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SMACKDOWN LIVE SUPERTHREAD

Lithium93_

Decided the superthread would be a better idea than the weekly threads, which really doesn't draw that many posts.... Maybe either Bounty Hunter, jaykhunter, Lord TSC could sticky..

Anyways, here's this week quick hits preview

AJ Styles to defend the WWE World Title against Dean Ambrose

SmackDown LIVE’s turbulent Women’s division is stronger than ever

What will be the fallout from Miz’s controversial Intercontinental Title victory?

When will Randy Orton finally square off against Bray Wyatt?

Will The Usos end the fairy tale for ‘Beauty and The Man Beast’?

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Comments

paulie21

Wonder why it got rushed? Seems like they had a skeleton roster. No Styles, Orton, Nakamura, Owens, Zayn or even Harper/Rowan

Loughc

I wonder will that mean they’ll have a rematch at the Rumble or take it off the Rumble PPV to save on time.

ShagNastii

The freakin' state of Mojo Rawley. So glad they didn't put the US title on him.

Jerichoholic

Yup. It's eh taking place alright. It's barely a match at this stage.

PTH2009

so the final of the US title tournament is Jinder vs Bobby Roode and will take on Next week's SD live instead of the Rumble ppv

edit oh wait it's actually going to take place tonight thanks to Daniel Bryan

Mr.Nice Guy

Don't see AJ appealing to the mainstream. I see him as similar to Michaels who never resonated beyond a certain level. AJ is also rumoured to be planning to retire at 42 and given he's 40 now it makes no sense to push him as the face of the company.

Jerichoholic

If they pushed AJ like Roman, he'd be the second coming, but they won't.

Mr.Nice Guy

There is no standout character these days on a par with Hogan or Austin. I hear a lot of criticism these days towards Reigns but don't hear any compelling argument on who should be pushed in his place. The names that inevitably get thrown out are names that will appeal largely to the die-hards but not to the mainstream public. Guys like Styles, Balor, Zayn etc.

Generally there's a certain mould that characterises the stars of wrestling's past: heavyweight size, American, unique look, ability to work the WWE style well, ability to carry themselves as stars outside of the product - talk shows or Saturday Night Live, tend to be believable as badass athletes, can cut a good promo.

It doesn't surprise me that they have decided out of all the guys in the business that Reigns best fits the bill. He ticks most of the above boxes and has youth on his side which a lot of the alternative names thrown out do not have. The one area he lacks is promos but that need not be the disaster some make out because plenty of guys got good in later years after underwhelming in their earlier career, i.e. Batista, AJ Styles. Most guys tend to come alive when they get a heel turn under their belt - see The Usos as a recent example. Reigns has never been allowed have a singles heel run which even Cena and Hogan got to have before their lengthy face runs.

I think management see Reigns as a guy who can hit a Batista level of fame as the main man which is not a bad or unrealistic target to have in the current climate of wrestling. Batista went on to be a big star outside the product and there's no reason why Reigns couldn't achieve similar either. To put it another way, if you're looking for a guy with mainstream appeal throughout the roster, Reigns is the one who would immediately stand out. This idea that Vince and Hunter pushing him is a bad thing is ridiculous because it's the logical move. Plenty of ex-WWE guys like Austin, Flair, Nash, Hall, Jericho etc. have praised him but this is dismissed by the Reigns critics as them being ass kissers. They're really not, they are just telling it like it is.

The die-hards who follow the business intimately will almost ALWAYS turn on the guy that the company gets behind to be the next star. Austin is probably the only exception to this. Fans at various points turned on the main babyfaces like Hogan, Rock, Michaels, Bret, Cena, Goldberg, Nash, etc. Generally this was rectified with a heel turn but the Cena example has taught them that booing the babyface need not be the end of the world.

Strowman is an interesting one to keep an eye on because right now the die-hards are giving him a free pass even though he fits the bill of a WWE dream. He has the size, weight, actually a much poorer worker than Reigns, but because fans know Reigns is the chosen one, Strowman hasn't been turned on yet - also his babyface run is quite fresh. But I have absolutely no doubt that if they give him the title and the big push and he then goes over guys like Adam Cole, Finn Balor, Styles, etc. then the same complaints will go his way. Why does Vince favour Strowman, etc. It's so predictable. The goal is to make money.

Neil3030

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Reigns will never be anything close to even Diesel I agree, but you can't say they haven't done everything possible to get him over and failed. Remember the Rock's surprise return to come out and endorse him after the Rumble? The Rock got booed for it because the fans saw right through it. John Cena crying on a talking Raw about how Roman was the greatest wrestler he's ever seen was pathetic. Then there was the weekly fake endorsements from Bryan, Batista etc. Everyone possible had to go out and lie about how special he was. Then there's the smoke and mirrors matches with every possible gimmick known to man put his matches, just to get him over.

HE RETIRED THE UNDERTAKER. Roman Reigns did.

Every show is about the BIG DOG. Wait till Mania season kicks in, you won't be able to move for the pointing at signs and the inevitable coronation.

