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Child Item

The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

The Cush

Announced this morning - http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/0923/645685-rte-radio-1-moves-from-longwave-transmission/

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/static/2014/0821/638554-stay-tuned/
http://static.rasset.ie/documents/radio1/rte-radio-1-staytuned.pdf

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burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it would make sense but they're not going to fire up the old 567 transmitter when they upgraded the 252 transmitter to solid state with DRM capability. Never going to happen, they're not going to pay for any maintenance that maybe needed since it was taken off air and I don't think they'd re tune the LW transmitter because LW is pretty crowded anyway, what they could do is lease some MW transmitters in the U.K that might make more sense ?

The whole point is that RTE deem mw/lw outdated technology that has no place in 2018 where everything should be digital, regardless of whether it benefits the listener or not they don't care, it's all about cutting costs and keeping technology up to date to benefit them or if everything is digital then that's the way it should be in 2018.

AFAIK RTE/2RN Networks must maintain the Tullamore mast as a matter of public safety to ensure that it is structurally sound. I do think that the transmitter itself should be maintained to a condition that it can be put back on the air as a sort of failsafe/redundancy measure should anything happen to the nationwide FM network. The transmitter site could be fed from Astra as a means of keeping the audio distribution costs to a minimum (as done by BBC R5, BBC regional stations, TalkSport & Absolute for their MW transmitters). Yes, it's true that many radios sold now cannot receive MW, and those that do generally only include MW-compatibility as an afterthought more so than anything else, but there are a shedload of perfectly serviceable legacy receivers out there. You can pick up a half-decent 70's/80's transistor portable with plenty of life left in it on ebay for about 20 or 30 quid. Unfortunately I can't see RTE implementing this measure.

Personally I think that AM is slowly being killed off by a combination of 3 things - 1) The obsession with cost-per-listener, 2) Poor reception quality of most modern receivers & 3) Noise interference as a result of very lax EMC compliance regulations

[Deleted User]

Most modern Radios are built to receive local Am transmitters.

Noise from modern electrics isn't as much of an issue with strong signals. This is where DRM comes in. DRM wipes out the noise completely but needs a good signal for decoding.

I do wish modern Radio's allowed external antennas, for FM/AM, some do but most don't.

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

Most modern Radios are built to receive local Am transmitters.

I've heard that alright. Although I have driven from Limerick to Dublin and been able to pick up Wales, Scotland, 5 Live & TalkSport and only lost signal when driving under powerlines. At night it's a different story with the Spanish et al stations cutting across. That's in my current VW Polo. AM in the Fiesta before that was unlistenable once you turned on the ignition.

I can get the same stations on my 70's Philips radio, but only at the back of the house. TBH though since I got the FreeSat I only really use that radio on the Dublin-Holyhead ferry and on the train journeys.

Deleted User wrote: »

Noise from modern electrics isn't as much of an issue with strong signals. This is where DRM comes in. DRM wipes out the noise completely but needs a good signal for decoding.

I do wish modern Radio's allowed external antennas, for FM/AM, some do but most don't.

I had an old Roberts years ago which had an external input. That could pull in so many stations it was tricky to fully tune in to the one that you wanted. My father has (or used to have) a Sony PLL SW receiver which also had an external aerial that you could attach to it. Must ask him if he still has it. Can't remember the last time I listened to SW...

[Deleted User]

You can listen to SW any time you want on my SDR ! :-)

http://emeraldsdr.ddns.net:8073/

Car radios are different, their antennas are much larger than your average domestic radio, for the car the rear defogger element is used for AM.

A lot of SW radio's or Multiband radios have an external antenna jack mostly for FM and SW, if it does not say AM then it will use only the internal ferrite antenna and you can greatly improve Am reception with a loop such as the Tecsun AN-200, it can make a big difference.

I love scanning the SW bands and it's really amazing when you can pull in Radio New Zealand International , Radio is amazing.

burnsey1987

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can listen to SW any time you want on my SDR ! :-)

http://emeraldsdr.ddns.net:8073/

Car radios are different, their antennas are much larger than your average domestic radio, for the car the rear defogger element is used for AM.

A lot of SW radio's or Multiband radios have an external antenna jack mostly for FM and SW, if it does not say AM then it will use only the internal ferrite antenna and you can greatly improve Am reception with a loop such as the Tecsun AN-200, it can make a big difference.

I love scanning the SW bands and it's really amazing when you can pull in Radio New Zealand International , Radio is amazing.

Thanks for the link! Been having fun with it the past week. Discovered some very interesting content (plus some downright bizarre). Didn’t manage to find Laser Hot Hits, maybe they got raided again...

[Deleted User]

You'll usually find Laser in the 49 meter band or just a bit outside of the band.

