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Child Item

The Kerry Babies Case

irishguitarlad

What do you think of it? As the son of an Abbeydorney woman I take an interest in it as I kept on hearing about it growing up. I reckon the gardaí were covering up for someone when they blamed Joanna Hayes. Anyways, what's your opinion?

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[Deleted User]

That retired Garda who still believes she was the mother of the two babies despite all the evidence to the contrary what on earth is going on there he is completely delusional.

splinter65

mariaalice wrote: »

That retired Garda who still believes she was the mother of the two babies despite all the evidence to the contrary what on earth is going on there he is completely delusional.

Wants both babies exhumed and Scotland Yard brought in to investigate.
No regard or respect for Ms Hayes.
No respect or regard for the remains of either baby.
Just cannot tolerate the idea that he was wrong because as far as he’s concerned he’s never been wrong in his life.
It’s all about him.
Unbearable irishness from beginning to end.

SEPT 23 1989

mariaalice wrote: »

That retired Garda who still believes she was the mother of the two babies despite all the evidence to the contrary what on earth is going on there he is completely delusional.

In any other country that fcuking headcase would be now stripped of his pension and jailed over his behaviour

Laois_Man

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

In any other country that fcuking headcase would be now stripped of his pension and jailed over his behaviour

Why is it listed as low as number 26 on the news section of the RTE website?

Ipso

splinter65 wrote: »

Wants both babies exhumed and Scotland Yard brought in to investigate.
No regard or respect for Ms Hayes.
No respect or regard for the remains of either baby.
Just cannot tolerate the idea that he was wrong because as far as he’s concerned he’s never been wrong in his life.
It’s all about him.
Unbearable irishness from beginning to end.

I wonder if it's pure pig sh1t thickness or were they protecting one of our betters.

Odhinn

Ipso wrote: »

I wonder if it's pure pig sh1t thickness or were they protecting one of our betters.

It's not impossible, but it seems more thickery than anything else. Had somebody "important" been involved, they would have tried to do a better job of hanging her.

splinter65

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not impossible, but it seems more thickery than anything else. Had somebody "important" been involved, they would have tried to do a better job of hanging her.

The main objective in the investigation from the very start was that no “decent family” man who had been lured into an occasion of sin by the temptress J Hayes, would have his “good name” and that of his family, tarnished by being named in the scandal .
I can garauntee you 100% that neither of the fathers of these 2 babies will ever be revealed.
Make no mistake though, this was the Gardai acting on behalf of the vast majority of the local community.

[Deleted User]

splinter65 wrote: »

The main objective in the investigation from the very start was that no “decent family” man who had been lured into an occasion of sin by the temptress J Hayes, would have his “good name” and that of his family, tarnished by being named in the scandal .
I can garauntee you 100% that neither of the fathers of these 2 babies will ever be revealed.
Make no mistake though, this was the Gardai acting on behalf of the vast majority of the local community.

That is nonsensical the local community were very supportive of her and her family, remember it wasn't local Garda it was the 'murder squad' outsiders

[Deleted User]

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not impossible, but it seems more thickery than anything else. Had somebody "important" been involved, they would have tried to do a better job of hanging her.

Most likely he is arrogant combined with an always right personality its become ingrained in him that he and his colleges were correct and he cant let it go.

RustyNut

Two things stand out for me about this.

The first is the mealy mouth apology from the guards. It should have been delivered publicly by the commissioner (acting), not some local kerry lad.

The second is the timing. The guards have been asked since the 90's to do dna analysis in this case but low and behold it all becomes public the week that the dirt is due to be aired at the Charlton Tribunal. Hardly a coincidence, good deflection. As Judge Peter Smithwic found, the most important thing to the guards is to protect the reputation of the guards above all else.

Electric Sheep

splinter65 wrote: »

The main objective in the investigation from the very start was that no “decent family” man who had been lured into an occasion of sin by the temptress J Hayes, would have his “good name” and that of his family, tarnished by being named in the scandal .
I can garauntee you 100% that neither of the fathers of these 2 babies will ever be revealed.
Make no mistake though, this was the Gardai acting on behalf of the vast majority of the local community.

The father of Joanne's baby has always been known, he testified at the tribunal. It was never a mystery.

King of Kings

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Deleted User wrote: »

Joanne’s baby was stillborn.

the facts are that the family said the baby was stillborn. There is no record because the birth and burial was unorthodox.
No cause of death could be determined by the state pathologist when Joanne's baby was exhumed.

While I appreciate the gardai fcuked her and her family over and that was gravely wrong , it's separate to the fact they buried a baby that went to term on the sly. that is suspicious at least that something was amiss not to mention illegal

King of Kings

splinter65 wrote: »

The main objective in the investigation from the very start was that no “decent family” man who had been lured into an occasion of sin by the temptress J Hayes, would have his “good name” and that of his family, tarnished by being named in the scandal .
I can garauntee you 100% that neither of the fathers of these 2 babies will ever be revealed.
Make no mistake though, this was the Gardai acting on behalf of the vast majority of the local community.

You make a great point but it's complete bull**** cos we know the father of J Hayes' child was called Jeremiah Locke .
We've known that since the start.

Otherwise, hats off for a wonderful nonsensical rant

[Deleted User]

Huexotzingo wrote: »

Retired garda believes Joanne Hayes had twins, calls for exhumation

:rolleyes::mad:

Gerry O’ Carroll should shut up considering the farce of the previous investigation - how insensitive can you get, even in retirement. :rolleyes:

Odhinn

mariaalice wrote: »

Most likely he is arrogant combined with an always right personality its become ingrained in him that he and his colleges were correct and he cant let it go.

