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Child Item

Let go after almost 8 years.

Mr. Rahm

Hoping someone can help me with this.

I was approached by my new manager yesterday and told I'm being let go as a restructure will mean I am no longer needed. I work in a large shed with one other person and I approached him for a warm jacket one day and he basically told me to go get my own despite numerous other employees being given one. We had a bit of a disagreement on this and I believe he's now getting rid of me to teach others a lesson as he's new. He says I'm always late and I am because I work thorough breaks on busy days and my previous boss told me if I worked through breaks or had to stay a little late some days to take the time off the following morning. Which was fine by me. But this guy does not like it. He has no idea of my working times as he's in his office on a site opposite to where I work. I only see him 2 or 3 times a week. I told him a few weeks previous that I had a interview for another job (job relating to and evening degree I'm currently doing) coming up and that I was hoping to leave at the end of January. He didn't like this either.

He told me I can see out my time until January 30th then I'm out of a job. I told him what he was doing was illegal and he said if you're threatening legal action against the company, "you can fcuk off now". I worked out my day as I wanted to say goodbye to a few colleagues. I was distraught and shocked.

I work 8-5 mon-thurs and 8-3 on Fridays. I get paid €375 (shocking wages after almost 8 years) every week but for some reason I got €360 for this week. I've no idea why. I also get a fill of diesel from my workplace every second week which is worth about €40 per week. Also, I was never given a contract of employment by this company and when I mentioned this to him yesterday he said "So what? I don't have one either".

I text him last night asking him to reconsider as I just want my job back. He never replied.

I'm scared and worried now as I've bills and college fees to pay. What next?

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Eire Go Brach

Manager is getting of lightly. You need to go in Monday and find out what the craic is? Are you being fired or made redundant? Can you go over his head?
If he says fired ask why and go straight to a solicitor and start building a case.

_Brian

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

I work very hard. Lots of days of working through breaks. Do you work for free?

The diesel is not an issue here. Half of employees get it on site while others have a diesel card. By your logic, they'd have to fire half their staff. A written agreement? Are you joking? They couldn't be bothered giving me a contract of employment. They wouldn't even give me payslips at the start, I had to ring the payroll person myself to arrange for them to be emailed to me every week.

I don't want to be fighting with anyone but when my safety and rights are threatened, I will fight back.

Honestly there’s no need to get your back up.

You’ve been badly treated without doubt, but you’ve also acted foolishly too.

Be careful listening to a lot of people saying go to court and go to a solicitor, it’s not just plain sailing to push a case through and less so where the employee has been less that perfect.

Someone mentioned going over his head, it’s always a gamble but being there 8 years and working so hard maybe you know someone further up who might help smooth things over with this new manager.

Don’t listen to people making a big deal out of getting no contract, if you don’t complain within six months your basically accepting the terms as being to your liking and as such have no case to make a complaint about no contract after that. It will weaken their case a bit, but it won’t be the gut wrenching blow to them that others make it out to be.

Mr. Rahm

_Brian wrote: »

Honestly there’s no need to get your back up.

You’ve been badly treated without doubt, but you’ve also acted foolishly too.

Be careful listening to a lot of people saying go to court and go to a solicitor, it’s not just plain sailing to push a case through and less so where the employee has been less that perfect.

Someone mentioned going over his head, it’s always a gamble but being there 8 years and working so hard maybe you know someone further up who might help smooth things over with this new manager.

Don’t listen to people making a big deal out of getting no contract, if you don’t complain within six months your basically accepting the terms as being to your liking and as such have no case to make a complaint about no contract after that. It will weaken their case a bit, but it won’t be the gut wrenching blow to them that others make it out to be.

Going to court is the last thing I want but I might have no other choice. I want my job back and to leave on good terms. I think this whole issue is about me going to college and trying to leave. Maybe I should have said nothing at all about it.

I agree on contacting someone higher up. My next step will be contacting the owner and taking it from there. Going in tomorrow might be a bad idea, I don't think I'll learn anything new. It'll just result in another meaningless confrontation.

Gerry T

One thing, people are not made redundant, positions are. When a company restructures there may be less positions so people are made redundant. Note any company a saw doing this would first ask for volunteers to take redundancy from a pool of workers in the redundant position. Failing that an interview process before the person is selected.
You need in writing what it is. Worth telling the boss what's happening, he might go mad when he hears

tedpan

I'd say signing up to boards did it. 2 weeks later, you go let go after 8 years..

