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Mining For Beginners

oo7tk

So I have been buying crypto for about a year or so now and looking to maybe get into mining with some of my profits I have made to try something different..

Could someone point me in the right direction of a thread or person to learn for beginners... Also if it’s something I think I can manage who or where to buy and what to mine??

Thanks

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grindle

BTC mining requires very expensive ASICs, most mineable alts are mined with GPUs which are now hilariously expensive thanks to crypto-mining.

Depending on currency/algorithm the preferred setup will be AMD or Nvidia or a mix of both to mine multiple currencies/algorithms.

So you'll probably need a PC anyway - or do you have a gaming PC already? Good GPU?

oo7tk

grindle wrote: »

BTC mining requires very expensive ASICs, most mineable alts are mined with GPUs which are now hilariously expensive thanks to crypto-mining.

Depending on currency/algorithm the preferred setup will be AMD or Nvidia or a mix of both to mine multiple currencies/algorithms.

So you'll probably need a PC anyway - or do you have a gaming PC already? Good GPU?

Nope I would need the full setup starting from scratch, looking to invest circa €2k.. Well really wondering would it be a good investment out of my crypto profits..

I have just gotten board with Crypto investing and looking for something different, if I could get something that would be set up and plug and play for that money I would be pretty happy..

From the very small bit I do know it would not be Bitcoin mining more like Litecoin or ZCash..

Can get VAT back on electricity which also helps..

ED E

Just stop now, itll be a terrific money sink.

2K is basic gaming territory, a single effective mining rig is more like six, going smaller just eats your profits. Also, electricity is stupid expensive here which eats you too.

oo7tk

ED E wrote: »

Just stop now, itll be a terrific money sink.

2K is basic gaming territory, a single effective mining rig is more like six, going smaller just eats your profits. Also, electricity is stupid expensive here which eats you too.

Yea no problem was just a thought as I said have gotten board of investing is all... Yea €6k would be out if my range alright, just thought it could be another interesting way to earn crypto..

It would be more than a hobby as the investing is so it’s obviously not that..

Cheers

grindle

oo7tk wrote: »

Nope I would need the full setup starting from scratch, looking to invest circa €2k.. Well really wondering would it be a good investment out of my crypto profits..

Not really a good investment, especially if you're choosing fairly well-known and well-mined currencies.
Most likely you'd do much much better splitting profits into undervalued projects currently being developed or into an ICO that really looks appealing and has huge room to grow with a great use-case.

oo7tk wrote: »

I have just gotten board with Crypto investing and looking for something different, if I could get something that would be set up and plug and play for that money I would be pretty happy..

I wouldn't trust a rig that was already built and mining-ready right down to the mining software being set up - it wouldn't be hard for a slightly knowledgable miner to change the software so they get to skim a percentage of your take. You have to set that stuff up yourself or you're taking a risk.

oo7tk wrote: »

From the very small bit I do know it would not be Bitcoin mining more like Litecoin or ZCash..

LTC requires ASICs too nowadays, GPUs too inefficient.
The best money to be made in mining is if you find a good project relatively early on and it's being developed but their hashrate & difficulty are still low, but you expect the value to rise massively.

oo7tk wrote: »

Can get VAT back on electricity which also helps..

Extremely helpful.

As ED E says though, I wouldn't specifically spend 2k for a single or double GPU miner, waste of funds and too many other parts of that build reducing your ROI.

oo7tk

Guys that’s all I need to know thanks for all the fast comments, I prob don’t know computers well enough to get into mining just had a thought after seeing a few for sale for around that price and thought it was as easy as plug it in and away you go..

