Patww79 wrote: » This post has been deleted.
FrancieBrady wrote: » What are you if you 'oppose' the constitution of your country?
markodaly wrote: » I oppose the 8th amendment, does that make me unpatriotic?
It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Yes, if you do nothing to change the constitution. The particular clause is an aspiration of the state. If you don't agree with it and oppose it, you are against the state in respect of that clause.
markodaly wrote: » So you view the constitution as something that is set in stone and anyone who wants to change it is unpatriotic. Fine so, I think that is a stupid view to hold but hey people are free to hold stupid views.
Jawgap wrote: » Really? Us? Too immature? Maybe......but at least we would never be mad enough to pull a stunt like Brexit, not even as a joke
FrancieBrady wrote: » No. I am saying that if you oppose it, then work to change it. I am suprised that with so many (it is claimed) opposed to a UI in the south that there has never been a hint that anyone wants to change that pretty substantial clause. For instance, why was there not a word about dropping it altogether at the time of the GFA? I'll let you work out yourself why.
markodaly wrote: » Because most people don't care about a UI and go about their daily lives free from this nonsense. And again, it cannot be forced on us as we, the people have to vote on it. The constitution gives us that consent. Again, patriotism doesn't come into it. You may as well argue that not liking black pudding makes you unpatriotic.
FrancieBrady wrote: » The old 'most people' assertion again. But not a peep out of most people when the chance was there to change the constitution and every political party in the state supporting the idea of a UI. You aren't making a pile of sense here.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » because it has zero practical effect. why waste effort opposing something that is merely aspirational?
ohnonotgmail wrote: » they may claim to support it but they aren't actually doing much about it. i think the phrase is "lip service".
FrancieBrady wrote: » Another question. Why have Unionists and all these people who oppose it in the south never advocated for a poll? Surely it would end the speculation and what have they to lose if they so fervently believe it is 'aspirational'? Interested on how that is spun in anti UI/Unionist circles.
FrancieBrady wrote: » So, your party doesn't mention it for years and then when a UI comes the closest it has ever come you suddenly decide to start paying 'lip service' to the idea? Again, that doesn't make much sense. A politician starts making noise when they see support and votes usually.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » you're the one who wants to change the status quo. Why should the other side do the work for you?
ohnonotgmail wrote: » we are no closer to a UI. well except in the fevered dreams of sinn fein.
FrancieBrady wrote: » That the best you can do? As I said, it would be interesting to see the 'spin'. Very disappointing actually ono! Imagine the political capital for Unionists if they won a border poll, but they seem curiously afraid to go there, strange, for people who so fervently believe that a UI is never going to happen.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » typical of you. nothing smart to say so you resort to trying, and failing, to mock.
markodaly wrote: » Because in 1998 the issue was about peace in the North. No idea how old you are but the madness of those 30 years of troubles puts paid to any sense of stupid patriotism. United Ireland or not. Nothing wrong to aspire to it but again it will be up to the people as they have to consent and I would say most people would want to see the details of the plan. Any stupid romantic ideas about unification was put to bed when we see what Brexit negotiations actually looks like in reality.
wotzgoingon wrote: » Anyway I'm out of this thread. I find boards.ie great for everything but I rarely post in AH or politics. As the amount of west brits here really surprises me. I wouldn't be surprised if half them are prods pretending to be Irish for what ever reason. I'm not one to judge how somebody gets their kicks but afaik no Irish person signs up to some britian first webpage and pretends to be british and posts anti british stuff.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Of course they will want to see a plan, and there will be one. The notion that there are people who will make this move for romantic notions alone is an old and tired one popularised mostly by those who oppose a UI for their own selfish reasons. And it may yet be as a result of Brexit or a Scottish departure from the UK. Northern Ireland will not survive a hard Brexit for instance.
markodaly wrote: » You are sounding like Nigel Farage. Brexit is a wake up call with people with romantic notions.
FrancieBrady wrote: » And we continue to popularise the notion.
markodaly wrote: » Yes, Ireland needs more populist nonsense in form of snake oiled UKIP like crap about a United Ireland. Its started already, you don't want a UI, you are essentially unpatriotic.
markodaly wrote: » You cannot be Irish and a Protestant? Interesting bigoted mindset there.
wotzgoingon wrote: » I'm 100% bigoted. People think the IRA were terrorists, well if I was involved in the leadership of the IRA back in their hay day people would have 100% a right to call them terrorists as I would have obliterated shankill road with bombs and as I said earlier I would have ordered someone to drive up and down shankill road with a fully automatic heavy machine gun and shoot at people walking down the street and go into known loyalists estates and do the same. IRA were never terrorists they were volunteers and freedom fighters.
