LeinsterDub wrote: » Why would it need a crystal ball ? I was waiting 12 minutes for a bus listed as due in 2 this morning that's max 5 minutes from its terminus. The bus was clearly not where it was meant to be and was running to "timetable". Perhaps it's as MOH say and it's technically fine but operated terribly
Stephen15 wrote: » There could have been bad traffic, a delay at the previous bus stop, a queue of people getting on the list goes on.
LeinsterDub wrote: » It's a suburban terminus , traffic isn't an issue . I've reported this particular bus to DB 5 or 6 times already it's a regular occurrence.
Stephen15 wrote: » Are there any schools nearby?
VG31 wrote: » I can't understand it when people come out with crazy statements like the RTPI being just based off the timetable. It's clearly not, otherwise it would be pointless and completely unreliable. Dublin's transport can learn a lot from other European cities but the real time is one area where Dublin is as good if not better than most.
LeinsterDub wrote: » Ghost buses are caused by running from timetable that's an established fact I thought?
devnull wrote: » Ghost buses are often caused by the fact that vehicles are turned around or go out of service before they reach the stop in question because of significant late running.
LeinsterDub wrote: » So that's a yes then? Honestly I'm not sure
LeinsterDub wrote: » Nope, 5 stops from the start of the route
MOH wrote: » In my experience, it *is* pointless and abysmally unreliable. Maybe I'm just unlucky, because a lot of people seem to think it's fine. But I pretty much ignore it at this stage. If I've a choice of two buses at a stop, bus A leaves me ten minutes closer than bus B, and bus B arrives first with bus A showing as being due in two minutes, I'll get on the bus that's in front of me. Because in my experience there's a chance that bus A either won't turn up at all, and it certainly won't be there in two minutes. Or cross city buses show up on RTPI as the scheduled bus, but the one that arrives is a XXC only going to the city centre. But at the end of the day the RTPI system can only display the information being passed to it from DB. It'll be interesting to see if it 'magically' proves more accurate for another operator.
Stephen15 wrote: » What route was it? Just because it was 5 stops from the terminus dosen't mean there wasn't traffic.
LeinsterDub wrote: » Will you stop making excuses I know my local area.
devnull wrote: » RTPI predictions are based on a combination of two factors together 1) Current Position 2) Historical traffic and operational data The historical data is used for that particular bus based on analysing the time that bus has taken between stops on hundreds of other days where that same bus has run - this is industry standard methodology as it takes into account traffic conditions appropriate for the time of day that the bus it's making a prediction for rather than just applying the same prediction over the whole day - we all know that a bus can cover some ground in 10 minutes at 1pm but could take 30 mins during rush hour and this system allows that to be taken into account. The problem is there can be bad traffic, an accident, a problem with a bus, a long delay at a previous bus stop and a long list of things that can delay the bus - no system can allow for that, especially in a congested capital city like Dublin because these things are unpredictable and you have no way of knowing that they will happen until they actually do. RTPI in every single city it is used in is a prediction and an estimate and people need to bear that in mind. What the RTPI system does do though is it looks at typical patterns of traffic, re-occuring delays that happen most of the time and work these predictable reoccuring patterns into it's RTPI indications in exactly the same way that Google gives it's estimates for driving times by taking these things into account to provide the most accurate possible estimates. Whilst no RTPI system is perfect it's vastly better than the situation was without it - I was waiting in a bus stop for up to 30 minutes previously with no idea at all when a bus would turn up - sure it's annoying when a bus takes a few minutes more than you expect it to arrive, but there is a lot less 'pot luck' about waiting at a bus stop now and I can't help thinking that people are so used to RTPI now they're forgetting how bad it was before it existed. DB are using industry leading equipment by the way - same as used in many major cities across Europe.
devnull wrote: » Look up your timetable here:https://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/XSLT_SELTT_REQUEST?itdLPxx_page=ttb See how long it allows for various times of day between those stops.
LeinsterDub wrote: » Good breakdown. Thanks for that. Where I feel the issue occurs based on absolutely no evidence expect for person experience is that a failure update the historic data coupled with a failure to highlight non running or city centre only routes and also a lack of feeding delays into the system such as x bus is 5 minutes behind schedule so it's departure from the terminus should be updated to reflect this. Leads to the system being very hit and miss for people.
Due to x DB would like to advise customers the RTI displayed maybe inaccurate.
MOH wrote: » In my experience, it *is* pointless and abysmally unreliable. Maybe I'm just unlucky, because a lot of people seem to think it's fine. But I pretty much ignore it at this stage. If I've a choice of two buses at a stop, bus A leaves me ten minutes closer than bus B, and bus B arrives first with bus A showing as being due in two minutes, I'll get on the bus that's in front of me. Because in my experience there's a chance that bus A either won't turn up at all, and it certainly won't be there in two minutes. Or cross city buses show up on RTPI as the scheduled bus, but the one that arrives is a XXC only going to the city centre.
devnull wrote: » But it's pretty obvious - RTPI is a predictive system - if someone expects it to be accurate all of the time then quite frankly they have unrealistic expectations since life is not predictable.
devnull wrote: » I forgot to add one point - when a bus arrives at a terminus late this does not always equal the next service that the bus operates being late - this is because of the fact that some departures will have layover time built in between completing one journey and starting the next. There are new rosters being worked on for a number of routes, some of which have already been implemented and others will be over the next few weeks, which allow buses longer time to complete their journey which provides more of a buffer for delays which should decrease the likeliness of services being turned around early or leaving a terminus late.
Stephen15 wrote: » So we should just go back to the days of showing up at a bus stop and guessing on the timetable when the bus comes or more accurately when the bus dosen't come. Real time info is a big improvement on DB services in the past. I remember standing at a bus stop before real time for over an hour in the rain now it will tell me at the bus stop how long to wait and if I should give up and go home or walk to a more frequent bus. I also find that real time information has improved since the early days of it. It may not be perfect but it's the best we have.
Stephen15 wrote: » So we should just go back to the days of showing up at a bus stop and guessing on the timetable when the bus comes or more accurately when the bus dosen't come.
Real time info is a big improvement on DB services in the past. I remember standing at a bus stop before real time for over an hour in the rain now it will tell me at the bus stop how long to wait and if I should give up and go home or walk to a more frequent bus. I also find that real time information has improved since the early days of it. It may not be perfect but it's the best we have.
MOH wrote: » Yes. Because zero information is more reliable than inaccurate information that's consistently peddled as being accurate No, it's not an improvement. It's as much a fiction as DBs timetables have always been. e.g. standing at a stop for 20 minnutes in the rain for a bus that is persistently due in two minutes and then vanishes off the system and is replaced by the next bus due in 40 minutes. I've reached the point where I'm sick to the teeth of being told there is no problem with RTPI, and everything is fine. It's massively broken. Apparently it works at times, on certain routes for certain people, and because they don't have a problem they're incapable of comprehending the utter unreliability of the system for others.
Stephen15 wrote: » The concept of RTPI is a good one it means you wait in the comfort of you own home instead of a cold shelter which is a good thing.
LeinsterDub wrote: » Which we all agree with if only DB would inform us of operational issues so we could stay in the comfort of our own homes when a bus for whatever reason isn't going to arrive.
nilescraneo wrote: » On twitter the response is always the stock "duty inspector has been informed" and nta never reply bar an auto generated email of acknowledgement. DB are seemingly unaccountable for such shoddy services and are allowed to increase fares year on year. Hopefully Go Ahead will be better, in fairness the bar has been set so low by Dublin Bus that it would be hard for them to be any worse.