ðŸ‘ðŸ¼

unkel

I disagree. For €2k you could build yourself a very well performing 6 card rig based on 6 * RX570 / RX 580 4GB @ GBP 200 each and now and then available. The rest of the money will easily cover the rest of the rig. A big mistake is to overpay on the GPUs

At todays ETH rate, this will generate about €10 per day (after electricity costs), or a full pay back of well under a year, which is an amazing return on a low risk investment. Even if all crypto was worthless the day you started to mine, you could break up your system and sell on for a total loss of a few hundred EUR (worst case scenario)

Don't kid yourself though. It's a steep learning curve and it takes up a lot more of your time than you'd have thought. Their is also quite a bit of downtime unless you carry loads of spare parts. The bigger your operation, the more profitable it is

Why don't you just buy one GPU (GBP200), stick it into any old €50 PC from adverts (if you don't have one lying around) and give it a go?

smacl

Not sure any old cheap 2nd hand pc will do the job, crappy psu may not have connectors to suit card, bios can be problematic too. You also need a full size case. I tried a new 580 on two older Dell optiplexes last week with no joy and ended putting it in a newer self build with modular psu. Don't know what availability is like, but there are cheap enough motherboards for sale to suit 8 gpu rigs. I'd look for one of these, good psu, simple cpu, suitable rack, a couple of gpus and add extra gpus as money permits.

unkel

smacl wrote: »

Not sure any old cheap 2nd hand pc will do the job, crappy psu may not have connectors to suit card, bios can be problematic too

Fair point on the PSU, but you can buy a £0.99 incl shipping double molex to 6+2 pci-e cable on eBay that will do the job even if your PSU is a crappy 300W one that came with your Dell / HP etc. An RX570 4GB will not use more than 160W stock (less if you tune it for mining) and the rest of the system maybe 50W.

Also the BIOS will not be problematic if the crappy old PC is less than about 10 years old. I have a test rig based on a S775 Conroe mobo from early 2008 just sitting in bits on my desk. Literally under €300 can get you mining if you own nothing to start with. You can just use the GPU in the case, no need for any open air frames for just one card.

unkel

And yeah, I bought an older Dell Precision myself a few weeks ago for €20. It was from 2004 and the BIOS was too old for pci-e mining. The thing was a wreck anyway. Took out the PSU and it turns out it's a server grade 650W platinum PSU. But Dell proprietary so no use as a main ATX PSU. But short the G&B and it's grand as a powerful and efficient additional PSU on a dual PSU mining rig. Have a few GBP8 200W Pico PSUs coming my way soon from China hopefully

oo7tk

I would love to have the knowledge to set one up myself but unfortunately don’t... I’ll have to study all the bits you sent me tomorrow at work and investigate it further now..

Thanks

Dr Bolouswki

walkthrough in 4 parts

Here is part one

http://1stminingrig.com/tutorial-ethereum-mining-rig-part-1/

after that, just follow the amazing tendrils of the interwebz. But basically, 6xRX570's gets you approx 6 ETH a year and would cost you maybe €2.5k to buy (even at **** prices). Electricity would be 1200W 24/365 so whatever that costs. If you have free or cheap electricity, its profitable. Its a great learning curve too - way simpler than it initially appears. As unkle says - get one graphics card and a bag of **** system - see if you like it - then once comfortable upgrade parts to allow for a larger deployment.

smacl

unkel wrote: »

And yeah, I bought an older Dell Precision myself a few weeks ago for €20. It was from 2004 and the BIOS was too old for pci-e mining. The thing was a wreck anyway. Took out the PSU and it turns out it's a server grade 650W platinum PSU. But Dell proprietary so no use as a main ATX PSU. But short the G&B and it's grand as a powerful and efficient additional PSU on a dual PSU mining rig. Have a few GBP8 200W Pico PSUs coming my way soon from China hopefully

Also have a couple of old precisions, one (670) still in use for some legacy apps, the other unused for years (620). The PSUs are big and sit under the main casing, but connectors seem standard. Wouldn't fit into any other case. My 670 already runs a bit hot, so don't really want anything else in the box, might try the GPU in the 620 but have a feeling the BIOS will say no.

