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Meath GAA discussion thread

Hammer Archer

Well Galway has a thread, Mayo has one, even Cavan has one so why not us?

Two one point defeats in a row means we're back into relegation trouble especially if we lose to Derry next week. Having said that, beat Derry next week and promotion is still a (remote) possibility. Joe Sheridan leaving for the States certainly isn't going to help.
Thought the performance yesterday was easily the worst of the league. Our away form is killing us still.

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Hammer Archer

May have snuck up on people given that it's not even New Years, but the hurlers' first game of 2018 is tomorrow at 2pm in Trim against Antrim in the Walsh Cup.

mattser

Hammer Archer wrote: »

May have snuck up on people given that it's not even New Years, but the hurlers' first game of 2018 is tomorrow at 2pm in Trim against Antrim in the Walsh Cup.

Thanks for all the updates in 2017 Hammer. Happy new year to you and yours in 2018.

Hammer Archer

mattser wrote: »

Thanks for all the updates in 2017 Hammer. Happy new year to you and yours in 2018.

And the same to you and all Meath fans.

Decent win for the hurlers this afternoon. Hung in there against the wind in the first half thanks to 1-3 in 5 minutes. Probably got a bit lucky in the second half. Nip and tuck all the way. Antrim equalized and seemed to think that the game was over. We went straight down the other end and got the winner from Heffernan. Good to see Jack Regan back. He was excellent from placed balls.
Dublin in Abbotstown on Wednesday night will be more accessible than the footballers in Carlow.

Obrieski

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Is Andy Colgan the second keeper in the squad? Was he away for the year because I can't see him ever playing for the Donaghmore/Ashbourne seniors this year. He was the keeper for their B team last year.

I'm baffled by Andy's picks for goalkeeper yet again.

Think he was in Australia last year, a good young goalie. Hopefully he gets a chance

snowgal

Meaths first senior outing tonight vs Carlow in the O'Byrne cup. Hopefully a win....

Hammer Archer

Teams for tonight:

Walsh Cup v Dublin in Abbotstown @ 8pm
Shane McGann (Kiltale), Chris Lynch (Longwood), Damien Healy (Longwood), Shane Brennan (Kilmessan), Sean McGrath (St. Peter's, Dunboyne), Jack Regan (Kiltale), Keith Keoghan (Killyon), Anthony Forde (Kiltale), Michael O'Grady (St. Peter's, Dunboyne), James Kelly (Kiltale), Joe Keena (Kilmessan), James Toher (Trim), Adam Gannon (Killyon), Paddy Conneely (Kildalkey), Neil Heffernan (Trim)

Subs: Charlie Ennis (Trim), Padraig Kelly (Kiltale), Cathal McCabe (Kiltale), Darragh Kelly (Ratoath), Jack Walsh (O'Mahony's), Seán O'Hanrahan (Ratoath), Conor Kearney (Kildalkey), Josh Wall (Drumree), John McCluskey (Na Fianna), Eoin Marsh (Kilmessan), Mark Slevin (Na Fianna)

O'Byrne Cup v Dublin in Dr. Cullen Park @ 8pm
Andrew Colgan (Donaghmore/Ashbourne), Mickey Burke (Longwood), Conor McGill (Ratoath), Shane Gallagher, (Simonstown Gaels), Seamus Lavin (St. Peter's, Dunboyne), Brian Power (Ratoath), Shane McEntee (St. Peter's, Dunboyne), Bryan Menton (Donaghmore/Ashbourne), Adam Flanagan, (Clonard), James McEntee (Curraha), Ben Brennan (St. Colmcille's), Graham Reilly (St Colmcille's), Thomas O'Reilly (Wolfe Tones), Seán Tobin (Simonstown Gaels), Padraig McKeever (Simonstown Gaels).

Subs: Adam McDermott (Dunshaughlin), Donal Lenihan (St. Peter's, Dunboyne), Paddy Kennelly (Dunderry), Mark McCabe (Simonstown Gaels), Shane Glynn (Wolfe Tones), Brían Conlon (Simonstown Gaels), Robert Garry (Rathkenny), Daragh Griffin (Clann na nGael), Luke Moran (Trim), Daniel O'Neill (Wolfe Tones)

Think I'll head to Abbotstown. Don't really fancy trekking all the way to Carlow for an 8pm throw in.
Was expecting more new players for the footballers. Can't see the point in playing the likes of Biggy, McGill and Menton in early January.

rpurfield

Fair play Hammer, I drove past Abbotstown earlier, you'll need a few thermal layers it makes Dunganny look like an enclosed tropical paradise!!

Hammer Archer

rpurfield wrote: »

Fair play Hammer, I drove past Abbotstown earlier, you'll need a few thermal layers it makes Dunganny look like an enclosed tropical paradise!!

Ended up going to neither

Good decision by the looks of it.

Sonny678

Overall decent run out last night. Tricky opposition. Carlow are not the team we hammered by 7 goals a few seasons back. They have a good manager in O Brien. Truth be told probaly after Mayo Carlow gave Dublin their toughest test last year. Well organised with a blanket defence and have had 3 wins in the championship. A team who will get promoted from Division 4 this season. Terrible conditions last night. Not a great game of football. But we will take the win.

I have to disagree with the above comment that there was not enough new faces. At least a third of the team have never played for Meath before. At least 4 of the bench never played for Meath before. The management have clearly done a good job looking for new talent. Of the 41 panel named up to 13 players drafted that have never played Meath senior before. It's been a long time since so many newcomers where drafted in. Time will tell how many will last til the summer. But that will be up to the players given the chance rather then the management.

The team did not line up as picked. The debutants where Colgan O Neill Gallagher Brennan and Garry. Glynn and Mcabe made their debuts in the second half. That means 7 players made their Meath debut last night.

In terms of the team. Colgan made two good saves. He is a goalkeeper with his club. So he's a more specialist goalkeeper then Paddy O Rourke. I think we need this. He has a great opportunity to stake claim to the number 1 jersey for the rest of year. I think he is a good goalie.

