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The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

RobertKK

The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

50% voted to replace or amend
44% voted to repeal
Rest preferred to not state an opinion

Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
: Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
: Amend the provision in the constitution.

Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.

Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

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Army_of_One

Da Boss wrote: »

Having a child isn’t a “punishment “ it’s human nature, it’s humans way of reproduction . Nature has made it so that it’s the woman who carries the child, don’t ask me why I dunno. Women aren’t being punished when they have a child. And nobody has any right what so ever to end the life of another, including the unborn! Well ms white roses I ask me since you tell me I don’t have a clue about the 8th amendment maybe you can enlighten me and maybe that if what you say is true I’ll change my opinion on the 8th

shhh the adults are talking:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Edward M

Army_of_One wrote: »

shhh the adults are talking:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well that's a pretty childish response!

Martina1991

Da Boss wrote: »

Having a child isn’t a “punishment “ it’s human nature, it’s humans way of reproduction . Nature has made it so that it’s the woman who carries the child, don’t ask me why I dunno. Women aren’t being punished when they have a child. And nobody has any right what so ever to end the life of another, including the unborn! Well ms white roses I ask me since you tell me I don’t have a clue about the 8th amendment maybe you can enlighten me and maybe that if what you say is true I’ll change my opinion on the 8th

Tell that to the women/children who fall pregnant as a result of rape, the women who become hospitalised with sever morning sickness, the women who require miltiple transfusions from massive blood loss, the women who have scars etched across thier abdomen from C sections, the women who develop numbness, incontinence after childbirth, and countless other complications.

Women risk their lives every time they bear children. Pregnancy is punishing

SusieBlue

I’m not even going to bother replying to him, there is no cure for that level of ignorance and idiocy. He’s been beyond condescending and patronising and I’m not wasting my Sunday evening trying to educate a man who has no interest in listening to anything intelligent.
Let him off with his prehistoric attitudes and women hating nonsense. The 8th will be repealed sooner or later regardless of his stance. It doesn’t even make any sense.

Da Boss

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I’m not even going to bother replying to him, there is no cure for that level of ignorance and idiocy. He’s been beyond condescending and patronising and I’m not wasting my Sunday evening trying to educate a man who has no interest in listening to anything intelligent.
Let him off with his prehistoric attitudes and women hating nonsense. The 8th will be repealed sooner or later regardless of his stance. It doesn’t even make any sense.

Since you seemed to know so much I asked you in my last post to educate me as to why I should change my mind and be in favour of repealing the eighth. Should you give me strong enough reasons as to change my stance I will do so. So Gwan , educate me

NuMarvel

Edward M wrote: »

Well that's a pretty childish response!

Adult responses don't seem to work with the poster AoO is responding to.

January

Da Boss wrote: »

Since you seemed to know so much I asked you in my last post to educate me as to why I should change my mind and be in favour of repealing the eighth. Should you give me strong enough reasons as to change my stance I will do so. So Gwan , educate me

There's absolutely no point. You're so staunchly anti choice that nobody could change your mind no matter what they say. I've told you my story, you don't believe me bringing a child into a world of poverty and pushing my already born children into poverty was reason enough for me to have an abortion in my own country without feeling like a criminal. You don't believe the 8th affects the care of pregnant and birthing people.

You won't change your mind so there's no point.

frag420

frag420 wrote: »

If any of you pro lifers found out your 12yr old sister was pregnant and wanted an abortion...what would you do to stop her going abroad? Say your mother agreed with your sister that an abortion was best...what would you do to stop it happening?

Report them?

Lock them in their room for 9 months?

Other?

Hi Da Boss,

Noticed you engaging with other posts since I posted but not this one, care to do us all a courtesy and provide an answer?

Unless you’re not man enough to stop a 12 yr old having an abortion?

Which is it, man enough or weak and a fraud?

Da Boss

January wrote: »

There's absolutely no point. You're so staunchly anti choice that nobody could change your mind no matter what they say. I've told you my story, you don't believe me bringing a child into a world of poverty and pushing my already born children into poverty was reason enough for me to have an abortion in my own country without feeling like a criminal. You don't believe the 8th affects the care of pregnant and birthing people.

You won't change your mind so there's no point.

Well I’ll tell you my side of the story. As you know everyone only has one life on this earth therefore life is sacred. An abortion ends a life and the one chance that baby had of a life is gone. That baby will never have a life, this as a result of an abortion (which I personally consider a selfish oact). This is all personal to me as I was informed I would have me aborted should the law have allowed. Therefore the eight amendment saved my life, the life I currently enjoy that only for the eighth I wouldn’t never have seen. Surely you see where I’m coming from and why the eighth is so important to me

Da Boss

frag420 wrote: »

Hi Da Boss,

Noticed you engaging with other posts since I posted but not this one, care to do us all a courtesy and provide an answer?

