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Child Item

The Kerry Babies Case

irishguitarlad

What do you think of it? As the son of an Abbeydorney woman I take an interest in it as I kept on hearing about it growing up. I reckon the gardaí were covering up for someone when they blamed Joanna Hayes. Anyways, what's your opinion?

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up for anything

Wombatman wrote: »

I wonder what the thinking was behind having the baby in a field?

I suppose her family didn't know she was pregnant - they'd accepted the first child but she may have felt they would not be so quick to accept another. So when push came to shove the most private place she may have been able to find on a farm would have been a field where she could scream a little without being overheard, or perhaps she found herself suddenly in pushing mode without much warning.

Who knows what went on in her head after a very stressful pregnancy, actually very stressful doesn't even begin to cover it. I very much doubt she was thinking if I have the baby out here it'll die or I can kill it and hide/bury the body and no one will be any the wiser. Girls and women didn't tend to think out their predicament, most who had no way out kept putting off the thinking until they really had to or it was too late.

tayto lover

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Seems the long arm of the law will now be going around Cahersiveen
lookin for dna samples from everyone. If I lived there I’d tell them where to go!

So you don't want a baby killer found?

BENDYBINN

Seems the long arm of the law will now be going around Cahersiveen
lookin for dna samples from everyone. If I lived there I’d tell them where to go!

QueenRizla

There were theories that Baby John might have washed up from another county/country and that the stab wounds could have been caused by bird attack.
No idea the weight if any of that.
The confusion around the Hayes babies fate was Judge saying baby was beaten with a brush and strangled yet Harbison stating no evidence of such injuries on baby.

Wombatman

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I can't think of any situation, no matter how hard I try, where the only option is to stab a baby to death...

.... 28 times.

WHIP IT!

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

More than likely it was somebody that found themselves in an extremely confusing and difficult situation with not many options. The Kerry babies case and others that happened at that time show how vindictive the actions of official Ireland could be to those who found themselves in such a situation.

I can't think of any situation, no matter how hard I try, where the only option is to stab a baby to death...

Atoms for Peace

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I was 10 back in 1984, I remember it being all over the news at the time.

I don't know how anyone can go to sleep every night for the past 34 years knowing they stabbed a 3 day old baby to death.

I hope baby John's killer is brought to justice but it's hard to see it happening after all this time.

More than likely it was somebody that found themselves in an extremely confusing and difficult situation with not many options. The Kerry babies case and others that happened at that time show how vindictive the actions of official Ireland could be to those who found themselves in such a situation.

splinter65

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I was 10 back in 1984, I remember it being all over the news at the time.

I don't know how anyone can go to sleep every night for the past 34 years knowing they stabbed a 3 day old baby to death.

I hope baby John's killer is brought to justice but it's hard to see it happening after all this time.

That couple in Texas went to bed every night and slept for 30 years knowing their many children were dirty cold and hungry.
They’re not dirty cold or hungry themselves you’ll notice.
Not all parents are good, or even sane.

splinter65

RustyNut wrote: »

Your point being?

If a priest said that to me, called me a slut and my baby a bastard, I’d have decked him.
Now or in 1984.

RustyNut

splinter65 wrote: »

But Baptise she did....

Your point being?

Galwayguy35

I was 10 back in 1984, I remember it being all over the news at the time.

I don't know how anyone can go to sleep every night for the past 34 years knowing they stabbed a 3 day old baby to death.

I hope baby John's killer is brought to justice but it's hard to see it happening after all this time.

sunbeam

The mother of a friend of mine had a baby that died in the early 70s and the hospital was extremely reluctant to let her take him home to bury him. The child was a few months old and baptised. I've no idea if they they were simply thought it would be less traumatic for the family to have him buried in the angels plot or if some other twisted logic was involved.

The mother stood her ground, bought a grave and had a proper funeral for her son.

Electric Sheep

ellejay wrote: »

Who's to say she buried the baby?
Maybe the father buried the baby.
Maybe the baby's grandparents buried the baby.

The baby wasn't buried.

splinter65

....... wrote: »

Ive a friend in Dublin who gave birth in 1995 and when she called to the priests house to arrange the baptism he told he he didnt baptise bastards of sluts and she could call next door to see if the young priest would.

She went next door and the young priest agreed to do it alright but she says she wishes she had told yer man to **** off and never baptised her son at all.

But Baptise she did....

[Deleted User]

tayto lover wrote: »

Same here.
I suppose that like the priests of the time they did exactly as they were told.
To do otherwise would have caused them trouble.
I still remember Charlie Haughey on the Late Late Show telling the story of when the politicians were in a pub after hours and a garda came in and started to take names. Haughey asked the garda if he wanted a pint or a transfer and the entire audience nearly broke their holes laughing.

Just for correctness, it Was Brian Lenihan who told the story- but he was drinking with Haughey at the time

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/politicians-behaving-very-badly-30134658.html

WHIP IT!

tayto lover wrote: »

Same here.
I suppose that like the priests of the time they did exactly as they were told.
To do otherwise would have caused them trouble.
I still remember Charlie Haughey on the Late Late Show telling the story of when the politicians were in a pub after hours and a garda came in and started to take names. Haughey asked the garda if he wanted a pint or a transfer and the entire audience nearly broke their holes laughing.