In the full back line we had 3 debutants in O Neill Gallager and Glynn. This is good to see. With Toibin gone Burke has alott of mileage on the clock and Keoghan could be missing sometime with College. We need options here. Glynn and Gallagher are good man markers. And both had good seasons with the club. Both good natural defenders. And expect to see more of both in the Byrne cup and league. I know some in wolfe Tones see O Neill as a better full back then McGill. Time will tell. But he is one of the better young defenders in the county. And could be another option in the full back line.

At midfield Menton and Flanagan. Menton best position is wing back. But we need him in midfield. And I thought last year he showed maturity and leadership. McEntees clearly see him as number 1 midfield choice. Good to see Flanagan back. Last year was he still recovering from cruciate. But he is a natural midfielder and we need them. Rooney I expect to be Mentons partner come the summer. But he needs to get fitness back. Conlon and Mcabe are both options . And either could end up in the middle come the summer also. The loss of O Rourke Nash and Gillespie are massive. But a Rooney / Menton partnership has potential.

In the forwards good to see Lenihan back. He has also matured under the McEntees. He is now first team regular. Really delivering the goods. With Mckeevers return. Lenihan and Mckeever could form a good duo in the inside line. Thomas O Reilly has potential also.

In the half forward line. Brennan made a good impact. He's a good forward and good free taker. But he also has a bit of a edge about him. I think he could be a big addition. We need players with him in the attack. More in the Geraghty O Rourke Tommy Dowd Trevor Giles mould. And when Forde returns he is another player that has a bit of Coyle edge to him. Some of forwards recently have been good . But easily pushed around. We need toughness in the forward line. Brennan could be an important player for us. I am a fan.

The weak line is half back. A weak line for near 20 years. Centre back has been a problem for a long long time. I think Power could be a long term option. He is good at holding the middle. Something I haven't seen since McManus used to do in the 90s. Leave him at 6 and McGill at 3 for the next few seasons and both can develop into quality defenders. Shane McEntee is a very good prospect with a great attitude. But worry about him defensively. Will come good in time. But could take a season or 2. Lavin is more a corner back. I think that is his best position.

I would like Conlon to play at 5. And if Gallagher Glynn or O Neill where to show good form in the full back line push Keoghan to number 7. A half back line of Conlon Power and Keoghan for the summer would be real good. All the top teams have their best players in thr half back line now. You cannot be a top team without having attackers and Atleticism and quality in the half back line eg Dublin Sullivan McCaffrey Mcarthy Mayo Boyle Keegan Tyrone 00s Harte Gormley Jordan Kerry T O Se Park Mahony. We have not had a quality half back line since Foley Harnan and O Connell. This is an area we need to improve.

But overall a good start with some new faces. Onwards and upwards for 2018.

Hammer Archer

Welcome back Sonny! Happy New Year to you.
Great write up. I agree that with the changes made before throw in, the balance between experience and new faces was just about right.

Were Carlow just sitting deep for the entire game? It's a tactic that 4 or 5 successive Meath managers haven't been able to combat successfully.
Brennan seemed to be the most impressive of all the new faces (if not the whole team) going by reports. Did McKeever make an appearance at all during the game? Was Gallagher's injury serious by the looks of it?

You'd expect that whatever team that's put out on Sunday should have enough for Wicklow.

As for the hurlers, they've no more competitive games until the end of the month. They've two must win games against Kildare and London in 2B which will probably determine whether or not they'll be in the hunt for promotion.

rpurfield

Nice write up Sonny, I'd totally agree on one point as well, we haven't had a good 6 since McManus retired. I don't know if it's down to a lack of talent or chopping and changing but I'd agree we need to pick someone and stick with them to develop into the role

Sonny678

Thanks. Happy New Year Hammer and to all the Royals on the board. Keep up the great work Hammer. Your updates are always excellent and very much appreciated.

Regards Centre back, it has been a problem since McManus. Players from other teams running up the middle of the defence has occurred over and over again . Power is a natural holding centee back. I would leave him there. Conlon is an option also. But I think we might need him in midfield. I think we need a more defensive holding centre back. And I think Power is that. Basically we need a Ger Brennan type center back not an attacking Cian Sullivan type.

Regards performance last night. With Gallaghers injury it's hard to know. I didn't think he looked to bad. Pity he went of as he was playing well. Lavin had a good game also. Lavin and Gallagher and Glynn are good man markers and I think we need options in this department. Colgan looked good for his debut. O Neill worked hard and I think we will see much more of him.

Midfield was poor again. Flanagan has potential. But he has not found any decent form since doing his cruciate. Menton showed leadership and maturity last year. But his best position is wing back. But we need him in the middle.

Rooneys return is vital. With the mark and kickouts to 20 metres line next seaaon. Having a high fielding midfielder is now essential. We have not had a top class midfielder since McDermont. Gillespie was a great prospect and I think he could have become a top class midfielder. It's no coincidence the last good year we had was in 2013 when we had a strong midfield partnership with Gillespie and Meade at the center. So many of our defeats in recent times have been games where we have had trouble at centre field. Eg second half v Cork 07 second half v kildare 2010 and Westmeath in 2015. And many more games also. Until we have a strong partnership at center field and improve at breaking ball, we will be not be progressing. Rooney has potential and is a natural midfielder. And one of the reasons we lost v kildare last year was Feehily dominating the midfield sector. We had no one to compete with him in the high fielding department. Rooney would improve this area of the field for us.

In the forwards Lenihan showed good form last night. While Mcabe and Conlon helped turn the game for us. Conlon has been top class for his club in the last 2 seasons. In his cameos for the county, he has been excellent. He looks like he could be a big player for us in coming years. We need to find his best position. We will probaly play him at midfield until Rooney returns to full fitness. Wing back for me would be his best position.