NATLOR

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

Going to court is the last thing I want but I might have no other choice. I want my job back and to leave on good terms. I think this whole issue is about me going to college and trying to leave. Maybe I should have said nothing at all about it.

I agree on contacting someone higher up. My next step will be contacting the owner and taking it from there. Going in tomorrow might be a bad idea, I don't think I'll learn anything new. It'll just result in another meaningless confrontation.

You should absolutely go in tomorrow and continue to do so until you have something in writing.

con___manx1

Once you pass the unbroken 2 year mark of employment you dont need a contract. You are officially a full time employee.
Take them to the cleaners for redundancy of 8 years you have worked there or unfair dismissal.

CelticRambler

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

Going in tomorrow might be a bad idea, I don't think I'll learn anything new. It'll just result in another meaningless confrontation.

Playing devil's advocate here, if I was your manager and you didn't show up tomorrow, I'd be saying "he got in a row with me on Friday, and that's the last we saw of him".

You have to go in tomorrow, or you're making the same mistake that you've made several times over: taking things at face value and leaving yourself exposed for being unreliable and/or dishonest.

In this sort of situation, there's going to be no great outcome, so you should be figuring out how to make it the "least worst" for you. Instead of trying to keep a job with poor wages and unsafe conditions, take the advice above, start looking for another one that's a better fit with your college routine. If they're determined to get rid of you, offer to go quietly with wages in lieu of notice and a decent reference, or something like that.

kurtainsider

Mr Rahm
You MUST go in tomorrow. Otherwise you have given the manager what he wants on a plate. You'll just be a no show. Go in with your discreet recorder and let this manager put his thick head into the noose. There is a procedure an employer must follow to sack an employee and to do it any other way is a recipe for expensive legal difficulties for them.

Mr. Rahm

I was told to fcuk off and not to come back after I told him what he was doing was illegal. How is that not being sacked? It's going to be extremely intimidating and awkward if I arrive in as normal tomorrow. They have already given my job to another guy.

CeilingFly

tedpan wrote: »

I'd say signing up to boards did it. 2 weeks later, you go let go after 8 years..

Yep, something not adding up here.

kurtainsider

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

I was told to fcuk off and not to come back after I told him what he was doing was illegal. How is that not being sacked? It's going to be extremely intimidating and awkward if I arrive in as normal tomorrow. They have already given my job to another guy.

"extremely intimidating and awkward" that would be most helpful in your subsequent legal action if recorded and noted.

Make an early appointment to see a solicitor.

NATLOR

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

I was told to fcuk off and not to come back after I told him what he was doing was illegal. How is that not being sacked? It's going to be extremely intimidating and awkward if I arrive in as normal tomorrow. They have already given my job to another guy.

Without anything in writing or credible witnesses its your word against his. As mentioned already he could easily deny saying anything to you and that you just disappeared.
If you want some sort of positive result you have to go in tomorrow. Dont let this guy win so easily

Dia1988

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

Hoping someone can help me with this.

I was approached by my new manager yesterday and told I'm being let go as a restructure will mean I am no longer needed. I work in a large shed with one other person and I approached him for a warm jacket one day and he basically told me to go get my own despite numerous other employees being given one. We had a bit of a disagreement on this and I believe he's now getting rid of me to teach others a lesson as he's new. He says I'm always late and I am because I work thorough breaks on busy days and my previous boss told me if I worked through breaks or had to stay a little late some days to take the time off the following morning. Which was fine by me. But this guy does not like it. He has no idea of my working times as he's in his office on a site opposite to where I work. I only see him 2 or 3 times a week. I told him a few weeks previous that I had a interview for another job (job relating to and evening degree I'm currently doing) coming up and that I was hoping to leave at the end of January. He didn't like this either.

He told me I can see out my time until January 30th then I'm out of a job. I told him what he was doing was illegal and he said if you're threatening legal action against the company, "you can fcuk off now". I worked out my day as I wanted to say goodbye to a few colleagues. I was distraught and shocked.

I work 8-5 mon-thurs and 8-3 on Fridays. I get paid €375 (shocking wages after almost 8 years) every week but for some reason I got €360 for this week. I've no idea why. I also get a fill of diesel from my workplace every second week which is worth about €40 per week. Also, I was never given a contract of employment by this company and when I mentioned this to him yesterday he said "So what? I don't have one either".