Vince wants him to be the next Hogan obviously, but the fans don't.

OK I've largely given up on watching WWE programming, but I have watched a good few RAWs over the past year or so, and I get nowhere near the same impression that the show is all about Reigns; nothing near how they built shows around Austin back in the day. Commentators were constantly talking about him, "would he be there??" (EVERY week, lol, you'd think they'd cop on eventually that he was ALWAYS there). They'd show him arrive, hell they even showed him arrive at the airport once, and then at the arena. Constant shots of him backstage, and every show built towards something involving him in the final segment. Reigns might get a scripted promo, a match (somewhere in the card) and maybe a shot or two backstage. He is then otherwise lost in the noise of the three hour show. That he is booked to win more than anyone is evidence that he is their pick of the bunch for now, but I stand by my point that they don't want him to be (and are fairly safe knowing he won't ever be) a megastar.

They picked a guy with the right look, and the right size, and ultimately promoted him above his overall ability. He will remain loyal to them, but more importantly, if he does leave, they just take the next guy out of his holding pattern, and continue on. The only stars on the show are the McMahons and the brand.

ERG89 wrote: »

Austin going was always inevitable since he rushed back from the neck injury in 97 he was never going to hold out physically. Rock who left during that period wasn't but they haven't ever had anyone to make it mainstream like he has & stayed there.
If they don't want their talent to leave & do movies why did they create a movie company and make movies featuring using every big name wrestler they have.

Well you sort of answer your own question here - if you don't want someone to leave and do something, you have them do it in house!

They don't create big stars cause they can't; they have tried desperately to make Roman Reigns the face of the company for 3 or 4 years yet it still feels like it hasn't happened. Obviously they want acts that are popular & can sell merchandise like Cena has but they are nowhere near making another one so if you believe they do that intentionally you can.
Look at a case study.
Sami Zayn was the next Daniel Bryan, Bayley could be a big star for kids, Nakamura can be a big star, Robert Roode could get over big , look what Breezango did with nothing...all of them mishandled or ran into the ground by doing the same stuff over and over.
Woken Matt is well on the way to being blamed for failing. Bray Wyatt went from cool to being embarrassing
None of those were your next Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan but the company failed miserably on capitalising on their potential & lost money as a result. Still though that house show in India was worth 6 months of bad television & a Khali return.
Fu*k all character development beyond theme music in some cases, scripted promos that sound like they were written by someone who never spoke to a human being, pointless stipulations that people know don't matter, McMahon's involved on screen on the product which hasnt worked since Donald Trump was cheered by an audience, killed their PPV business by valuing each at a tenner & producing too much television that is mainly forgettable.

I could almost use each of your points to support my own - i.e., they want a certain number of people who are over, but they are deliberately preventing talent from getting too over. Maybe I haven't been clear - they want stars, but not to the same level of the past. You saw what happened when Austin and Rock left, and you see it in other contexts - for e.g., the position that the UFC are in with McGregor thinking he is too big for them.

I'll say it again, the only stars are the McMahons and the brand!

ERG89

Neil3030 wrote:

I'd imagine so, yeah. Although they obviously haven't communicated this to me personally! I reckon it's to do with them now being a publicly traded company - shareholders do not like risk and volatility in the stock price. The stock price lost a third of its value in June 2002 (when Austin left), and it took three and half years to recover. I don't think they ever want to put themselves in that position again, and even if they did, I doubt shareholders would let them.

Austin going was always inevitable since he rushed back from the neck injury in 97 he was never going to hold out physically. Rock who left during that period wasn't but they haven't ever had anyone to make it mainstream like he has & stayed there.
If they don't want their talent to leave & do movies why did they create a movie company and make movies featuring using every big name wrestler they have.
They don't create big stars cause they can't; they have tried desperately to make Roman Reigns the face of the company for 3 or 4 years yet it still feels like it hasn't happened. Obviously they want acts that are popular & can sell merchandise like Cena has but they are nowhere near making another one so if you believe they do that intentionally you can.
Look at a case study.
Sami Zayn was the next Daniel Bryan, Bayley could be a big star for kids, Nakamura can be a big star, Robert Roode could get over big , look what Breezango did with nothing...all of them mishandled or ran into the ground by doing the same stuff over and over.
Woken Matt is well on the way to being blamed for failing. Bray Wyatt went from cool to being embarrassing
None of those were your next Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan but the company failed miserably on capitalising on their potential & lost money as a result. Still though that house show in India was worth 6 months of bad television & a Khali return.
Fu*k all character development beyond theme music in some cases, scripted promos that sound like they were written by someone who never spoke to a human being, pointless stipulations that people know don't matter, McMahon's involved on screen on the product which hasnt worked since Donald Trump was cheered by an audience, killed their PPV business by valuing each at a tenner & producing too much television that is mainly forgettable.