Mckeever didn't not play. But I think he has been the best club forward in the county for the last 2 seasons. I think he could form a good partnership with Lenihan. I would also consider playing Sullivan in the full forward line. He is a top class act. But we need to get the best out of him. Eamon Wallace has had a good season for his club. If he can return to the form of 2013 that would be a massive plus. Bryan McMahon is one of the best natural inside forwards we have. He has shown some real good form in the championship already v Carlow in 2014 and Westmeath first half in 2015. He has been hampered by injuries. But I think he has potential.

The best player on view was Brennan. He took his scores well. Was always looking for the ball. And was aggressive in the tackle. I think he could be a player to watch out for. Could be and should be a starter v Roscommon. Himself and Forde could be very useful on the half forward line. I like Forde. I think he is a player we have been crying out for. A Paul Galvin /Brian Dooher type player. Forde can score but he also can get back to defend and tackle . His return in the late Spring will be a massive addition.

G Reilly looked sluggish last night. A very talented footballer. Unlucky to be around at a low ebb for the footballers. He is apable of destroying an opposition team. But I do get the feeling he has maybe two seasons left as a first team regular. As good as an attacking wing forward in the last few years in div 4 div 3 or div 2. But yet has to do it v Dublin to be considered a Meath great. But we still rely on him. We need more players standing up in the forwards. Lenihan is. Brennan looks promising. Hopefully Mckeever hits the ground running.

I think we have the making of a good team with players like Keoghan McGill Conlon Menton Rooney Sullivan Lenihan Mckeever Forde J McEntee Reilly. We have one of the young teams in the country. And this has been a disadvantage recently. Sometimes I have seen us play games where in the half back line Midfield and half foward line, we only had player in the 20 to 22 age group. Most players peak at 27. Thr Galway team that won liam last year. The average age of the team was 27. Ww have allot of players around the 23 24 age group. These players will hittheir peak in 2020 2021 2022. I can see Meath making a bigger impact in the championship then. Also at the start of the next decade Dublin could be weaker with the retirement of all time greats like Brogan Cluxton Connolly Flynn and McMahon.

The key to sucess is keeping Andy McEntee in charge for 4 or 5 years at least. When these players peak( many of them from Andys minor team of 2011) , we need Andy in charge. This will take time. We need patience. Andy is the best manager we have had since Boylan. But there is no quick fix. We don't have the underage sucess other young teams have had like Galway Tyrone Roscommon Kildare and Cavan. Many of our players have had bad experiences at underage level and senior level in the Meath jersey. It will take time to build the players up mentally.

I thought there was improvements last year in the area of fitness and stopping the second half collapses. Leaving the kildare game to one side. We finished every game strongly. And the second half collapses stopped. We have had this problem of second half collapses since Boylan left. For example Cork 07 Wexford 08 Kildare 2010 Westmeath 2015 and many more games we had very poor second half's. We even had the first proper Meath comeback in a long time when we're losing by 9 to Cork in the league and drew the game.

The kildare performances coloured many peoples opinion of the season. Kildare are a year ahead of us in development. While the result was a continuation of results, Kildare have had over Meath teams at minor and under 21 level. Kildare do have a tendency to up their game big time when they see the green and gold of Meath. Overall the gap between Kildare and Meath is not as big as people think. If the game was in Croke Park the game would have been much closer ( Croke Park is a nightmare for Kildare at the moment 5 loses in Croker in the last 2 year's. Followed beforehand by record defeats in Croker to Kerry and Dublin). And remeber Kildare played Gakway twice last year and lost on both accounts. You would expect Galway then to beat Meath. Instead Meath defeated Galway this year and drew last year v Galway and in the previous 5 or 6 meetings Meath have only been beaten once by Gakway.

The media have always upgraded Kildare and downgraded Meath. How come when Meath lose by 10 points to Dublin in 2016 it is a hammering. Yet when kildare lose to Dublin by 9 points, it's not. Kildare were not hammered by 9 points but their performance was celebrated in the media. Meaths performance in 2012 and 13 v Dublin where better then Kildares last year. Meath where ahead in 2013 at half time ( Kildare were never ahead). Meath lost by 3 points in 2012 . Yet the performance of Kildare . a 9 points defeat was more acclaimed in the media. The media always hype Kildare. The gap between us and Kildare is closer then people think.

Overall I think we will be much stronger in the coming years. Last year was always going to be tough. Nearly all manager's have a bad first year. For example Cian O Neill Kevin Walsh Donal Kingston Michael Donoghue Pat Gilroy Jimmy Barry Murphy Nicholas English Eugene McGee and many many more have had dreadful first years starts. It was not til the second year and sometimes in to the third year things turned and all the above managers turned things around. Remeber it took Sean Boylan 4 years to turn Martin O Connell liam Hayes Colm O Rourke Mick Lyons and Brian Stafford into winners.

It was highly unlikely that Andy would have made a massive impact last year. He was only getting to know the players. I think this year could be tough as well. We have Roscommon in the first match in the Hyde . A game Meath will be underdogs and a game we nearly have to win. The only way our team will develop is in Division 1.We have not been in divsion 1 since 2007. And have only played their once since 2001. That stat alone explains why we have had little sucess in the last while. Get promoted to div 1 and stay there and we will win a leinster title, it will happen.

So it so important we have the McEntees in charge in 2020 when our players mature. We have a very small team in stature. The last time we made a serious impact in the championship was 09 and 2010. We had a big powerful team then. When these players reached 26 27 28 they will be much better in the tackle and able to with the physicality of Dublin and Ulster teams. Our record v Ulster teams is shocking. In the last 15 years we have been knocked out of the championship 7 times by Ulster teams eg Cavan Fermanagh Armagh Derry Donegal Tyrone ( twice). We have found it hard to deal with the physicality of Ulster teams but also the sweeper and blanket defence. Even last night we seemed to have problems v Carlow defence. We seem you fall between two stools 1 Trying to play a possession game.2 Trying to play a traditional game. We end up playing neither. And our game suffers. Until we get structure to our game, we are going nowhere. Play the modern way like Dublin. But overall I am optimistic and looking forward to 2018.

