deezell wrote: » Yes. Your system sounds like you have a single timer to fire the boiler in general, with the thermostat opening a zone valve to control the heating. Gas boilers are pumped internally afaik, so this the only way to prevent heating while firing is with a zone valve. Is the heating limited to the timer settings also? If so the system will need a change of wiring to properly seperate timed heating from timed HW, which the nest control box (heatlink) can do. Maybe post a pic of the programmer or the model no.
fletch wrote: » Is Nest suitable for me? I have a gas condenser boiler. I have a programmer in the kitchen that I set to come on and off as per a schedule. A thermometer in the hall regulates the temperature to the radiators. In the Summer, I can turn the thermometer to a low temperature which ensures the radiators don't come on but the boiler fires (according to the timer) to heat the hot water cylinder. I don't have the immersion wired up as I was told it's cheaper to heat the water cylinder using the gas. If I get nest, will I be able to just heat the hot water and not the radiators?
kerry_blue wrote: » Thanks deezell! We were thinking of just doing the living area for now as that is the zone we would like to control remotely. Would Nest work if we just used it in this zone? And left the other 3 zones as they are? Or is Tado/Netatmo a better solution even if we were just doing this 1 zone? thanks!
kerry_blue wrote: » Hi, I was looking for some advise to see if Nest would work with our system. We have a condensing oil boiler, 4 zones (living, bedrooms, upstairs and hot water), each zone has a robus room stat (hot water has a different stat) and it is controlled by a Horstmann channel plus which has a channel for each zone (4 channels). I was thinking of getting a Nest through the Electric Ireland offer to replace the stat in the living area. We would like to be able to turn on the heating remotely when not at home. Will Nest work in this setup? Is there any other similar stat that would work better than Nest? thanks!
deezell wrote: » I do reckon and you assume correctly. Ext kit will wire to 2 zone valves, heating zone valve and HW valve ( via cylinder stat. You have an S plan 3 zone. Heating zone stat ( Tado) connects wirelessly when used with the ext kit, so it wires directly to its zone valve.
skerry wrote: » ......So do you reckon that if the grey/ orange from HW valve are connected to the grey/ orange from the heating zone valve this would solve HW issue and allow HW valve call for heat again?..... ...I presume extension kit can be installed in hotpress and connected up to the wiring on the zone valve? Thanks again for the help.
deezell wrote: » You're pretty much spot on in your assessment I'd say. The live from the HW timer, if one is installed, goes via the HW cylinder stat, then to the valve to open it. If the grey / orange microswitch wires do not connect a live back to the boiler SL input, " call for heat", then something else has to , and you're surmising, probably correctly, that's it one of the heating zone calls. This call may be from the grey/ orange of that heating zone valve, but it's possible these are not wired either, which would be incorrect. Check if the two heating zone valves have their microswitch relay wires wired. Once a system uses zone valves, the lives from the various timer/ stat pairs no longer directly connect to the boiler SL to turn it on, they just connect to the zone valves and the zone valves in turn call the boiler via their microswitches. This allows multiple zones to call the boiler without opening each other's zone valves, which is what would happen if you connected all the timer/ stat outputs to each other to call the boiler. If your heating zones are correctly wired, you just need to connect the grey/orange from one of them to the HW valve grey/ orange. Also test to see that the live that opens the HW valve, brown wire, is not going maybe to another valve to turn it on to call the boiler indirectly. Zone valve wiring can confuse sparks, so no surprise plumbers are often lost. The fact that your HW valve is different brand to the heating zone valves looks like it was fitted later maybe as part of a solar install, so some wiring errors may have occurred. Its also possible that it's connected via the solar wiring to cut flow from the boiler when the solar heating pump kicks in. There are many interpretations of how this is done. Finally, the extension kit will give two SL outputs if configured for heating/ HW. The kit is a direct plug on replacement for British standard 2 zone backplates, so the two outputs will go to their respective valves if you had a basic 2 zone timer such as an EPH. The heating SL will not call the boiler for the HW, if it did then both would be on together anyway, as this SL opens one of your zone heating valves. The HW contacts are used to open the HW valve, in series with the cylinder stat. Get the HW grey/ orange pair wired across to the same pairs on the heating valves first, and confirm if you now can heat the water via the cylinder stat. Once this is right, you can interject the extension kit HW contacts into the valve control live, so the tado can control the timing of HW, the cylinder stat cobtrolling the temperature. Here's a link to a 2 zone valve wiring diagram with 2 zone timer and stats. In your system your timer is part of the tp5 zone stat, but the wiring of the zone valves to call the boiler should be the same as this.