I text him last night asking him to reconsider as I just want my job back. He never replied.

I'm scared and worried now as I've bills and college fees to pay. What next?

Make sure to ask your employer for 8% of all or your remaining holiday pay as you are entitled to.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

CelticRambler

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

I was told to fcuk off and not to come back after I told him what he was doing was illegal. How is that not being sacked?

Have you got it in writing? No, so that's not being sacked. That's someone having a rant.

Don't show up tomorrow - is that a sackable offence? Probably yes.

If you don't go in tomorrow after the advice you've been given here, you're an eejit and probably deserve to have your job given to someone who does show up in the morning.

twowheelsonly

FizzleSticks wrote: »

Yes go in, NO don't covertly record in the workplace this not lawful. Email him and hope you get a response, that will add to the evidence, the more in writing the better, trawl through anything on the network also and save anything that can be used to back up your case, covert recordings are not a good idea though.

Nothing unlawful about recording, covertly or not. It may not be admitted in a case but the fact that it exists is usually enough to shut someone up. Without a recording this manager is going to BS and lie through his teeth about the circumstances surrounding the dsmissal.

OP... 100% go to work tomorrow. 100% record anything that's said to you.
If you're told again to flock off or go home then make sure that t's 'leaked' back to the manager and owner that you have recorded the conversations - you don't have to reveal what's on them or how many recordings you have.Keep that to yourself.
Contact the owner afterwards to establish what your position is and what the manager is saying. The owner will know the manager and know what kind of underhandedness he's capable of - if he's claiming one thing and you're denying it but the owner has a hint that you've recorded it then the ball is back in your court. Don't admit to having a recording - the fear of it is enough. If the owner tells you that the manager is saying 'such and such' just comment "that's interesting..."
If you get no satisfaction from the owner then it's time for a solicitor /WRC.

Ether way, I can't see a way for you to go back there and subsequently leave on good terms unless that manager is gone. I wouldn't be going anywhere without my statuary rights and a shot across their bows though.

kurtainsider

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Fizzlesticks. Please don't give incorrect information. Recording is lawful. And an extremely good idea when you are up against a deceitful lying and dishonest person.

kurtainsider

CelticRambler wrote: »

If you don't go in tomorrow after the advice you've been given here, you're an eejit and probably deserve to have your job given to someone who does show up in the morning.

Harsh but makes the argument very clearly.

vikingdub

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

The owner is on site at least once a week so he is involved in the company but I'm not sure he'll take my word over a manager's. Or maybe the fact I'm there almost 8 years whereas the manager is there less than 18 months overall might help my case with him. The problem is I have no contact details for him.

Another thing I think might be illegal is some people there work 12 days in a row. Monday to Friday, half day Saturday and Sunday and then Monday to Friday again. These are mostly non-nationals who live in a house on site.

You need to go in on Monday, speak to the manager who told you that you were being "let go". As another poster suggested record the conversation.

Some facts, your employer is in breach of a raft of legislation

`1. No contract of employment, an employer is legally required to provide a contract of employment.

2. You mention working 12 days in a row, an employer is required by law to keep records of hours worked, breaks taken and annual leave taken. In the absence of a contract of employment I very much doubt that your employer would be able to produce these records.

3. As you have worked for 8 years you are legally entitled to 4 weeks notice, either to work paid in lieu.

4. If your employment is being terminated you are entitled to receive notice in writing, setting out the reasons. You will need this to claim unemployment benefit.

5. Being "let go" due to restructuring is constitutes a "redundancy situation", your employer is obliged to follow certain procedures, which include written notice and payment of statutory redundancy and notice periods.

After your conversation on Monday, if he persists in "letting you go", go straight to the Dept of Social Protection, http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/List-of-Social-Welfare-Local-and-Branch-Offices-by-County.aspx if he has refused to give you notice in writing let the Dept know.

If you cannot afford a solicitor, go to your nearest Citizens Information office, you will get help there. http://centres.citizensinformation.ie/
Most offices will be able to give you an appointment with a lawyer specialising in Employment Law. Alternatively go to your nearest FLAC office, https://www.flac.ie/

I have some expertise in this area and the above is the best advice I can give you. The diesel and warning for coming in late are of limited relevance. A warning months ago does not meet the conditions of a disciplinary process and certainly does not warrant dismissal in the manner you describe.

vikingdub

_Brian wrote: »

Honestly there’s a pair of ye in it.

