Rose Swift Marlin wrote: » What about unwilling fathers who have no choice at all but could be left financially obligated. I would love to see the male abortion debated as well, where men can opt out up to a stage.
kylith wrote: » More children born to unwilling parents who can't afford them is good for society?
end of the road wrote: » there is full trust of women in my posts, i trust them to make their own decisians. they just cannot kill the unborn within the state unless there is an extreme situation that requires it. i never made such a claim. however the wellfare state can be improved. my posts are factual and there are no contradictions. i trust women in my posts, i trust them to make their own decisians. they just cannot kill the unborn within the irish state and i believe that to be just. i cannot stop abortion from being availible in other countries or people traveling to them to procure one. there would be no point in campaigning to try and stop it as the burdin of proof to show that an abortion took place would be impossible to provide and it would be an unreasonable expectation to try and provide it. they will grow up and will contribute to society and will make this country better.
end of the road wrote: » nope wrong. my posts are factual and there are no contradictions. i trust women in my posts, i trust them to make their own decisians.
end of the road wrote: » they will grow up and will contribute to society and will make this country better.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » There is no trust. You simply do not trust women to make the right decisions for themselves.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Your idea that the welfare state provides sufficient protection to bring everyone completely out of poverty is simply laughable too.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Frankly all of your posts on this are just complete nonsensical and full of contradictions. You say you trust women but you have demonstrated you dont - you dont trust them to decide what is right for them. You say that abortion shouldnt be available but you are perfectly fine with it being available for women who travel You claim you dont support abortion abroad really but you are unwilling to really do anything about it. You refuse for example to campaign for reversing the 13th amendment.
end of the road wrote: » i'm not in favour of abortion outside the extreme circumstances that i mentioned. however i do believe that the current situation does stop some abortions from happening which is a good thing for society.
kylith wrote: » That's exactly my point. You're perfectly OK with women travelling to have abortions. You say that it's because there's nothing can be done, but you're not picketing airports. You're not demanding that the right to travel be repealed. If a woman has the means to go to the UK for an abortion then that's ok with you.
kylith wrote: » If anything you are in favour of more extreme abortions that any pro-choice person. By denying women abortions locally and telling them to travel what you're saying is 'I want you to have a more traumatic abortion with a fetus that is later term and more developed than it would have been if you could have gone to your GP when you first decided to terminate, since this way you have to arrange travel and save up to afford it'. The abortion you support is closer to 'killing babies' than the abortion I support, since it occurs closer to viability.
kylith wrote: » That's exactly my point. You're perfectly OK with women travelling to have abortions. You say that it's because there's nothing can be done, but you're not picketing airports. You're not demanding that the right to travel be repealed. If a woman has the means to go to the UK for an abortion then that's ok with you. If anything you are in favour of more extreme abortions that any pro-choice person. By denying women abortions locally and telling them to travel what you're saying is 'I want you to have a more traumatic abortion with a fetus that is later term and more developed than it would have been if you could have gone to your GP when you first decided to terminate, since this way you have to arrange travel and save up to afford it'. The abortion you support is closer to 'killing babies' than the abortion I support, since it occurs closer to viability.
end of the road wrote: » wrong, full trust of women in my posts, i trust them to make their own decisians. they just cannot kill the unborn within the state unless there is an extreme situation that requires it. just like i can't kill someone unless it is an absolute last resort. try again. that is why we have a wellfare system. abortion is not needed or required in this country for those cases. yes and i have said that where abortion is necessary to save the mother's life or to prevent disability or where the baby cannot be caried to term that it should be provided.
end of the road wrote: » no, extreme circumstances such as a threat of life or disability upon the mother, or the baby not being viable to be caried to term. if she wishes to have an abortion by choice for non-extreme circumstances then there is a facility to allow that to happen.
