165&s=national+broadband+plan#g228

Truly depresssing stuff.
Before Christmas they were saying it would be early this year when contracts signed I thought?
It just seems to be endless delays...the cynic in me thinks they are purposely delaying In the hope that further premises can be removed from intervention areas

When he says "struggling to get this contract sorted" I think that's just an accurate description of what's happening. The chances of the whole thing collapsing must be high enough at this point.

And this............

Denis Naughten

I acknowledge that the procurement process that was entered into long before my time as Minister is a very complex process. Knowing what I know today, would I have gone down this road if I were Minister? I do not think so. However, we are where we are.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2018-01-24a.290&s=national+broadband+plan#g293

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

And this............

Denis Naughten

I acknowledge that the procurement process that was entered into long before my time as Minister is a very complex process. Knowing what I know today, would I have gone down this road if I were Minister? I do not think so. However, we are where we are.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2018-01-24a.290&s=national+broadband+plan#g293

Jesus that is pretty damning. He usually is so positive about the process.

Pique

Naughton distancing himself from the **** up.

Looks as if he's admitting Eir outwitted him and his dept. by cherry picking for the rural rollout. Pretty dismal work from the dept. and the minister.

AidenL

Bah, it seems its all bogged in post tender teasing out and comparatives.

Must have been some shoddy tender documents, with loopholes which the tenderers are able to exploit.

Edit: Seems its not actually tendered yet? If not, theres no way it will be signed and sealed mid year.

No shovels in the ground till next year.

AidenL wrote: »

Bah, it seems its all bogged in post tender teasing out and comparatives.

Must have been some shoddy tender documents, with loopholes which the tenderers are able to exploit.

Edit: Seems its not actually tendered yet? If not, theres no way it will be signed and sealed mid year.

No shovels in the ground till next year.

The bids are in. That's about it. And there's only OpenEIR and e-Net left.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

AidenL wrote: »

Bah, it seems its all bogged in post tender teasing out and comparatives.

Must have been some shoddy tender documents, with loopholes which the tenderers are able to exploit.

Edit: Seems its not actually tendered yet? If not, theres no way it will be signed and sealed mid year.

No shovels in the ground till next year.

It's at this stage AFAIK.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/state-intervention/Pages/Procurement.aspx

Hopefully there are some leaks to the papers explaining what the latest hold up is.

AidenL

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

It's at this stage AFAIK.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/state-intervention/Pages/Procurement.aspx

If thats where its at, having had a lot of experience of government tendering, and on projects a lot simpler than this, I will be truly amazed if they sign contracts by June.

I hope Im wrong, but if tender documents haven't been issued , and I know how long post tender evaluations can take.......I'm betting towards the end of the year for contract signing.

Then ramp up to get on the ground, I'd be amazed if any ground is broken in 2018.

Just my guess.

oscarBravo

I'm genuinely worried that everyone is laying the groundwork for a cop-out wireless solution, with a percentage of fibre in the easiest areas as a figleaf.

Mark my words: if there's a wireless solution, it will go through the inevitable stages in short order: the first few early adopters will be delighted, then it will be accepted as "better than what we had" as it gets busier, then it will start to creak under the strain of a demand it can't possibly cope with, then it will quickly be overtaken by the orders of magnitude faster services that will be available over fibre, then we'll have a new digital divide and there will be pressure on a future government to subsidise some proper future-proof infrastructure.

I'm blue in the face saying it: wireless is not infrastructure. Anyone who tells you wireless is infrastructure is either a snake oil salesman, or someone who has been gulled by one. There are no exceptions.

rodge123

I find this from Naughten interesting:

We are working with both wireless and mobile operators to exploit the fibre that has been built out and that is being built out across the country to provide people with a broadband solution in the short term. I know one company to which we have allocated broadband spectrum that expects to cover 85% of the country with broadband wireless services by 2019.

He is referring to Imagine I guess.

What's in this for Imagine?
Surely they will be out of business if NBP goes ahead with current numbers and FTTH....their wireless solution wont be a patch on FTTH.

Also .... that's utter bull. Because when the regulation of dark fiber pricing as a whole (be it government Metro networks pricing, forcing Eir to sell dark fiber, etc.), they (Naughten and Co.) weren't interested. Too much hassle/work.

It's one of the things that's needed to bring actual competition on high speed connections to the last mile.

/M

rodge123 wrote: »

What's in this for Imagine?
Surely they will be out of business if NBP goes ahead with current numbers and FTTH....their wireless solution wont be a patch on FTTH.

If they start offering packages at half the price of what they're offering now, they'd still have a good market. FTTH is too expensive for a lot of homes.

If they stick with their current pricing ... then .... meh !

/M

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

It's at this stage AFAIK.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/state-intervention/Pages/Procurement.aspx

Hopefully there are some leaks to the papers explaining what the latest hold up is.

Eir is going to get a new CEO and a new board that reflects the ownership change.

The company cannot have meaningful engagement on the tender until the new management is in place and have made decisions about their strategic choices which is going to take a while.

Marlow wrote: »

If they start offering packages at half the price of what they're offering now, they'd still have a good market. FTTH is too expensive for a lot of homes.

If they stick with their current pricing ... then .... meh !

/M

Good point - there is certainly a lot of price gouging going on. FTTH seems to be certainly just that - very expensive.

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

Eir is going to get a new CEO and a new board that reflects the ownership change.

The company cannot have meaningful engagement on the tender until the new management is in place and have made decisions about their strategic choices which is going to take a while.

Good point. Also my source claims that enet are not happy.

eNet are threatening to bail the NBP and not tender owing to push back against the scale of wireless deployments they propose and to go to court looking for the €10m they spent on the NBP to date. (lets not go into the MAN contract extension worth over €10m that was gifted to them by Naughten last year shall we?).