Fighting with the boss, coming in late with no agreement with current boss, taking diesel with no written agreement.

Him throwing his weight about not knowing if he wants to sack you or make you redundant and I presume not knowing the implications of either.

I think there is little in way of getting things back on track here.

Might be hest to go in and suggest maybe ye got off to a bad start and see if an agreement can’t be gotten to.

People are saying go to court but honestly your not covered in glory here either with some of the behaviour mentioned in the opening post.

Your wages are atrocious and I’d be inclined to say walk away and look for a properly paid job, you’d make that money stack shelves in Aldi all week. However I suspect you’ll get no reference which could be a problem.

Best thing I can say is go back and see if ye can’t come to an agreement with you staying on, if he’s insisting your finished ask in what manner, being made redundant or sacked.

But if he can say you were stealing diesel it’s gross misconduct and so you can be terminated easily for this alone. Quarry near me let someone go for this very thing after 20 years service.

Your down to damage limitation on this, there is no easy fix and no way out without going back and talking to him and seeing exactly where you stand.

Not without process, there are numerous cases of employees being dismissed for theft which resulted in a judgement of unfair dismissal against the employer due to lack of fair process.

vikingdub

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

I was told to fcuk off and not to come back after I told him what he was doing was illegal. How is that not being sacked? It's going to be extremely intimidating and awkward if I arrive in as normal tomorrow. They have already given my job to another guy.

You need to get it in writing, that is an absolute.

Being told fcuk off is not notice, you will need something in writing to bring to Social Welfare, if he refuses again, then you go to Social Welfare and tell them about the refusal. The fact that you returned on Monday to clarify the situation will go in your favour.

To those saying do/do not go to Court, you need to get legal advice and you will not be going to Court, your case will go the Workplace Relations.

_Brian

vikingdub wrote: »

Not without process, there are numerous cases of employees being dismissed for theft which resulted in a judgement of unfair dismissal against the employer due to lack of fair process.

It’s easy to do properly though. Theft is gross misconduct, it’s one of the things you can move straight to dismissal on.

Send employee home on full pay “pending investigation”
Hold investigation and if the proof stacks up call employee back in , present evidence and give them a chance to counter the evidence.
Move to dismissal
Offer grounds for appeal, employer would be foolish to have gone this far if there was anything hanging out there to appeal it on.

Process is needed but if evidence is there it’s not a hard proces.
Often employee won’t come back in when called for outcome of investigation, issue dismissal via registered post, still offering appeals process.

_Brian

OP really should go in tomorrow, it’s just more problems otherwise as it’s into unexcused absence on top of everything else.
It won’t be easy, but it’s the right thing.

dubrov

OP, your employer is treating this in one of 2 ways.

1) Dismissal
Given you have already had a final warning, I suspect this is the way they will go.
Keep everything to e-mails/texts. Something you can produce in court.

2) Redundancy
They would have to be able to justify that your role no longer exists.
A mickey mouse restructuring won't be enough.
I'd text the guy that is doing your role asking him if he is covering your job.
It would be great for evidence later.
Even if it is a legitimate redundancy, you would be entitled to a payoff. 1,200 per year worked as a minimum if I recall correctly.

Probably best to contact a solicitor.
Be prepared to burn bridges with your employer.

Mr. Rahm

Ok. I’m going in as normal in the morning.

Thanks for all the help, really appreciate it.

Stheno

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

Ok. I’m going in as normal in the morning.

Thanks for all the help, really appreciate it.

Best of luck

antodeco

Beat of luck. Just remember you are in the greater position here. Don't react to anything

Avatar MIA

Mr. Rahm wrote: »

Ok. I’m going in as normal in the morning.

Thanks for all the help, really appreciate it.

Be calm. Ask for an official response. But, if feel threatened or get an abusive response walk away. Note it and look for legal advice.

BTW, go in early or at least on time

lightspeed

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Be calm. Ask for an official response. But, if feel threatened or get an abusive response walk away. Note it and look for legal advice.

BTW, go in early or at least on time

Best of luck, dont be afraid to email him also and cc it to your own personal email even if its to ask questions you already know the answer to. If there a written record such from an email trail, he not going to able to deny it or lie about saying something down the road.