Hammer Archer

I hope that you're right about the future. We've got several great younger players that will probably be on the fringes of the senior team in the next 4-5 years. And we finally seem to have some big lads on the way up (Daithi McGowan was U17 this year and I think is around 6'4"). By then, hopefully we'll have a good blend of experience and youth. I agree that McEntee should be kept on for another few years (unless we massively regress in that time).

With Biggy, I wouldn't be too worried about him not performing at this time of year. Too many times he's put in phenomenal performances in January only to run out of puff in the summer. He had a lot of football in 16-17 without a break with Meath and Colmcilles so I'd say he's on his way back to fitness now.

I'd hope that Andy is focusing on the league this year. Regardless of how well we do, we're not getting past the Leinster semi final.

rpurfield

Obviously we don't know what's said in camp but I would've liked to see Biggy have the O'Byrne cup off this year. Between club and county he was at it non stop from the start of 2016 until August or September gone, and he ships some big hits in games so I think an extended breather would be good for him. I agree that we're a few years away from the breakthrough as well, you'd hope that U17 team is the start of a stream coming through for us because we need to start seeing some success at the lower grades to breathe it into senior.

Sonny678

In an ideal world we should use Reilly sparingly. Even as an impact sub to come on in the last 15 mins to run at defences. But we need him to play in as many games. He still is our go to man. Until some of our forwards really start step up to the plate. Reilly will have a big role in our attack.

I feel he sometimes gets to much criticism. If he was around in the 90s when you had 6 backs on 6 forwards. There would have been more room for a player who runs with the ball like him. Even Michael Donnellan and Graham Geraghty would find it difficult to run with the ball in todays game. When your facing two sweepers and 15 players behind the ball. He is double marked in big games. Teams know if you stop Reilly you have a good chance of stopping Meath. If we play Reilly in the 40 we need someone like Forde to play here also who can get back and defend.

Sonny678

We have some good young players coming through which should make an impact in 4 or 5 years time. We need to see more sucess at underage level. There is no coincidence that Kildare Galway Westmeath Roscommon have all been promoted to div 1 and have had huge underage sucess also.

Overall this decade Dublin and Kildare have wiped the floor with us at underage level. Not 1 leinster title win at minor level since 2008. And not 1 leinster title at under 21 in 16 years and only 1 leinster final under 21 appearance in 16 years are telling stats.

The gap has closed between Kildare and Dublin and us at underage recently. We had 2 strong minor teams in the last 2 year's. But didn't reach a leinster minor final in both years. We need that improve in the next 3 to 4 years. Hopefully the under 17 win last year is a sign of things to come. Dublin had a couple of great underage teams recently. However Meath minors hammering Dublin last year , this year's game when our minors went 9 up at half time and our comprehensive victory in this year's under 17 leinster final v Dublin. And victories over the old enemy at under 14 15 16 level recently would indicate the gap has closed between both counties and even suggest we could be stronger.

However there is such a great energy around Dublin GAA at the moment even an average under age team from Dublin could win leinster. Kildare have had a strong period over 4 or 5 years at underage level recently also. There is a chance that Kildare could dip now a bit as underage sucess usually goes in cycles. If Dublin are dipping a bit also. There is a chance for another county to be sucessful at new underage 17 and under 20 grades.

There is an opportunity for these young talented Meath players to win leinster title. If we don't win 1 or 2 leinster titles at under 17 or under 20 level in the next 4 or 5 years that would be very disappointing. Truthfully we should be looking to put 3 or 4 titles back to back like Roscommon did in Connacht and Cavan did in Ulster. This year's Under 20 team look strong on paper but we need to see some sucess at this level soon. Involving ex players like Graham Geraghty at underage level is a most. Geragthy is a legendary ex player . Has experienced management at different levels. And wants to manage Meath seniors in the future . In any other county he would be brought into to help with underage teams. We need to show a bit more initiative at underage level. We need to be more active then reactive.

Sonny678

I was reading Michael Foley Kings of September at Christmas. It the story of the 1982 final between Offaly and Kerry and the background story of both teams. It is an excellent read. But it has a relevance for us in Meath. What Andy McEntee has to do is what McGee in Offaly had to do in 1980 and Meath did in 1986. Dublin were just as dominate in 1979 and 1985 as they were now. The only difference was they couldn't beat Kerry in the late 70s and early 80s. Now this decade kerry cannot beat Dublin. Dublin have replaced Kerry as the number 1 county.

McGee and Offaly took 6 years to win an All Ireland and nearly 4 years to knock Dublin from their perch in leinster in 1980. It also took Sean Boylan 4 years to win knock Dublin from their perch in 1986. In his first two years McGee had little impact in Offaly. It was not til his third game v Dublin in 1980 they at long last toppled Dublin. It's going to take Andy McEntee a period of years also to beat Dublin. He shouldn't be giving a pass. If we regress or he loses the dressing room of course he must go after year 3. But I believe our best chance of sucess, to make an impact is to give McEntee 4 or 5 years and let him get on with it.

Sonny678

Overall areas that need to be addressed are

1 Midfield. We need a proper strong midfield partnership.

2 We need to win more breaking ball

3 We need a strong half back line
Eg We need to sort out the centre back position at long last. For me leave Power for a few seasons and he will come good.

4 We need Atleticism and attacking threat from wing backs eg Keegan Mayo and McCaffrey Dublin. Overall a strong half back is essential for progress. It is the foundation for future sucess. All the top teams have top.class wing backs centre backs and an half back line.

5 We need more attackers to make bigger impact

6 We need to make sure that Harnan and Toibin are replaced this league. Both made a difference when they were introduced during last year's league. We need two inter county defenders to replace them this year. If we don't our defence will be weaker this year. And so we will be weaker this year.

7 We need to deal with sweepers and blanket defences better

8 We need to settle on a style of play a structure to our play. And keep to it. Consistently will improve if we do.

9 But overall getting to Division 1 and staying there will decide if we are sucessful. Andy has already said the promotion to Division 1 is his priority this year. Ahead of even progress in the chamouinship.

But this does not mean it will happen. We have spent the last 16 years outside Division 1 with the exception of 1 year in 2007. We have spent 2 year's in div 3 and a whopping 13 years in Division 2. Why has this happened?

