WhiteRoses wrote: » This just shows, and proves, for a fact, that you don't trust women.
WhiteRoses wrote: » Do you not think women "really think" about whether they "really want" an abortion, before the fact? Or do they just treat it as something similar to buying a pint of milk on the way home from work? Do you not believe, and trust, women to give due consideration to something that will undoubtedly effect the course of the rest of their lives, something that will be emotionally and physically draining? i don't believe they treat it like buying a pint of milk no nor have i ever claimed as such. WhiteRoses wrote: » So do you trust women or not? If you do, then you must believe they will "really think about it", whether they get one in Ireland or abroad. If not, then its clear you have an underlying motive in your lack of support for repealing the 8th. i already stated why i'm against the repeal of the 8th on the basis of what is being offered. i have stated that if abortion on demand wasn't going to be legislated for i would be in 100% support of repeal.
WhiteRoses wrote: » So do you trust women or not? If you do, then you must believe they will "really think about it", whether they get one in Ireland or abroad. If not, then its clear you have an underlying motive in your lack of support for repealing the 8th.
end of the road wrote: » by refusing to provide abortion in ireland, we make people really think about whether they actually want that abortion. if they really want it, they will go to england to have it.
NuMarvel wrote: » So killing someone is wrong (because that's how you view abortion) unless the woman can show they really want to do it, in which case, off with them, you won't do anything to stop them. And you call yourself pro life... I hope you never become a bodyguard, because your clients are guaranteed goners with that attitude!
end of the road wrote: » no . i'm against abortion on demand full stop, however i cannot stop someone from traveling abroad to procure one. i can only vote to hopefully stop it within this state. your post is a false representation/twisting of my point into what you wanted it to read.
NuMarvel wrote: » You keep saying you can't stop someone, but you said yourself you were against changing the constitution to make it easier to do that, so it's not a case of you can't, but that you don't want to. A simple way to be absolutely certain would be to ask you if you'd be in favour of stopping someone if it were legally possible, but we all know you'd twist and turn to get out of that question. You'd ignore it, or claim it's an irrelevant question, or claim it's a question meant to entrap you, or some other such nonsense. You'd do everything except answer the question unequivocally. It would be a waste of time to ask. So in the absence of your willingness to be direct, I'm going to form an opinion on what you say and don't say, and it is my opinion, based on your posts in this thread, that even if we could stop someone travelling for an abortion, you wouldn't do it anyway.
The Taoiseach has said there is concern among many politicians that the proposal to allow abortions in Ireland without restrictions up to 12 weeks may go one step too far for the majority of the public.
end of the road wrote: » it doesn't prove anything of the sort as it isn't true. my position is that by not providing it in the state, less abortions ultimately happen.
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kylith wrote: » Your continuing refusal to answer the question can only mean that WhiteRoses is right; you do not trust women.
end of the road wrote: » i have answered the question. whiteroses has been wrong on all the false allegations she has made against me on this thread.
end of the road wrote: i don't hate women, far from it. i just disagree with abortion being provided within the irish state bar extreme circumstances..... i'm not ashamed that i disagree with abortion on demand.
kylith wrote: » I'm sorry, I appear to have missed that. Could you link to the post where you say whether or not you trust women?
end of the road wrote: » there are too many in the thread but have a look back through the last couple of pages and you will find a couple.
WhiteRoses wrote: » Well can you just clarify then? Do you trust women? And if you do, do you not trust them to give due consideration as to whether to have an abortion or not? Yes or no answers will do.
dr.fuzzenstein wrote: » To a lot of people the current state of affairs is perfectly fine. Quietly export the problem to the UK and proclaim proudly "There is no abortion in Ireland!" If hypocrisy was an Olympic sport, Ireland would win gold, silver and bronze every time.
end of the road wrote: » i already said yes, i still believe abortion on demand must not be availible in ireland though. we have real issues to sort first IMO.
WhiteRoses wrote: » So you do trust women to give significant thought as to whether to have an abortion or not? Just double checking because you earlier said that you wanted to make them ‘really think’, which would imply you don’t trust them.
end of the road wrote: » it doesn't imply i don't trust them at all. try again. the current system is deterring some abortions and those who really want them are funding it themselves. IMO that is a small win for society. it would be a bigger win if there was no threat of abortion on demand being legislated for so that the 8th could be repealed with full support so that the other issues that the act does cause, which actually do need solving, could be dealt with once and for all.
RobertKK wrote: » But people voted for the 8th amendment in 1983, it is not like it was imposed on the country, it was the choice of the people, it doesn't matter if people use their choice to go to the UK, we are not obliged to have the same laws as other countries, even if people want to avail of them like abortion, to pay less tax, work opportunities, drug use etc.
end of the road wrote: » NuMarvel wrote: » So killing someone is wrong (because that's how you view abortion) unless the woman can show they really want to do it, in which case, off with them, you won't do anything to stop them. And you call yourself pro life... I hope you never become a bodyguard, because your clients are guaranteed goners with that attitude! no . i'm against abortion on demand full stop, however i cannot stop someone from traveling abroad to procure one. i can only vote to hopefully stop it within this state. your post is a false representation/twisting of my point into what you wanted it to read.
WhiteRoses wrote: » In 1983, contraception had only been legalised 3 years previously. Divorce and same sex marriage we’re still illegal. Society has progressed a massive amount since then, and has moved on. The 8th amendment has no place in modern Ireland.