Yeah it's a lot of fun, I'm impressed with the Bonito Loop Antenna good signal to noise and is good at lower frequencies in particular.

You can try 4025 Khz and 6205 Khz where laser usually transmit but could be on different frequencies at times.

I've a new antenna on the way a Bonito MegaActive MA305, can't wait to try it out but might not make it permanent on the SDR might make it my portable antenna and muck about antenna with my SDRPlay and other radios. Depends on it's performance.

Mickey Mike

I have to say MW/LW days in Ireland are coming to an end. It would be important to protect the FM Band for radio.

[Deleted User]

FM Band is fine but crowded this is where MW/LW can help out. You hear on RTE R 1 where they will announce different programming on LW 252, this is convenient and the transmitter is relatively new/modern and won't require a lot of maintenance. LW/MW also means a lot less infrastructure is needed.

I caught the tail end of a broadcast on Shortwave yesterday, I think it's the Man who owns WRMI and he said MW/SW will be around for decades and there's renewed interest in shortwave in the U.S.

SW can cover huge distances with one transmitter and you only need a cheap radio to pick it up nothing else, the networks own it and have full control over it and this is what they want.

RTE could buy a solid state transmitter for MW and use the 567 Frequency again for different programming.

I was listening to DAB in the car the other evening on the way to work to RTE Gold. It dropped out a few times but wasn't bad, but indoors at home forget it. DAB will need lots more transmitters than MW/LW.

RTE Gold could and should be on MW and it would get many more listeners but RTE think they have to cater more for the 20 something generation all the time.

I don't know anyone who listens to DAB.

Mickey Mike

In my opinion a new solid state 500 KW transmitter should be installed at Tullamore for Radio 1 only (like its always been) removing it was a mistake. RTE Gold should replace Lyric FM and have Lyric on digital only. I can assure you RTE Gold will be a massive success on FM.

[Deleted User]

I'd leave Lyric alone, I like the station sometimes far better than the usual dirt you hear on day time radio.

Yeah Gold would be great on a nationwide FM frequency but I don't think the licensing laws would allow the station in it's current form. No news every 30 mins, no pop music etc.

I don't think DAB , MW, LW are subject to the same restrictions ?

elperello

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd leave Lyric alone, I like the station sometimes far better than the usual dirt you hear on day time radio.

Yeah Gold would be great on a nationwide FM frequency but I don't think the licensing laws would allow the station in it's current form. No news every 30 mins, no pop music etc.

I don't think DAB , MW, LW are subject to the same restrictions ?

Agreed Lyric is a gem of a station.
Really good to chill out with on a drive.
I like to think of it as "the anti road rage station".

[Deleted User]

It's actually true, I am a lot more relaxed listening to Lyric in the car !

burnsey1987

I too would leave Lyric on FM as it is. I often tune into it in the car for the same reasons

[Deleted User]

R1 LW to be phased out and replaced with a DAB version for the UK.

https://www.rte.ie/strategy/pdf/RTE-Strategy-2018-2022.pdf

See page 41.

As for DAB here there doesn't seem to be any committment to expand beyond whats already available. FM to continue for the foreseable future.

[Deleted User]

Oh Yeah I hear something on Radio 1 this morning driving home about RTE's "Digital First" plan to attract the "youth".

Seems to me that RTE are on a very slippery slope.

Next they'll be shouting for FM switch off saying that it's time we're rid of this ancient technology , DAB will offer such better quality and services etc which is completely wrong.

I'd actually love to see RTE start up an international SW radio service. RTE International, nice ring to it. 300 Kw on the 49 meter band. There's no way they wouldn't hear that all over the U.K and thousands of miles beyond.

Anyway the youth are not interested in Radio and are just glued to their phones all day and all night and the last thing they think about or want is Radio which is sad in itself because they'll be less informed.

They're listening only to music and nothing else, radio offers a lot more than news and music this is why I love Shortwave so much is because you can hear different news from different parts of the world that will never see air time in this country.

I would say that RTE are going to loose more and more people to whom radio matters the most.

[Deleted User]

Basically this is Dee Forbes strikes again. RTE's first Female Director General is certainly trying to prove "Women can do it" and doesn't care what has to be done to get what she wants !

Plans to save money by axing staff meaning older DJ's and presenters for 20 somethings.

Hotblack Desiato

What she should be doing is axing the outdated and ridiculously expensive dinosaurs like Duffy and Finucane (you can throw Tubbs in there too)

She won't though.

[Deleted User]

As much as I detest the Joe Duffy Show, it does sometimes cover good topics and helps highlight certain issues that need highlighting but mostly it's a very negative show.

However it does have a lot of listeners and most of them are well beyond the age range Dee Forbes is trying to attract but she knows that it would be suicide if she axed Joe Duffy , Pat Kenny was a big loss to RTE and while he was useless on the Late Late he is good at what he does and that's more current affairs.