We have a great tradition in league football with only Dublin kerry Cork and Mayo having more divsion 1 league titles. We have won the national league Division 1 title in the 1930s 1940s 1970s 1980s and 1990s. And we have reached Division 1 finals in 30s 40s 50s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. It has led to many All Ireland sucess. So why have we dropped our league status so much. Many reasons have massively contribute to us staying in div 2.

1 The chopping and changing of managers .

In the last 11 years we have had 7 managers. Eg Boylan Barry Coyle O Brien Banty O Dowd and McEntee. A new manager comes in. The first year is a right off from the start. The manager is getting to know players in the league. The chopping and changing of manager leads to inconsistency in team selection and tactics. A new manager comes in. Drops players and brings in his own players. He also brings in his own tactics. This disruption has halted our return to the top flight.

2 Local Derbys in Division 2

In Division 2 we have had so many local derby's year after year. Games v kildare Cavan Louth Westmeath Monaghan. Local derbies can be close affairs. Also our neighbours do attend to up their game when they play the green and gold of Meath. So many local derbies have lost us points.

3 Division 2 Turning into a mini Ulster championship

Divsion 2 has turned into a mini Ulster championship in recent times. 1 year I think there was 5 Ulster teams in divsion 2. We have had problems dealing with the physicality of Ulster teams and their blanket defences and sweepers in recent times. We have gone from a team that was Ulster teams main bogey team ( 14 All Ireland semi final games v Ulster teams and 14 wins no loses) to a county who cannot beat any Ulster opposition. We have been knocked out of the championship in the last 15 years 7 times by Ulster teams. While our victory over Down last year in Newry was our first win v Ulster opposition in Ulster in a long time. Division 2 has become an Ulster mini championship at times and that has led to the loss of points also.

4 Bad luck.

We have finished 3rd 3 of the last 4 years in div 2. We have lost out to promotion on points difference scoring difference and head to head. If we were not giving a free against us for wasting time in the dying minutes v Donegal one year or if we had beaten Down last year or stopped Roscommon scoring a flukes goal in the Hyde 2 year's ago we would have been promoted .

Hopefully this year our luck will change. If we did go up in the last few years we would have been relegated the next season. However if we go up this year. The average age will be 25 next year. We will physically better to deal with div 1. Quite a few teams will have allot of mileage or in transition next year 2019 in div 1. And we usually traditionally play better against the stronger counties.

So promotion and staying in div 1 is the key. And it is possible and attainable. But it will be tough.

Obrieski

Sonny678 wrote: »

Thanks. Happy New Year Hammer and to all the Royals on the board. Keep up the great work Hammer. Your updates are always excellent and very much appreciated.

Regards Centre back, it has been a problem since McManus. Players from other teams running up the middle of the defence has occurred over and over again . Power is a natural holding centee back. I would leave him there. Conlon is an option also. But I think we might need him in midfield. I think we need a more defensive holding centre back. And I think Power is that. Basically we need a Ger Brennan type center back not an attacking Cian Sullivan type.

Regards performance last night. With Gallaghers injury it's hard to know. I didn't think he looked to bad. Pity he went of as he was playing well. Lavin had a good game also. Lavin and Gallagher and Glynn are good man markers and I think we need options in this department. Colgan looked good for his debut. O Neill worked hard and I think we will see much more of him.

Midfield was poor again. Flanagan has potential. But he has not found any decent form since doing his cruciate. Menton showed leadership and maturity last year. But his best position is wing back. But we need him in the middle.

Rooneys return is vital. With the mark and kickouts to 20 metres line next seaaon. Having a high fielding midfielder is now essential. We have not had a top class midfielder since McDermont. Gillespie was a great prospect and I think he could have become a top class midfielder. It's no coincidence the last good year we had was in 2013 when we had a strong midfield partnership with Gillespie and Meade at the center. So many of our defeats in recent times have been games where we have had trouble at centre field. Eg second half v Cork 07 second half v kildare 2010 and Westmeath in 2015. And many more games also. Until we have a strong partnership at center field and improve at breaking ball, we will be not be progressing. Rooney has potential and is a natural midfielder. And one of the reasons we lost v kildare last year was Feehily dominating the midfield sector. We had no one to compete with him in the high fielding department. Rooney would improve this area of the field for us.

In the forwards Lenihan showed good form last night. While Mcabe and Conlon helped turn the game for us. Conlon has been top class for his club in the last 2 seasons. In his cameos for the county, he has been excellent. He looks like he could be a big player for us in coming years. We need to find his best position. We will probaly play him at midfield until Rooney returns to full fitness. Wing back for me would be his best position.

Mckeever didn't not play. But I think he has been the best club forward in the county for the last 2 seasons. I think he could form a good partnership with Lenihan. I would also consider playing Sullivan in the full forward line. He is a top class act. But we need to get the best out of him. Eamon Wallace has had a good season for his club. If he can return to the form of 2013 that would be a massive plus. Bryan McMahon is one of the best natural inside forwards we have. He has shown some real good form in the championship already v Carlow in 2014 and Westmeath first half in 2015. He has been hampered by injuries. But I think he has potential.

The best player on view was Brennan. He took his scores well. Was always looking for the ball. And was aggressive in the tackle. I think he could be a player to watch out for. Could be and should be a starter v Roscommon. Himself and Forde could be very useful on the half forward line. I like Forde. I think he is a player we have been crying out for. A Paul Galvin /Brian Dooher type player. Forde can score but he also can get back to defend and tackle . His return in the late Spring will be a massive addition.

G Reilly looked sluggish last night. A very talented footballer. Unlucky to be around at a low ebb for the footballers. He is apable of destroying an opposition team. But I do get the feeling he has maybe two seasons left as a first team regular. As good as an attacking wing forward in the last few years in div 4 div 3 or div 2. But yet has to do it v Dublin to be considered a Meath great. But we still rely on him. We need more players standing up in the forwards. Lenihan is. Brennan looks promising. Hopefully Mckeever hits the ground running.