Unless you’re not man enough to stop a 12 yr old having an abortion?

Which is it, man enough or weak and a fraud?

I would be most totally against it and explain exactly why. In my case I know my mother sister would be of the same opinion as me but say they weren’t I would be against any such thing and would make my stance more than clear to them

SusieBlue

Forced motherhood on a 12 year old child. I think that tells us all we need to know.

Da Boss

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Forced motherhood on a 12 year old child. I think that tells us all we need to know.

Beats being a murderer for the rest your life

frag420

Da Boss wrote: »

I would be most totally against it and explain exactly why. In my case I know my mother sister would be of the same opinion as me but say they weren’t I would be against any such thing and would make my stance more than clear to them

Yeah we get that, what i am asking you is what would you do to stop them traveling for an abortion? What would you do to save the potential babies life?

If all you are going to do is make your stance clear then again I shall call you out as weak and ball-less as you don't really give a crap about the potential life you claim to want to save!!

So I ask you again, what would you do to stop them travelling for an abortion?

pilly

Da Boss wrote:

Well Iâ€™ll tell you my side of the story. As you know everyone only has one life on this earth therefore life is sacred. An abortion ends a life and the one chance that baby had of a life is gone. That baby will never have a life, this as a result of an abortion (which I personally consider a selfish oact). This is all personal to me as I was informed I would have me aborted should the law have allowed. Therefore the eight amendment saved my life, the life I currently enjoy that only for the eighth I wouldnâ€™t never have seen. Surely you see where Iâ€™m coming from and why the eighth is so important to me

If that's true then your mother did a disgusting thing by telling you that and you will never have a rational view on this.

I'm not sure it's true to be honest though because that is a level of cruelty that I don't believe most women to be capable of.

Da Boss

frag420 wrote: »

Yeah we get that, what i am asking you is what would you do to stop them traveling for an abortion? What would you do to save the potential babies life?

If all you are going to do is make your stance clear then again I shall call you out as weak and ball-less as you don't really give a crap about the potential life you claim to want to save!!

So I ask you again, what would you do to stop them travelling for an abortion?

I would do all I could within reason. Obviously I couldn’t be forceful about it but would be extremely disappointed should they make the wrong discion.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

frag420

Da Boss wrote: »

I would do all I could within reason. Obviously I couldn’t be forceful about it but would be extremely disappointed should they make the wrong discion.

Within reason? Such as?

When you say wrong decision, in accordance with who, you or your 12 yr old pregnant sister?

volchitsa

Da Boss wrote: »

I would do all I could within reason. Obviously I couldn’t be forceful about it but would be extremely disappointed should they make the wrong discion.

If a 12 year old were going to drop a baby headfirst out of a second or third floor window, could you not be "forceful" about stopping them? I would. Without hesitation.

And I'd be a lot more than "extremely disappointed" if I didn't manage to stop them.

So what's the difference? I mean, I see one, but I'm not going round calling women who terminate pregnancies murderers. You're the one doing that.

Bannasidhe

Da Boss wrote: »

Well I’ll tell you my side of the story. As you know everyone only has one life on this earth therefore life is sacred. An abortion ends a life and the one chance that baby had of a life is gone. That baby will never have a life, this as a result of an abortion (which I personally consider a selfish oact). This is all personal to me as I was informed I would have me aborted should the law have allowed. Therefore the eight amendment saved my life, the life I currently enjoy that only for the eighth I wouldn’t never have seen. Surely you see where I’m coming from and why the eighth is so important to me

Da Boss wrote: »

I would be most totally against it and explain exactly why. In my case I know my mother sister would be of the same opinion as me but say they weren’t I would be against any such thing and would make my stance more than clear to them

But... these two statements contradict each other - if your mother sister (unsure if this is one person or two tbh) is of the same opinion as you than why would they have aborted you??

It's not going to be compulsory you know. Your mother would have had a choice, in fact she did have an 'Irish solution' choice - to travel or not to travel. Perhaps she couldn't afford it of perhaps she chose not to...

Do you know who didn't have a choice? Those women forced into the laundries and those children born into hell holes like Tuam and left to die.

Do you know who else didn't have a choice? Those women denied medical treatment because of the 8th - where was their right to life?

Keeping the 8th doesn't prevent abortions. It prevents women and girls being able to access safe abortions with full medical aftercare at a reasonable cost in their own country.