The Gardai cannot be wrong -> I am a Garda, therefore....

The word of a garda has unfortunately usually been given the same trust once given to the word of a priest. Nobody seems to get just how dangerous that is, despite it being fairly obvious. He's a symptom of a culture, really.

[Deleted User]

erica74 wrote: »

I think that people need to discuss this case without continuing to mention that lady by name. I think it's appalling that everytime the case is brought up, her name and picture is splashed across the front page of every red top. When she and her family confessed to the murder and later recanted, I have no clear idea why they did that and I'm not going to speculate but the gardai seem satisfied that she and her family had nothing to do with it so her name should be left out of the discussion.

I grew up in Abbeydorney myself and it's a tragic case and what this lady was put through and continues to go through is shocking and disgraceful.

It’s a good point. In addition to that, “The Kerry Babies”, while I know is a convenient and well known phrase after 30 years, it should also be dropped in favor of just “Baby John Case”- as that’s what it is now.

Summer wind

There was obviously a tremendous rage in whoever killed poor little baby John. How could anybody hate a little baby so much. I couldn't even imagine it. Such a very sad case.

Atoms for Peace

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Gerry O’ Carroll should shut up considering the farce of the previous investigation - how insensitive can you get, even in retirement. :rolleyes:

What a absolute bastard! He should be doing time, along with a lot more, for what he put that an innocent woman and her family through.

You really do have to question the motivations of why this story has been dredged up again despite evidence being there for the past twenty years.

Wombatman

Summer wind wrote: »

There was obviously a tremendous rage in whoever killed poor little baby John. How could anybody hate a little baby so much. I couldn't even imagine it. Such a very sad case.

“Baby John”, was found with 28 stab wounds. He was three days old when he was killed. His body was found two days later on White Strand in Co Kerry on April 14th, 1984.

Joanne Hayes gave birth late on the night of April 12th, 1984.

SEPT 23 1989

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

You really do have to question the motivations of why this story has been dredged up again despite evidence being there for the past twenty years.

Usually if they are willing to admit to things when there is far worse waiting on the wings

Official Ireland is a cesspit

Day Lewin

The main purpose of the investigation was to find out who committed the brutal murder of the baby found on a beach.
Keep yer eyes on the prize.
This would have been true in any country of the world.
Glib soundbite blamings of "Irishness" "the church" the state" etc are only distracting clichés.

The guards naturally looked for someone who had recently given birth with no child to show for it, and they found one: naturally they had to look into that: it would have been grossly negligent NOT to.

They should then have dropped that angle when it clearly wasn't her.

We don't actually know what direction the investigation took subsequently - if they looked in every county hospital in Ireland, every GP, every gossipy neighbour etc etc;

Unfortunately it looks as if having found a nearly-fit, they insisted on stopping there and cramming it on, trying to make it fit.
Did they ever really look elsewhere after that?

We can speculate about the first baby - the murdered one - I would guess incest, and a guilty parent: but it's only a guess.

Pawwed Rig

Summer wind wrote: »

There was obviously a tremendous rage in whoever killed poor little baby John. How could anybody hate a little baby so much. I couldn't even imagine it. Such a very sad case.

The baby's grave has been vandalised on numerous occasions over the years too.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/destruction-of-kerry-baby-s-grave-investigated-1.984301

Guy:Incognito

What was the deal with the child the family buried on their land? Was that common practice or What? It seems to get a passing mention on the news like it was an incidental thing.

dense

mariaalice wrote: »

Most likely he is arrogant combined with an always right personality its become ingrained in him that he and his colleges were correct and he cant let it go.

May be time to start checking the quality of the evidence in other cases this guy worked on.

SEPT 23 1989

Another family wronged by the state is top of the news abortion debate next no mention of this case

Aineoil

Two very tragic cases. While the apology to Joanna Hayes was way overdue by the gardaí, I think that she has to relive again what

happened 33 years ago. I think the woman has suffered enough.

One eyed Jack

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What was the deal with the child the family buried on their land? Was that common practice or What? It seems to get a passing mention on the news like it was an incidental thing.

I don't imagine it actually was common practice, but it was incidental in light of the fact that it was then known that Ms. Hayes was not the mother of the baby that had been found on the beach.

skylight1987

this lady illegally buried her baby on her land .she wouldn't even give him the decency of a proper burial. didn't even register a name .yes she was wronged by the gardai in relation to the other baby but what she did to her own flesh and blood was cruel .no one bothers to mention this now though .the only people I feel sorry for are both babies .

igCorcaigh

skylight1987 wrote: »

this lady illegally buried her baby on her land .she wouldn't even give him the decency of a proper burial. didn't even register a name .yes she was wronged by the gardai in relation to the other baby but what she did to her own flesh and blood was cruel .no one bothers to mention this now though .the only people I feel sorry for are both babies .

Why did she do that? Honest question. I've heard talk about this case in reference to 'darker times', was there something to do with the role of the RCC? I don't know much about the case at all. I do remember the coverage of the story back then, but I was a kid.

igCorcaigh

skylight1987 wrote: »

this lady illegally buried her baby on her land .she wouldn't even give him the decency of a proper burial. didn't even register a name .yes she was wronged by the gardai in relation to the other baby but what she did to her own flesh and blood was cruel .no one bothers to mention this now though .the only people I feel sorry for are both babies .

What does it matter though? It was her baby, she could bury the child anywhere she wanted. I just wonder why she did what she did.