I think we have the making of a good team with players like Keoghan McGill Conlon Menton Rooney Sullivan Lenihan Mckeever Forde J McEntee Reilly. We have one of the young teams in the country. And this has been a disadvantage recently. Sometimes I have seen us play games where in the half back line Midfield and half foward line, we only had player in the 20 to 22 age group. Most players peak at 27. Thr Galway team that won liam last year. The average age of the team was 27. Ww have allot of players around the 23 24 age group. These players will hittheir peak in 2020 2021 2022. I can see Meath making a bigger impact in the championship then. Also at the start of the next decade Dublin could be weaker with the retirement of all time greats like Brogan Cluxton Connolly Flynn and McMahon.

The key to sucess is keeping Andy McEntee in charge for 4 or 5 years at least. When these players peak( many of them from Andys minor team of 2011) , we need Andy in charge. This will take time. We need patience. Andy is the best manager we have had since Boylan. But there is no quick fix. We don't have the underage sucess other young teams have had like Galway Tyrone Roscommon Kildare and Cavan. Many of our players have had bad experiences at underage level and senior level in the Meath jersey. It will take time to build the players up mentally.

I thought there was improvements last year in the area of fitness and stopping the second half collapses. Leaving the kildare game to one side. We finished every game strongly. And the second half collapses stopped. We have had this problem of second half collapses since Boylan left. For example Cork 07 Wexford 08 Kildare 2010 Westmeath 2015 and many more games we had very poor second half's. We even had the first proper Meath comeback in a long time when we're losing by 9 to Cork in the league and drew the game.

The kildare performances coloured many peoples opinion of the season. Kildare are a year ahead of us in development. While the result was a continuation of results, Kildare have had over Meath teams at minor and under 21 level. Kildare do have a tendency to up their game big time when they see the green and gold of Meath. Overall the gap between Kildare and Meath is not as big as people think. If the game was in Croke Park the game would have been much closer ( Croke Park is a nightmare for Kildare at the moment 5 loses in Croker in the last 2 year's. Followed beforehand by record defeats in Croker to Kerry and Dublin). And remeber Kildare played Gakway twice last year and lost on both accounts. You would expect Galway then to beat Meath. Instead Meath defeated Galway this year and drew last year v Galway and in the previous 5 or 6 meetings Meath have only been beaten once by Gakway.

The media have always upgraded Kildare and downgraded Meath. How come when Meath lose by 10 points to Dublin in 2016 it is a hammering. Yet when kildare lose to Dublin by 9 points, it's not. Kildare were not hammered by 9 points but their performance was celebrated in the media. Meaths performance in 2012 and 13 v Dublin where better then Kildares last year. Meath where ahead in 2013 at half time ( Kildare were never ahead). Meath lost by 3 points in 2012 . Yet the performance of Kildare . a 9 points defeat was more acclaimed in the media. The media always hype Kildare. The gap between us and Kildare is closer then people think.

Overall I think we will be much stronger in the coming years. Last year was always going to be tough. Nearly all manager's have a bad first year. For example Cian O Neill Kevin Walsh Donal Kingston Michael Donoghue Pat Gilroy Jimmy Barry Murphy Nicholas English Eugene McGee and many many more have had dreadful first years starts. It was not til the second year and sometimes in to the third year things turned and all the above managers turned things around. Remeber it took Sean Boylan 4 years to turn Martin O Connell liam Hayes Colm O Rourke Mick Lyons and Brian Stafford into winners.

It was highly unlikely that Andy would have made a massive impact last year. He was only getting to know the players. I think this year could be tough as well. We have Roscommon in the first match in the Hyde . A game Meath will be underdogs and a game we nearly have to win. The only way our team will develop is in Division 1.We have not been in divsion 1 since 2007. And have only played their once since 2001. That stat alone explains why we have had little sucess in the last while. Get promoted to div 1 and stay there and we will win a leinster title, it will happen.

So it so important we have the McEntees in charge in 2020 when our players mature. We have a very small team in stature. The last time we made a serious impact in the championship was 09 and 2010. We had a big powerful team then. When these players reached 26 27 28 they will be much better in the tackle and able to with the physicality of Dublin and Ulster teams. Our record v Ulster teams is shocking. In the last 15 years we have been knocked out of the championship 7 times by Ulster teams eg Cavan Fermanagh Armagh Derry Donegal Tyrone ( twice). We have found it hard to deal with the physicality of Ulster teams but also the sweeper and blanket defence. Even last night we seemed to have problems v Carlow defence. We seem you fall between two stools 1 Trying to play a possession game.2 Trying to play a traditional game. We end up playing neither. And our game suffers. Until we get structure to our game, we are going nowhere. Play the modern way like Dublin. But overall I am optimistic and looking forward to 2018.

Sonny, any chance you would just run for Meath GAA chairman. So much sense spoken in this post, and a lot of thought put into it too.

Your overall point that McEntee needs to be there is crucial also, I think he is the best man for the job and needs time to build his team.

Sonny678

Obrieski why did u copy my message. It's either you think people should read it coz interesting a good read or u think look at this Meath man's rambling he's lost the plot. I am puzzled . Please tell Obrieski why u copied?
Sorry to the guys on the Meath thread I launched into 4 or 5 long winded ramblings on the state of Meath football. Watching the game v Carlow clearly has made me very excited for the new year.

Anyway the Roscommon game is a 6 pointer. They will be strong favs. But we need to win. Donegal Kildare Tyrone got promoted the right way. Won their first 5 matchs and where promoted even before the last game. If we could do that instead of getting our calculators at on the final day to work out where we stand . That would be great. I don't think Cork Clare or Cavan are going well. But we could lose any those games. Roscommon look favs to go up. Are one of the best young teams in the country. They had a great year last year. But young teams can be up and down. One good season followed by an average year. Time will tell in the Rossies case. I wouldn't rule out Down. Always decent in the league. And in the last few years Kildare Roscommon and Monaghan all went straight from div 3 to div 2 to div 1 in consecutive seasons. Cavan went up quickly also. Don't be surprised Tipp or Louth the two promoted teams from div 3 are in the mix. Pete McGrath is a shrewd terrific manager. And Tipp have buckets of potential. It's all to play for.