You don't remember it all that well. Wasn't Haughey

tayto lover

MrJones1973 wrote: »

One of the most beautiful pictures i recently saw was of joanne hayes and her daughter from early 80s . What a brave woman and family to raise her given the times.
Im surprised it took 34 years to apologise.
The guards are still a law onto themselves. That being said any guard i have had dealings with have been pretty decent

Same here.
I suppose that like the priests of the time they did exactly as they were told.
To do otherwise would have caused them trouble.
I still remember Brian Lenihan on the Late Late Show telling the story of when the politicians were in a pub after hours and a garda came in and started to take names. Lenihan asked the garda if he wanted a pint or a transfer and the entire audience nearly broke their holes laughing.

MrJones1973

ellejay wrote: »

Who's to say she buried the baby?
Maybe the father buried the baby.
Maybe the baby's grandparents buried the baby.

I think given the times i or anybody with a shread of decency would not condemn her for that . Especially after the tribunal. My reply is geared to person you were replying to

MrJones1973

One of the most beautiful pictures i recently saw was of joanne hayes and her daughter from early 80s . What a brave woman and family to raise her given the times.
Im surprised it took 34 years to apologise.
The guards are still a law onto themselves. That being said any guard i have had dealings with have been pretty decent

Day Lewin

Snickers Man wrote: »

Joanne Lovett. In Granard. More true to say she was a girl. Early teens, as I remember.

Her father was present. Her sister committed suicide a year later. Draw your own conclusions.

RustyNut

splinter65 wrote: »

That summer was lovely and sunny, the music was great, good times.

One from that era. Seems appropriate.

Electric Sheep

Snickers Man wrote: »

Joanne Lovett. In Granard. More true to say she was a girl. Early teens, as I remember.

Anne Lovett.

Snickers Man

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Was there not a case of a woman who died giving birth, in a graveyard I think? I remember that. Different story I guess.

Joanne Lovett. In Granard. More true to say she was a girl. Early teens, as I remember.

Wombatman

Ms Hayes said she gave birth in a field and her baby died soon after.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/kerry-babies-compensation-issue-should-be-dealt-with-quickly-1.3358640

Ms Hayes had given birth to a baby boy on the family farm. The baby’s body, later determined to have been stillborn, was found in a field on the farm, where she said that, in a panic, she had left him.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kerry-babies-34-years-on-an-apology-for-joanne-465890.html

So was the baby stillborn or did it die soon after birth? Big difference you would think.

I wonder what the thinking was behind having the baby in a field?

Ms Hayes confirmed she hid the baby in some hay in a nearby field but later hid him in a plastic bag in a pool of water and it was there that gardaí found the baby’s remains on May 2nd, 1984 after her family found the baby’s remains and contacted their solicitor, Mr Mann, who in turn notified gardaí.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda%C3%AD-apologise-to-woman-at-centre-of-kerry-babies-case-1.3358040

The 25-year-old initially told gardaí she had miscarried after four months, but later said she had a baby boy, which she delivered while standing up in a field.

The baby appeared to be dead and she panicked and went home, and the following morning she returned to the spot and placed it in a drain, she told them.

Gardaí then extracted confessions from other members of the family that Ms Hayes had beaten and stabbed the baby to death, and that her siblings had disposed of the body at Slea Head, suggesting that the baby found on Caherciveen Beach on April 14, 1984, was hers.

Charges were preferred against Ms Hayes and family members, but in a sensational twist the day after their court appearance, the body of a second baby was found in a hole of water on the Hayes’ farm, bearing out Ms Hayes’ story.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gardai-to-begin-review-into-kerry-babies-case-822962.html

Annasopra

ellejay wrote: »

What is his name please

Not sure it matters really. Google it if you are that curious.

Purple Mountain

....... wrote: »

Ive a friend in Dublin who gave birth in 1995 and when she called to the priests house to arrange the baptism he told he he didnt baptise bastards of sluts and she could call next door to see if the young priest would.

She went next door and the young priest agreed to do it alright but she says she wishes she had told yer man to **** off and never baptised her son at all.

Oh my God, is that a direct quote from the priest?!

RustyNut

ellejay wrote: »

What is his name please

jeremiah locke

ellejay

skylight1987 wrote: »

this lady illegally buried her baby on her land .she wouldn't even give him the decency of a proper burial. didn't even register a name .yes she was wronged by the gardai in relation to the other baby but what she did to her own flesh and blood was cruel .no one bothers to mention this now though .the only people I feel sorry for are both babies .

Who's to say she buried the baby?
Maybe the father buried the baby.
Maybe the baby's grandparents buried the baby.

Ineedaname

tayto lover wrote: »

Not only that. A man I knew years ago committed suicide and the family were not allowed to bury him in a graveyard because it was consecrated ground. He had to be buried in a field behind it. Awful times then.

Three of my fathers siblings died at birth. They weren't baptised so they couldn't be buried in a graveyard. They're buried in a field on our neighbours land. They're not alone either.

.......

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