nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Does opposing a United Ireland automatically make you unpatriotic?

Foxhound38

Just as the title says really.

I notice that online at least (and I know that online isn't exactly a good representation of people in general) even mild skepticism over the benefits of a United Ireland invites immediate accusations of "west-brit" etc.

Is general support for a United Ireland a red line for being a good citizen or republican?

I happen to believe strongly in citizenship and a republican form of government. I also think that a United Ireland would be an unmitigated disaster for people living on both sides of the border from a political, economic, health and security point of view. I do think that a path for unification should be open pending a vote firstly in the north and then in the republic, but as things stand I would vote against it.

What do you reckon?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

end of the road

Jawgap wrote: »

So under a post about Kingsmill you write that the Provos were freedom fighters?

What about the murdering of Gardai and unarmed Irish soldiers? What were those who murdered fellow Irishmen?

garda and irish soldiers would come under killings by terrorists just like civilians. RUC BA and loyalist extremists would come under killings by freedom fighters.\

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Indeed, especially if it's the type of UI that this patriot, McElduff, advocates.....

https://twitter.com/adstack68/status/949680982462025728

What is the joke about Kingsmill there? Can somebody explain it to me?

Kingsmill on my head? Under Kingsmill?

I have criticised this guy already for being insensitive but to say he was 'joking' about the massacre seems a bit ott.

Repsulive

Since Ireland is now a multi cultural society, what about the new Irish? I doubt very much they care about the North, they certainly won't fight for it. Are they automatically unpatriotic?

Fr_Dougal

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is a 'terrorist'?

noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

Repsulive

Also lets be clear, the Provos were murdering scumbags, little better than Islamic terrorists.

FrancieBrady

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

.

So you are ok if nationalists refer to the BA as terrorists?

It is a very redundant word in a society that has seen 30/40 years of conflict/war.
Especially as it is now becoming clearer that the government and it's forces where players in that conflict/war.

wotzgoingon

Well if there was a united Ireland and then a small cell of Unionist started committing crimes and the IRA started back up. All the gardaí have to do is use torture on those unionists they arrest to get information and when they arrest nationalists shake their hand and say on the news IRA man arrested and make it look like they are doing the right thing.

Ring a bell with anyone....

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Question was 'why'?

My point is: it's a bit rich to decry people for not being patriotic and then to steamroll over someone else's patriotism simply because they're in a minority.

Whose is going to steamroll anybody? It will be a democratic vote based on a hard fought internationally binding agreement which some people haven't seemed to have read before signing up to it.

I'm not saying it won't. I'm not even saying they didn't agree to it. I'm saying, is it still a consistent evaluation of patriotism? And yes, they would be forced to join a united Ireland against their will. Democracy doesn't chance that.

FrancieBrady

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm not saying it won't. I'm not even saying they didn't agree to it. I'm saying, is it still a consistent evaluation of patriotism? And yes, they would be forced to join a united Ireland against their will. Democracy doesn't chance that.

The patriotic thing for them to do is to work at making sure their identity (that nobody wants to take away) is respected and catered for. Minorities have nothing to fear in proper democracies.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is the joke about Kingsmill there? Can somebody explain it to me?

Kingsmill on my head? Under Kingsmill?

I have criticised this guy already for being insensitive but to say he was 'joking' about the massacre seems a bit ott.

the fact he did it on the anniversary of the murder of innocents by the IRA is just coincidence? and this is somebody that sinn fein think is fit to represent them?

end of the road

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the fact he did it on the anniversary of the murder of innocents by the IRA is just coincidence? and this is somebody that sinn fein think is fit to represent them?

he is fit to represent them. his joke was absolutely in poor taste but he apologized and has apparently agreed to meet with the families, so that should be the end of the matter.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the fact he did it on the anniversary of the murder of innocents by the IRA is just coincidence? and this is somebody that sinn fein think is fit to represent them?

Yeh, it's insensitive in the same way as Bertie making an insensitive comment about suicide.

If he was 'joking about the massacre' what was the joke exactly?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

wotzgoingon

I couldn't give two ****s what he done the same way I couldn't give two ****s if somebody drove up and down shankill road on a busy saturday afternoon with a fully automatic heavy machine give and let rip.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh, it's insensitive in the same way as Bertie making an insensitive comment about suicide.

If he was 'joking about the massacre' what was the joke exactly?

please dont play the naive fool.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you are ok if nationalists refer to the BA as terrorists?

It is a very redundant word in a society that has seen 30/40 years of conflict/war.
Especially as it is now becoming clearer that the government and it's forces where players in that conflict/war.

Nationalists welcomed the deployment of the British Army in the north. In fact they lobbied for it.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

please dont play the naive fool.

I am not being naive. He has been accused if making a joke about the massacre, what is the joke?
Surely if you are going to take offence you should know what it is you are taking offence at?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Nationalists welcomed the deployment of the British Army in the north. In fact they lobbied for it.

And?

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am not being naive. He has been accused if making a joke about the massacre, what is the joke?
Surely if you are going to take offence you should know what it is you are taking offence at?

he was mocking the victims. if you cant see that then nobody can help you.

wotzgoingon

markodaly wrote: »

Nationalists welcomed the deployment of the British Army in the north. In fact they lobbied for it.

They didn't know the guns would only be pointing one way. Towards them.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he was mocking the victims. if you cant see that then nobody can help you.

He said he was making a joke about bread (he has a track record for this kind of 'humour'. Not my cup of tea mind) and he should have known that it was the anniversary.

How was he 'mocking victims' specifically? Just by being photographed with a loaf of bread? I eat that bread almost every second day.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And?

So many would not view them as Terrorists.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He said he was making a joke about bread (he has a track record for this kind of 'humour'. Not my cup of tea mind) and he should have known that it was the anniversary.

How was he 'mocking victims' specifically? Just by being photographed with a loaf of bread? I eat that bread almost every second day.

I'm glad you put 'humour' in quotes. Sinn Fein representatives not being noted for their wit or intelligence.

Asi said if you cant see it then there is nothing that i, or anybody else, can say that will help you. you are too blinded by your political leaning.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm glad you put 'humour' in quotes. Sinn Fein representatives not being noted for their wit or intelligence.

Asi said if you cant see it then there is nothing that i, or anybody else, can say that will help you. you are too blinded by your political leaning.

I have already said if he intended this as a taunt to victims then he should go.

It's just that I cannot in fairness see how it was a taunt at victims and not just a particularly bad joke about bread at the wrong time. i.e. insensitive,

Does he have a track record for taunts like this. Don't know a lot about him.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

So many would not view them as Terrorists.

Again I have to say - and?
Many in the nationalist community viewed them as terrorists as do a lot of people around the world who fell foul of them. And they have wreaked a lot of death and suffering around the world, yeh?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again I have to say - and?
Many in the nationalist community viewed them as terrorists as do a lot of people around the world who fell foul of them. And they have wreaked a lot of death and suffering around the world, yeh?

Oh here we go again. Maybe save it for this years poppy thread?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Oh here we go again. Maybe save it for this years poppy thread?

You ok there?

Sorry for not giving them the due deference there.

Charles Babbage

Opposing an independent Ireland does make you unpatriotic. Wanting the part of Ireland you happen to live in to be independent while not wanting it for other people makes you a selfish mé féiner.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You ok there?

Sorry for not giving them the due deference there.

No, its just tiring and boring having to argue the same nonsense year in year out.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.