Ryan Tubridy is useless on the Late late and on Radio one, and he's full of the usual Anti Trump rhetoric that's getting on my wick big time. He comes across as having no real personality.

On the Late Late he's a poor interviewer and has a poor sense of humour and is not really a people person if you ask me. It would save RTE a lot to axe him alright and I don't think most people would care too much.

Now credit where credit is due, Tubridy was good on 2FM back in the 00's and this is where he belongs if you ask me.

Marian Finucane is far too over paid considering her contribution to RTE but that's ok because she's a Woman........ but in fairness her show has a lot of listeners.

I wouldn't know any of the Dj's on 2FM these days really but some of them are absolutely atrocious especially the moppets they have on in the morning but that's ok because they're probably 20 something and 20 somethings are supposed to act like complete brainless idiots that can hardly string a sentence together and talk utter sh1te ?

All the greats are gone from RTE,

Pat Kenny
Gareth O'Callaghan,
Gerry Ryan
Maxi
Ian Dempsey
Val Joyce ( who has simply the best radio voice ever )

Am I forgetting anyone ? all those who made RTE once a good entertainer.

I hope Dee Forbes realises that there's consequences for her actions and changing Our , yes OUR National broadcaster into something that no one wants. She may think she knows what we want but she's in for a very big surprise if she continues on her destructive path which is basically destroying Ireland's National Broadcaster , I'm not saying it's all her fault , RTE hasn't had a terrific past by any means but as bad as it was it's going to get a hell of a lot worse.

Hotblack Desiato

I don't think she should be judged for her actions but rather her inaction

The 'national broadcaster' was going down the tubes long before she took charge. I'm still (just about) under 50 and there is nothing on RTE TV or radio to interest me and its deeply conservative mindset alienates me totally.

Gerry Wicklow

Does anyone under 30 even listen to radio any more?

[Deleted User]

Yes of course but the problem with streaming is that those constantly streaming are less aware of world events and even those in their own country, people need to be informed and if people are constantly on the internet looking up crap and not looking at news or listening to news then there's going to be a lot of people who won't care about what goes on in the country or in the world.

Radio offers more than just news and one reason I listen to Shortwave is to become more aware of what happens outside of Ireland and the U.S and Donald Trump, all you hear in Ireland's Liberal media is Constant anti Trump remarks and it's a big turn off. I also like the different cultures and accents, some U.S religious stations also have good topics that are not religious related a lot of the radio stations broadcast mixed content.

It's actually amazing what you don't hear in Irish news.

stephend2000

Is there really a future in LW radio though?

[Deleted User]

stephend2000 wrote: »

Is there really a future in LW radio though?

There isn't because RTE have refused to change frequency to eliminate the super mega transmitter in Algeria, 1.5 Mw is astonishing power and wiped out RTE on LW , they transmit at a whopping 750 Kw at night so there really is no solution but to move frequency or the real solution would have been to keep 567 on MW or change to solid state.

252 was upgraded to DRM too which provides interference free transmissions but needs a good quality signal.

RTE may very well have reduced power of 252 either to convince people that LW isn't worth it but in reality you can't really compete with 1.5 Mw of power.

MW or SW , MW is crowded, especially at night but SW has great potential and can cover huge distances, radios are very cheap and there's plenty of old radios on ebay good quality and cheap.

I do know one thing is that we don't need DAB !

stephend2000

Deleted User wrote: »

stephend2000 wrote: »

Is there really a future in LW radio though?

There isn't because RTE have refused to change frequency to eliminate the super mega transmitter in Algeria, 1.5 Mw is astonishing power and wiped out RTE on LW , they transmit at a whopping 750 Kw at night so there really is no solution but to move frequency or the real solution would have been to keep 567 on MW or change to solid state.

252 was upgraded to DRM too which provides interference free transmissions but needs a good quality signal.

RTE may very well have reduced power of 252 either to convince people that LW isn't worth it but in reality you can't really compete with 1.5 Mw of power.

MW or SW , MW is crowded, especially at night but SW has great potential and can cover huge distances, radios are very cheap and there's plenty of old radios on ebay good quality and cheap.

I do know one thing is that we don't need DAB !

Well I think the recent strategy has rules out any major updates on DAB. They seem to prefer FM at this point which is great.

I never could understand why people don’t use the digital services available in the U.K. like Freesat and internet radio. I guess you can pin it on the older generation, but if they are able to protest the closure of LW surely they can go out and buy a cheap internet radio or even a DAB radio in the future.

elperello

stephend2000 wrote: »

Well I think the recent strategy has rules out any major updates on DAB. They seem to prefer FM at this point which is great.