Hammer Archer

He was complimenting your posts Sonny :pac:
Read the last two paragraphs.

Obrieski

Sonny, I thought your post was brilliant!
It really summed up the situation that I see.

Anyway, on to tomorrow, a lot of changes which is good, gives lads a chance.

Rooney back in midfield, be great to see how he is moving.
All the talk about his fielding ability, all well and good, but we need midfielders who can run too which I didn't think was a big part of his play so hopefully that is something we are seeing.

I hope for a win and another day out to give lads a run...beats training always

Sonny678

Thanks Obrieski. Your a gentleman. Sorry I wasn't looking for compliments. It was I write these long rambling messages that go in all directions. My worry is that can anyone follow them. Are they an incoherent mess. That message was so long. Boards ie cut of the last 3 paragraphs. I just thought it was incoherent. As long as you follow that's the main thing.

Regards Rooney. Well this is an obsession for me. If you look at our loses over the years losing the midfield battle is a common theme. Cork 07 Kildare 10 Westmeath 15 . All those games v Monaghan in the league in 13 14, I think. The game would turn when the opposition would win / clean us out in midfield and win all the breaking ball. If we can sort out our half back line and midfield , we are back. I'm very certain of that.

The problem is we have lost potentially 3 top class midfielders eg Nash O Rourke and Gillespie. Gillespie is a massive loss. We won the midfield battle v Dublin in 13. Dominated Dublin at midfield in the first half and where 2 ahead at half time. We should have been 8 or 9 ahead. We missed goal chances. That was the last game in leinster a leinster team really gave Dublin a headache. Meade and Gillespie were at the centre of midfield.

We have only beaten 1 Ulster team in Ulster recently eg Down in 2016 or 2015. Gillespie was at the centre of midfield. Menton was wing back. And both had great games. Gillespie totally dominated the midfield sector and we won by 7 points. One of O Dowds best wins. I think Gillespie could have became one of the best if not the best midfielder in the country. He reminded me so much of Dara O Se. So his loss coupled with Nash and O Rourke have been massive.

I know what your saying about pace and atleticism. But the last time we made impact was in 09 and 10 when we had a big powerful team. We did lack pace though. In the two years 2010 and 2011 we defeated in the championship Offaly by 10 points Laois by 10 points Louth by 11 points Dublin by 10 points and coming up to half time v Kildare in 2010 we were 7 points up before we were hit for 2 late goals. The fallout from 2010 final fiasco basically finished of the 07 to 10 team , which had huge potential. In 09 we played Dublin and Kerry and we were dreadful in both games but still only lost by a couple of points. We had good forwards eg Two Brays Geragty O Rourke Reilly Bryne Farrell Sheridan Ward and big men around the centre Crawford Ward Moyles Kevin Reilly. We did lack pace though.

We have pace in recent years. But for some reason we produce smaller players. It means when Meath players go into the tackle they are easily tackled and possession is easily given up. Dublin have the perfect mix eg players built like tanks, but full of pace. We need to get the right mix.

Last year we had Menton and Jones v Feehily in the kildare game. Feehily won hands down. Menton is talented footballer. He is our Graham Canty in that he is so versatile. He can play any position from 2 to 10. He could be a top class number 7 wing back. But actually his best position could be full back. I think he could be become a brillant full back. But he would be wasted in there. And we already have McGill in at full back. A player who has replaced Kevin Reilly very well.

Menton is atletic. He brings that to midfield. And under Gerry McEntees tutorship last year, I thought he matured and developed into an effective midfielder. Jones is a good prospect. The cameos against Louth in the last 15 mins and 5 mins v Sligo before the injury, he looked a classy footballer full of Atleticism. But both against Feehily, a traditional midfielder were not able to stop him dominating. We lack a traditional midfielder. That is what Rooney is. I think if we played Kildare and if Rooney was match fit. Feehilys influence would be curbed.

Alot of people say that to me about Rooneys pace or lack off. And against Dublin in 2016 it was evident he was struggling against the pace of Dublin in the middle. And he has yet to have man of the match performances for Meath. But for me long with Flanagan are they the only two natural midfielders, basically good high fielders, we have.

He has aggression also which we need. He is 24 and most midfielders come of age around 27 or 28. ( Exceptions of course were Jack O Se Sean Cavangh and Brian Fenton). For example John McDermott came on the Meath panel in 91. But it was not till end of 96 people started to recognise his greatness. Up to the Tyrone game in 96 people were saying we had a weak midfield.

Also I remeber we played Dublin in Byrne cup in Navan under O Dowd. Dublin had alot of their best players on show. Dean Rock was playing . Yet we went toe with Dublin and they pulled away in the dying minutes. One of the reasons was Rooney had an outstanding game at midfield and almost singlehandedly drove us on. It was like McDermont or McEntee or Hayes in their prime. We need Rooney back. And over the next few years if he can develop into a quality midfielder it would be a massive boost. A Rooney/ Menton partnership would have a good balance to it. A Rooney /Flanagan partnership would be more traditional, but it could work. Because I think in the midfield battle there is going to be change in the next few seasons.

We have never really adapted to the changes in football in the last 16 years. Neither have Down or Galway eg Sweepers blanket defences. But 1 major problem has been tactics at midfield. Under Sean Boylan Meath didn't do tactics. Meaths football was based on 2 words , organised chaos. Every man fight for the ball like his life depended on it. Kick and catch. Long balls into forward line. Where forwards like Geraghty and O Rourke would fight tooth and nail for the ball. You cannot just kick the ball into full forword line anymore.

Our midfield tactics under Boylan was the goalkeeper drove straight out to the center . Where you had McEntee McDermont and Hayes in the middle. So this was not a problem. Every manager since Boylan has continued this policy . It's hasn't worked. Tactics are now part and parcel of midfield play. Only under Banty when he had Paul Grimley as coach did I think we had more of a kickout strategy and we had a breaking ball strategy.