Jerichoholic

Reigns will never be anything close to even Diesel I agree, but you can't say they haven't done everything possible to get him over and failed. Remember the Rock's surprise return to come out and endorse him after the Rumble? The Rock got booed for it because the fans saw right through it. John Cena crying on a talking Raw about how Roman was the greatest wrestler he's ever seen was pathetic. Then there was the weekly fake endorsements from Bryan, Batista etc. Everyone possible had to go out and lie about how special he was. Then there's the smoke and mirrors matches with every possible gimmick known to man put his matches, just to get him over.

HE RETIRED THE UNDERTAKER. Roman Reigns did.

Every show is about the BIG DOG. Wait till Mania season kicks in, you won't be able to move for the pointing at signs and the inevitable coronation.

Vince wants him to be the next Hogan obviously, but the fans don't.

Neil3030

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Roman Reigns? Vince would do anything to get him to be as big a star as Austin. So I don't think that makes any sense. You can only get over if they want you to get over.

Nope, I completely disagree with you. Reigns will never be as big as Austin, and WWE are well aware of that. They don't build their TV around him as they did Austin - think of the beer truck, the Zamboni, and all the other times McMahon made himself look like a complete clown to get Austin over as a megastar. All they do with Reigns is book him to win all the time. They keep him on script, and never let him show personality (if he even has any). Point is, if Reigns takes off, another star can be immediately slotted into his position. The wheels keep moving.

ERG89 wrote: »

Lol. Is that the excuse WWE use now for not creating one since Cena
:pac: :pac: :pac:

I'd imagine so, yeah. Although they obviously haven't communicated this to me personally! I reckon it's to do with them now being a publicly traded company - shareholders do not like risk and volatility in the stock price. The stock price lost a third of its value in June 2002 (when Austin left), and it took three and half years to recover. I don't think they ever want to put themselves in that position again, and even if they did, I doubt shareholders would let them.

CastorTroy

And after pinning Rusev, they have Daniel state how over Breezango are with the fans

ERG89

Neil3030 wrote:

there is actually logic in not making stars that get so big the promotion would take a serious dent if they leave.

Lol. Is that the excuse WWE use now for not creating one since Cena
:pac: :pac: :pac:

Jerichoholic

Neil3030 wrote: »

I don't know if you are being ironic here, but there is actually logic in not making stars that get so big the promotion would take a serious dent if they leave. Remember Austin taking his ball and going home? I don't think they'll ever forget that, or let it happen again.

Have you ever heard of Roman Reigns? Vince would do anything to get him to be as big a star as Austin. So I don't think that makes any sense. You can only get over if they want you to get over.

[Deleted User]

I actually forgot. Everyone

Happy Rusev Day

Agent Coulson

Rusev is everything they are trying to force Roman to be.

Neil3030

Jerichoholic wrote: »

The best thing is to never make any new stars, that's what's best for business.

I don't know if you are being ironic here, but there is actually logic in not making stars that get so big the promotion would take a serious dent if they leave. Remember Austin taking his ball and going home? I don't think they'll ever forget that, or let it happen again.

Lithium93_

It'd be an interesting question to ask both rosters, just how genuinely happy they are in the WWE?

Jerichoholic

The best thing is to never make any new stars, that's what's best for business.

Neil3030

He's foreign though, and as much as he is the whole package to more serious wrestling fans, WWE still need to provide content for Mr. and Mrs. Walmart (the largest part of their viewership). Thus, sadly, Rusev will be largely used for comedy.

daithi1989

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Just read that Rusev got pinned by Fandango. That'll teach him to get over.

State of that company.

Thought the same thing this morning when watching - it serves no purpose!

Jerichoholic

It's baffling, there are no excuses.

J. Marston

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Just read that Rusev got pinned by Fandango. That'll teach him to get over.

State of that company.

It's fúcking ridiculous. How do they not see what they got with Rusev? He's basically the perfect all rounder. Charismatic, funny, can be both heel and face, good in the ring, big power guy which Vince supposedly loves.

Dopes.

Jerichoholic

Just read that Rusev got pinned by Fandango. That'll teach him to get over.

State of that company.

sky88

PTH2009 wrote: »

Shane and Daniel seem like pals again but something will happen in tonight's handicap main event between Styles/Nakamura/Orton vs Ko/Zayn that will start the tension again

Daniel Bryan looks in great shape recently so maybe that in ring return is happening

the in ring return is happening just depends on what company its happening at this stage

PTH2009

Shane and Daniel seem like pals again but something will happen in tonight's handicap main event between Styles/Nakamura/Orton vs Ko/Zayn that will start the tension again

Daniel Bryan looks in great shape recently so maybe that in ring return is happening

PTH2009

preview for tonight's show

http://www.wwe.com/shows/smackdown/2018-01-09

Rjd2

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Randy needs his win back.

Can see where Vince is coming from. Orton has been delivering non stop 5 star classic Mania matches for the last few years and is a proven massive draw on the same scale as Hogan at least.

Jerichoholic

PTH2009 wrote: »

a certain Roman Reigns done that last year and almost won the thing. Remember at a rumble party I was at when Strowman cost him in the title match we were all thrilled and then number 30 in the rumble his music hits and we all react very angry

You weren't angry at all, you got worked so it's fine. You actually enjoyed it.