I never could understand why people don’t use the digital services available in the U.K. like Freesat and internet radio. I guess you can pin it on the older generation, but if they are able to protest the closure of LW surely they can go out and buy a cheap internet radio or even a DAB radio in the future.

A lot of them are technophobes or don't even have internet connections. Some like listening on portable LW radios in the garden or at allotments.

Just a simple little pleasure trying to maintain some sort of contact with their home place. In many cases a home place that failed them.

It's a pity we have to fail them again in their twilight years. Hopefully some community groups will get support to help them.

dxhound2005

When I was growing up in an area with no electricity, listening to the very limited output available on the radio was not an exercise for the technophobe. The wet battery had to be taken to the local town every couple of weeks to be charged. The dry battery was the size of a brick. No signal could be heard unless an external aerial, replete with egg insulators, was run from the chimney to a nearby tree. So I don't buy the argument that there are many people from that era who couldn't master the much simpler kit around these days.

There was no RTE on long wave until 2004, so they were able to manage without it for decades. The medium wave signal was not even able to cover all of Ireland effectively, hence the local transmitters in Dublin and Cork. So listeners in GB would have to have been technically competent to get good reception in London for example.

burnsey1987

stephend2000 wrote: »

Well I think the recent strategy has rules out any major updates on DAB. They seem to prefer FM at this point which is great.

I never could understand why people don’t use the digital services available in the U.K. like Freesat and internet radio. I guess you can pin it on the older generation, but if they are able to protest the closure of LW surely they can go out and buy a cheap internet radio or even a DAB radio in the future.

Freesat may not give the same convenience as a handheld receiver but it's a workable compromise IMO.

Internet radio should not be touted as a replacement for traditional means of reception. I just think that it's totally unreasonable to expect people to sign up to an ISP or use up all their mobile data allowance just to tune into a radio station

[Deleted User]

stephend2000 wrote: »

Well I think the recent strategy has rules out any major updates on DAB. They seem to prefer FM at this point which is great.

I never could understand why people don’t use the digital services available in the U.K. like Freesat and internet radio. I guess you can pin it on the older generation, but if they are able to protest the closure of LW surely they can go out and buy a cheap internet radio or even a DAB radio in the future.

A lot of elderly people don't want to subscribe to internet services to listen to one of the most basic and oldest form of communication nor should anyone have to subscribe to the internet , install satellite dishes or cable tv to listen to Radio. It's not right that someone would have to have their TV on to listen to the radio which might not even be in the same room they want to listen to it.

A lot of people get good enjoyment from listening to the radio and as backward as some younger folk think that a physical radio might be in this day and age including certain people at RTE it's still a very popular form of communication.

And it's not just the elderly that listen to radio either.

It's like this, if Radio isn't broke then don't fix it and don't look for problems that don't exist and RTE created a problem by switching off MW, sure 252 was a newer transmitter but surely it's not too difficult to change it and the Antenna to 567 Khz. ?

[Deleted User]

burnsey1987 wrote: »

Freesat may not give the same convenience as a handheld receiver but it's a workable compromise IMO.

I don't think it's workable at all, it's unfair to expect someone to keep the TV on to listen to radio.

burnsey1987 wrote: »

Internet radio should not be touted as a replacement for traditional means of reception. I just think that it's totally unreasonable to expect people to sign up to an ISP or use up all their mobile data allowance just to tune into a radio station

Agree 100%.

Johnboy1951

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When I was growing up in an area with no electricity, listening to the very limited output available on the radio was not an exercise for the technophobe. The wet battery had to be taken to the local town every couple of weeks to be charged. The dry battery was the size of a brick. No signal could be heard unless an external aerial, replete with egg insulators, was run from the chimney to a nearby tree. So I don't buy the argument that there are many people from that era who couldn't master the much simpler kit around these days.

There was no RTE on long wave until 2004, so they were able to manage without it for decades. The medium wave signal was not even able to cover all of Ireland effectively, hence the local transmitters in Dublin and Cork. So listeners in GB would have to have been technically competent to get good reception in London for example.

+1

It seems to be conveniently forgotten that these 'old people' being referred to here are of the generation who produced the first wave of 'modern technology'.

One thing most people now regarded as old have learned is that things change, life moves on and new technology replaces old.
They lived through the old fixed vale radio moving to transistors and portable and old 78s to vinyl 33 1/3 and single 45s .... cassette tapes and digital tapes and CDs and DVDs and BluRays.

Yet they are not capable of moving from LW?

Some perspective is needed and in particular some acceptance should be shown for those who have lived through and enjoyed the most disruptive technology time period man has ever known.

Just tell people what they need to do if they want to continue to listen.

This is the generation that invented a lot of the devices we regard as necessary to our daily lives!