If I was starting from scratch, I'd look at a mining specific rig based on something like the new Asus B250 mobo and simple frame rack. This would easily let you start with a couple of GPUs and single PSU and add more later as funds became available. Could be delays in getting the parts but €2k is ample to get a build like this started with two or three GPUs. Probably not a big money spinner, but good fun from a hobby build point of view to get to know the technology. Looking at adverts of late, these rigs also seem to fetch way more than they're worth second hand.

opus

unkel wrote: »

Why don't you just buy one GPU (GBP200), stick it into any old €50 PC from adverts (if you don't have one lying around) and give it a go?

Already have a PC with a reasonable CPU (i7-4770) but only the onboard video so tempted to try one GPU more for interest than trying to make cash out of it. Where can you get a suitable GPU for £200 as a bit of a search didn't find anything close to that?

ZeroThreat

Would mining something like groestlcoin or vertcoin with a normal rig yield better returns?

smacl

opus wrote: »

Already have a PC with a reasonable CPU (i7-4770) but only the onboard video so tempted to try one GPU more for interest than trying to make cash out of it. Where can you get a suitable GPU for £200 as a bit of a search didn't find anything close to that?

Prices are all over the place, but the GTX 1050ti gets a decent review for mining and can be got for £156 from Amazon.co.uk. I Picked up a SAPPHIRE Radeon RX270 Nitro 8GB for £217 ex VAT from Amazon a couple of weeks ago but none left at anywhere near that price.

opus

smacl wrote: »

Prices are all over the place, but the GTX 1050ti gets a decent review for mining and can be got for £156 from Amazon.co.uk. I Picked up a SAPPHIRE Radeon RX270 Nitro 8GB for £217 ex VAT from Amazon a couple of weeks ago but none left at anywhere near that price.

Thanks, just ordered one using the £10 off voucher that's valid just for today, good timing on that

smacl

opus wrote: »

Thanks, just ordered one using the £10 off voucher that's valid just for today, good timing on that

Cool. Be interested to hear how you get on. Total noob to mining myself, but thinking of building a small rig at some point in the near future when work is a little less hectic. Thinking multi-GPU with a nVidia and AMD mix.

dumb_parade

Have a look at this website before you spend too much.

http://whattomine.com

Gives you an idea of profits based on different gpus and their hashrates

smacl

dumb_parade wrote: »

Have a look at this website before you spend too much.

http://whattomine.com

Gives you an idea of profits based on different gpus and their hashrates

Great site, allowing 0.25$ / Kwh that has my single RX570 at ~ $2.30 profit per day mining Ethereum, and considerably less on Monero which is what Minergate has been suggesting. So as it stands my new card will take 142 days to pay for itself based on it sitting in an existing unused PC. I reckon I could get a suitable mobo, frame cheap CPU ,good PSU and 4x 1050, memory, SSD, cabling etc... for < €2k (or $2.5k), which if I also threw in my existing GPU would generate $7 per day profit or 357 days to pay off. Leaving my existing card out at starting from scratch makes about $5.50 per day or 454 days to pay off. Changing to 8 x 1050ti cards brings the price up to $3740, profit to about $11 per day, pay off to 340 days.

Of course all of that is adrift in a sea of changing variables that make the predictions very rough, but still fun stuff.

Dades

I'd love to get into but this my time is full already with much less interesting stuff.

Just wondering... if you're mining a particular coin and it doubles in value - does it automatically become twice as lucrative to mine at that point? Or does it become harder to mine or have other factors affect it...

Similarly if a coin drops through the floor I assume it becomes unviable...

Dr Bolouswki

Mining just boils down to math

Capital cost: Your hardware (GFX, CPU, etc.)
Operational cost: Electricity largely. Internet if you want to include it. Cashout fee's when converting crypto.

Revenue: Fiat value of generated coins.