January wrote: » Nope. Because I didn't kill anything. If they ever ask me if I had an abortion I'll be honest with them but right now they're too young to explain it to (although the eldest two do know about the concept of abortion). You don't have a problem with abortion though do you eotr? If I was able to afford to go to England you'd have been fine with that.
captbarnacles wrote: » 1. You have no idea what a crisis pregnancy is. 2. No, they don't. You are imagining this.
kylith wrote: » And there we have it. "THE UNBORN'S RIGHT TO LIFE HAS TO BE PROTECTED (unless abortion happens somewhere I can't see it, so I can pretend it's not a thing)"
kylith wrote: » Unless she can afford airfare, right?
Da Boss wrote: » I don’t see your point, if a woman is willing to consent to sex she must be aware of risk of pregnancy and be willing to take risk. If a pregnancy occurs it would be unfortunate for the woman should she not plan it but it’s the risk she takes, it’s not a punishment and the man doesn’t need to recieivr a punishment, nor the woman. However I’d hope a man wouldn’t just walk away on the woman, if he does it gives us men a bad name I think
end of the road wrote: » however the unborn's right to life has to be protected. and if she really wants it she can get it in england.
end of the road wrote: » killing the unborn is never the right solution unless
end of the road wrote: » you are happy to explain to them that you killed it though. i am qualified to say that killing the unborn is wrong bar extreme circumstances. i'm well aware and always have been aware of what a crisis pregnancy is the reality is, a large element of the pro-choice/abortion movement try and make pregnancy out to be an inconvenience, so i'm only going on their logic.
end of the road wrote: » yet you are happy to explain to them that you killed it though.
January wrote: » At the time that wasn't an option for me either because I'm married. Now it wouldn't even be an option, telling 4 children that mammy is having a baby but someone else will take it away when it's born because we can't afford it, not an option for me.
NuMarvel wrote: » Considering you didn't even know what a crisis pregnancy was, I don't think you're qualified to be the arbiter of what procedures are or are not necessary for a woman experiencing a crisis pregnancy.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » I havent seen any trust of women in your posts. You do not trust women to make their own decisions.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » You know many women who make that decision are far from selfish or self centred at all. They are thinking of the extremely difficult lives of their existing family. They are thinking of the poverty they and their current family are in. They are thinking of how having another mouth to feed can exacerbate that poverty.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » It depends on the situation really. A - not all healthcare is necessary, B - some abortions are necessary to save the Mothers life (in a completely broad sense)
Fred Swanson wrote: » The pro lifers would tell you to abandon the child to the care of the state.
frag420 wrote: » I have a question for EOTR - Abortion Supporter. Do you have sex for fun or only just to procreate? Serious question...
end of the road wrote: » you could use the system that is there to help people in such a situation. you are paying into it after all.
end of the road wrote: » the law dictates a lot of things in relation to causing harm or killing. because it's necessary. killing the unborn bar extreme circumstances is unnecessary however.
Da Boss wrote: » If a neighbour is being an “inconvenience “ , you cannot just end his life to sort things to suit yourself, so why is it people think that should the unborn be an “inconvenience “ they can just end their life to suit themselves . Neither are acceptable in any circumstances!! People who seek abortion are selfish and self centered
end of the road wrote: » because abortion outside extreme circumstances is an unnecessary procedure.
end of the road wrote: » exactly. i 100 % agree with this.
end of the road wrote: » other parts of the maternity services would have to work with less though.
end of the road wrote: » some of the pro-choice/abortionists imply that it's an inconvenience, so i'm only going on the terms they use. the majority of those of us who are pro-apeal very much trust women, many are in fact women, however the unborn's right to life has to be protected. no, it can call itself what it likes. and if she really wants it she can get it in england.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » But you are dictating that women must stay pregnant against their wishes or needs.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Why should the taxpayer for any healthcare at all?
end of the road wrote: » of course not. sure, however i don't see why, as well as being expected to put up with it if it was legislated for, i should be expected to pay for it as well.
Da Boss wrote: » I’m not dictating anyone, I just hold the belief that nobody has the right to end the life of another, Be in the unborn or anyone.
January wrote: » Nope. The money saved from women not actually going full term and giving birth will pay for the abortion services. You've ignored my question by the way. I couldn't afford to go to England. I couldn't afford another child. What would your suggestion have been for me?
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