Under Boylan breaking ball tactic was based on two players. Kevin Foley and Paddy Reynolds jnr. The amount of ball those two men won was unreal. The last player I think we had that was good at breaking ball was Seamus Kenny.

Anyway Tyrone in the 00s had tactics with breaking ball. While Dublin brought tactics to a new level with Cluxtons kickout strategy. No other player has had as much an influence as Cluxton. He is not a goalkeeper, he is a football quater back.

I think there is a seachange coming in the future years. The mark and kickouts past the 20 metre line rule will change everything. Teams will have to go long more . This means having high fielders at centre field will be essential. I can see even Dublin having problems. Against Mayo they went long in the first half in the final last year. Mayo dominated. They went short in the second half. They didn't lose a kickout. This new rule will mean we will see more long kickouts. That's where players like Flanagan and Rooney will be strong.

Overall I am positive. But it will take time . I can see this year being up and down. More progress next year. But in year 4 and 5 We will then make an impact on the championship. This is a long process. But we need to be patient. If you look at past examples to the situation we are in at the moment, it is not an overnight sucess. If Andy could gain promotion this year would be great. But it's far from a certainty. It took Kevin Walsh 3 years to get Galway promoted. It could be similar for us.

But things can change very quickly. And as a county we have a remarkable ability to retransform ourselves, come from nowhere and knock Dublin from their perch and become the dominate force in leinster football and follow up with All Ireland sucess. That seems like a pipedream now, foolish talk. But we were in worst positions in the spring of 1947 1964 1975 1986. And weren't in a great position in 96. We know what happened next. Every generation of Dublin players go up a level . Are seen as unbeatable. And every generation of Meath players knocks them from their perch. Some might say this is history. But I would rather have this history and tradition, then not have it . But for me it's not our tradition that makes me confident. It's our future players. When I saw our 17s winning leinster this year v Dublin . And our minors hammering Dublin last year and this year's minor tearing Dublin to pieces in the first half. For me that showed me, we still got it. As my uncle used to say long ago, we are the only ones in leinster that can beat those Dublin f@#$$$ers. He is right. Meath for Sam 2021.

Felexicon

2-10 - 0-5 at half time. Some good performances from Meath but Wicklow are very poor

Sonny678

Agree with the above. We were very good. Wicklow poor.

The negatives
Wicklow were poor
The positives
The Dubs were beaten

We look very fit and sharp . Definitely work again in this department has improved
We played very well 4 -19 is a massive score. And we r capable of this . Remeber the 27 points v louth.

Gallagher did little wrong. Glynn and Moran looked good in defence. Glynn a good man marker. Him and Shane Gallagher and Dan O Neill could be pushing for a corner back place if Keoghan stays wing back.

Delighted to see Keoghan and Conlon on the half back line. If we can find a corner back. Keoghan needs to stay here. All the top teams have their best players in the half back line. It is the pivotal line on the field. Where so many attacks start. Keoghan is wasted in the corner. Placing him in the half back line on the wing, he is more effective. Conlon also impressive. This guy is going to play for us for years. If we can find a partner for Menton. Conlon has to play half back. I would like him wing back. With Power centre. But maybe Conlon is more effective in the centre. We have had a center back problem for a long time. Now we have a clear choice between a more holding centre back Power and Atleticism attacking center back Conlon. I would play both. But as long as Keoghan and Conlon are in the half back line this is a massive plus. And could transform this Meath team.

Flanagan I thought looked good. He has definatly come on from last year. Where he was suffering from the cruciate lay off. Rooney looks rusty which is expected a year away from football. But a springs training will knock off the cobwebs.

Mcabe could be an asset. He had eye for a score and drifts behind defences. Could be effective v blanket defences. Toibin worked so hard. While so did Kennelly. Another player unlucky with injuries last season. I think Kennelly or Mcabe could be an asset on the 40. Toner looked good also on the 40. We seem to have allot of options in the half forward line. O Coleains loss will not be felt. Reilly showed moments of excellence.Lenihan also I think is a player maturing nicely.

Overall a very good performance against poor opposition. The key now is for Andy to get the right mix for the Roscommon. Our regular first team players with a couple of new players who have impressed. I still think Conlon and Keoghan in thr half back line could be a massive plus and could push this team on big time. Bring on longford.

Hammer Archer

Hard to really take anything from that. Wicklow were awful.

Thought Toner did really well for the 30 minutes or so he was on as did Joey Wallace when he came on. McCabe showed very well and won a lot of ball but also wasted a few attempts.

Longford next week. Anyone know if McKeever is injured? Would have expected him to have made at least one appearance.

Sonny678

Toner did look good. Very impressed with him. J Wallace also did make an impact. He could be used an impact sub. He came on last year and made an impact as a sub in the league. Plenty of ability just we all know he is a bit light. One those players as he fills out and reaches 25 26 27 he will be more equipped for the inter county game. He has potential .

4-19 is still a great score. That's what a div 1 team would be putting up on to div 4 team . We couldn't do any more.

Mckeever was set to play v Carlow on Wednesday but was injured before match. He should be soon back.
Barry Dardis is also injured . But he will be soon back also. Dardis was one of the reasons why Summerhill reached the county final. Along with Ratoaths Bobby O Brien, Dardis and O Brien are the two best centre forwards in the county. I'm looking forward to seen him play.
Cillian Sullivan and Eamon Wallace are also injured.

So quite a few forwards to come back. Mckeever been the most interesting. Best forward in club football. If he could step up and make an impact. Himself and Lenihan could form a strong inside line.

rpurfield

Couldn't make it today but got the second half on LMFM sounded like the game was over at half time. At least it's another game and another chance to look at lads. I'm brutal with names, was Barry Dardis at centre half forward for Summerhill in the county final?

EICVD

A really poor Dubs team beaten in the O’Byrne Cup is a positive for Meath, gas! Desperate times still I see.

Hammer Archer

Oh look who's back