Profitability = Revenue - (Capex + Opex)

You can account for these in the manner easiest for you. Value at procurement (i.e. the value when you receive the coin) or value at sale. The former helps you differentiate between mined value and appreciated coin value. There is all sorts of opportunity costs that arise within value at sale etc - better an accountant or trader answers these. However, I prefer to look at Profitiablity = Revenue - Opex, as the Capex should show only about a 30% depreciation over 12 months - you still have it as an asset and can sell it.

But basically, yes, if the value increases its more profitable to mine, and with most algorithms it gets more difficult over time/the more people mining it - but difficulty is not explicitly tied to value at all.

Dr Bolouswki

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

If someone say had access to 35 computers is there any mining software that could be run on each and farm them all? - WIN7 i3 machines with a couple GB RAM each.

The machines in question have no one operating them and have plenty of redundant CPU power as they currently just run an instance of RDP and that is it

CPU only scripts aye.

unkel

^^ I wouldn't buy a 1050ti, they have a poor hash rate for the money. It's no wonder they're still available

Dades wrote: »

Just wondering... if you're mining a particular coin and it doubles in value - does it automatically become twice as lucrative to mine at that point? Or does it become harder to mine or have other factors affect it...

Good question. The higher the value of the coin, the more interesting it becomes mining it (this depends on the value of other minable coins too), so more people are going to mine it, the difficulty goes up and so the payout goes down. As it stands, the availability of decent graphic cards for reasonable money is poor, so the difficulty is not going up by much. All this can change of course!

Some people change what coin they mine all the time, based on the highest profitability. There are even websites that tell you what to mine, based on your hash rates and your electricity costs

wannabecraig

Dades wrote: »

I'd love to get into but this my time is full already with much less interesting stuff.

Just wondering... if you're mining a particular coin and it doubles in value - does it automatically become twice as lucrative to mine at that point? Or does it become harder to mine or have other factors affect it...

Similarly if a coin drops through the floor I assume it becomes unviable...

Yes and yes. You're mining the current value of the coin.

smacl

unkel wrote: »

^^ I wouldn't buy a 1050ti, they have a poor hash rate for the money. It's no wonder they're still available

Problem is, you're caught between a rock and a hard place there. The cards with better rates are either grossly overpriced or unavailable, and the available reasonably priced cards have worse performance. Given I use electricity to heat my office during the winter, I was actually thinking of building a rig out of cheap cards to replace one of the rads

Dades

Another question...

Is there a minimum timeframe you should stick to before switching coins? Or is that just using wrongly the analogy or actual mining?

For example, if you were like a new puppy day-trader and switched every few hours would you miss out on potential earnings by not sticking it out for a fixed period?

unkel

smacl wrote: »

I was actually thinking of building a rig out of cheap cards to replace one of the rads

I'm heating the 3 largest rooms in the house with rigs. And most of my hot water is heated by the sun

unkel

Dades, you can switch coin every minute if you wanted. You just have bat files ready with scripts to start mining different coins (in Windows). Stop one bat file running and just click on the next one to start mining another coin

The only thing is that you mine to a pool (mining on your own means it takes months or even years before you make some money and it is very risky) and the pool only pays when you have gathered up a certain amount of coin. In case of ETH this is usually minimum 0.05ETH. So if you mine 10 different coins and none has yet reached minimum payout, then you have got not a single payout of coin into any of your wallets

If you switch regularly, it's probably clever to switch straight after a pool payout

Prezatch

ED E wrote: »

Just stop now, itll be a terrific money sink.

2K is basic gaming territory, a single effective mining rig is more like six, going smaller just eats your profits. Also, electricity is stupid expensive here which eats you too.

This is absolute bull. I am actually shocked that someone with as many posts would make such an ill informed sweeping statement. For the record, I have built a rig - I'll post a comprehensive response tomorrow regarding how I did it, what it cost, revenue and operating costs. I found it quite straightforward but have built a pc before.