All the 8th does is force desperate women and girls into desperate measures - debt, buying pills on line, wirehangers.....

hatrickpatrick

This is a very, very, very pointless debate. The issue of whether a foetus counts as a human life is such a deeply held belief either way that attempting to change peoples' minds about it is totally pointless IMO. This referendum will come down to whether more people believe that it does count as a human life, or more people believe that it doesn't. I don't personally believe that there are enough undecideds or open-to-persuasion folks to make any tangible difference on the referendum result.

eviltwin

January wrote: »

There's absolutely no point. You're so staunchly anti choice that nobody could change your mind no matter what they say. I've told you my story, you don't believe me bringing a child into a world of poverty and pushing my already born children into poverty was reason enough for me to have an abortion in my own country without feeling like a criminal. You don't believe the 8th affects the care of pregnant and birthing people.

You won't change your mind so there's no point.

Don't forget he thinks you should be labelled a murderer and go to prison.

Da Boss

pilly wrote: »

If that's true then your mother did a disgusting thing by telling you that and you will never have a rational view on this.

I'm not sure it's true to be honest though because that is a level of cruelty that I don't believe most women to be capable of.

She could in my eyes at least do a more disgusting thing,-have an abortion

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Da Boss

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But... these two statements contradict each other - if your mother sister (unsure if this is one person or two tbh) is of the same opinion as you than why would they have aborted you??

It's not going to be compulsory you know. Your mother would have had a choice, in fact she did have an 'Irish solution' choice - to travel or not to travel. Perhaps she couldn't afford it of perhaps she chose not to...

Do you know who didn't have a choice? Those women forced into the laundries and those children born into hell holes like Tuam and left to die.

Do you know who else didn't have a choice? Those women denied medical treatment because of the 8th - where was their right to life?

Keeping the 8th doesn't prevent abortions. It prevents women and girls being able to access safe abortions with full medical aftercare at a reasonable cost in their own country.

All the 8th does is force desperate women and girls into desperate measures - debt, buying pills on line, wirehangers.....

Indeed however and having seen me alive my mother was shocked as to how she contemplated having an abortion, when she planned having one she’d never thought of the child she was killing, just of herself ( no different to many in this forum) however she is now staunchly anti abortion after seeing me and the shock that she unbeknownst to herself at the time almost denied me my life

[Deleted User]

Da Boss wrote: »

She could in my eyes at least do a more disgusting thing,-have an abortion

If your mother considered abortion as an (unobtainable) solution to an unplanned pregnancy, she must be pro choice?

Any chance she's using the "you would have been aborted" line as an anti choice argument? Wouldn't be the first time I've heard it (in regards to myself, and my mother too for that matter!)

applehunter

Not often commented on, but I think the reason that Hillary Clinton lost the American Presidential election was her stance on abortion.

Da Boss

Deleted User wrote: »

If your mother considered abortion as an (unobtainable) solution to an unplanned pregnancy, she must be pro choice?

Any chance she's using the "you would have been aborted" line as an anti choice argument? Wouldn't be the first time I've heard it (in regards to myself, and my mother too for that matter!)

I explained the circumstances there above in relation to me mother , read it there that will answer what u asked I think

[Deleted User]

Da Boss wrote: »

I explained the circumstances there above in relation to me mother , read it there that will answer what u asked I think

It does. We were writing at the same time, it appears.

Bannasidhe

Da Boss wrote: »

She could in my eyes at least do a more disgusting thing,-have an abortion

Tell me, since you think all life is sacred - do you think it's murder if a clinically brain dead person is no longer being fed via tube and effectively allowed starve to death?
Do you think we need a clause in the Constitution to protect their right to life?

Are you a pacifist?
Are you disgusted that American military personnel are allowed, in uniform, to avail of facilities in Ireland while on route to potentially take a life?

Where do you stand on self-defence? If someone was seriously likely to kill you and the only way to stop them was end their life - would you??

volchitsa

Da Boss wrote: »

Indeed however and having seen me alive my mother was shocked as to how she contemplated having an abortion, when she planned having one she’d never thought of the child she was killing, just of herself ( no different to many in this forum) however she is now staunchly anti abortion after seeing me and the shock that she unbeknownst to herself at the time almost denied me my life

So does your mother think it would have been fair enough to send her to a psychiatric ward, as happened to a pregnant child recently?

After all, she gave up fairly easily apparently - but what if the pregnancy had been far more distressing to her and she had remained determined not to give birth? Or like Ms Y, who was threatened with incarceration and with force feeding iirc.

I don't believe any woman in her right mind could condone that sort of treatment to a young woman or a child.