skerry wrote: » @Deezell - I'm back to pick your brains again...apologies in advance I posted a few pages back about honeywell zone valve for HW circuit being in Manual Open position and therefore constantly firing the boiler and giving me no control over how much hot water is being produced. I had presumed this was because the valve was knackered so I ordered a new valve head. I was doing a bit of research into installing the valve and had a peek into the junction box for the current valve and the grey and orange wires are not connected. My understanding is that, without these wires connected, the valve isn't able to call for heat unless its in manual open position. So it seems I can't control my hot water properly without these wires connected, not sure how much of a job this is but its beyond my skill level. And if I replace zone valve and don't get these wires sorted I think the valve should be able to respond to the stat but is dependant on the upstairs heating zone valve to call for heat to let it heat water (hopefully thats all correct). Anyway, my question is, if I'm looking at getting a Tado Extension kit and have this wired up, does this then take over the job of firing the boiler for hot water demand and would that negate the need to have the grey and orange wire in the zone valve wired up? I'm guessing the valve with still have to open and close as the stats tells it to but if the Tado takes over firing the boiler then I'd rather just order an extension kit and have that wired up instead. There's also a chance I'm misunderstanding the purpose of the Extension Kit here but just don't want to spend more money on the zone valve wiring unless it needs to be sorted in order for the extension kit to function properly
Irish Gunner wrote: » Has anyone with Netatmo used the bot yet?https://www.netatmo.com/blog/en/ I just control my valves and Thermo via the app not sure about this?
deezell wrote: » For simplest self install, Tado or Netamo, Honeywell lyric, assuming you already have a pre wired thermostat. Nest requires a little more knowledge to self install. If you're happy with a single zone, any of the above, with a slight preference for Nest. If you want to add smart TRVS later under a single app interface, Tado or Netamo are good options, also Evohome. Search this thread, or just read it all!
budhabob wrote: » What was your average previously, and what kind of usage did you have?
Ush1 wrote: » Just a more general question on heating costs than specific to home automation. I got my boiler upgraded in my house recently to a ideal logic combi, house is a 3 bed semi with an attic conversion. Got the first bill after getting the new boiler and it's 270 euro. Much higher than any bill I've had before. Now I will say we never had heating controls before(using the eph ember with this new boiler) and we just constantly boost the heating. Would that be what would cause such a big bill?
CantGetNoSleep wrote: » Thank you for your reply - so you think Nest is best option or would you go for one of the other systems you mention? Are there any TRV's that you suggest?
deezell wrote: » Nest in Europe comes complete with a relay box to switch mains voltage ( or volt free) boiler call for heat. US nest is designed to directly connect to low current boiler call. Any single smart stat will replace your current stat. Nest requires a little more installation than just a straight swap of your current two wire stat ( if thats what you have). The relay box does allow wireless location of the stat. As you have only a single zone you may wish to zone in the future using smart TRVs on the rads. Although NEST doesn't connect to smart TRVs they can be installed in a general NEST single zone and controlled by their own app, by Google home if the TRVs support this, and can be made to act as an integrated system using IFTTT control apps, which would, for example, take an instruction to heat a particular room as an instruction to turn up the Nest to call the boiler and a seperate instruction to open the TRV of the required room. Systems like Netamo, Tado and Evohome can address their own TRVs directly. Tado TRVs can be installed with a different thermostat, such as Nest, and will operate the TRVs on the assumption that the general call for heat is being supplied by the Nest, i.e, the Tado TRVs in this situation can't call the boiler, and the Tado app just opens and closes them. Again using IFTTT apps you can combine both.
CantGetNoSleep wrote: » I'm getting a new combo condensation boiler over the nexf few months so I'd like to install a smart thermostat while I'm doing that. At the moment I only have one zone, and with a combo boiler you don't need hot water automation. I'm thinking Nest as I already have Google Home in every room and Chromecast / Chromecast Audio. Is Nest the best option for this or should I look at something else? Also, is there any difference in models of each device in different European countries?
deezell wrote: » According to tado you can have multiple zones. An extra stat can be added to the starter kit and as this has it's own relay I don't see how it can't control the switching of one zone, while a second main stat and extension kit covers the other zone plus HW. Another poster enquired about TRVs within a zoned system. His query related to the fact that TRVs can call the boiler via the stat, but with two stats he needed the TRVs in each zone to call the appropriate stat. Tado were able to push this setting to his stats, so zones are not a problem, afaik. This was a few posts back. With nest you need two stats, each comes with a relay box, on one of these the HW relay will be used, the other just the heating relay. Netamo functionality is similar to tado. Just checked back there, yours is the system with the three mechanical timers and the pumped manifold to blend two boilers. Do you have wall stats associated with each heating zone and a cylinder stat for the HW or is it all done by timer?. No reason this can't be automated. The three smart stat contacts/relay outputs for the 3 zones simply replace the outputs of the timers. The wiring centre shows these connections going into it to each one's switch relay which calls the pump for the appropriate zone and fires the boiler. I'll read back when I've a chance 're the app, I think it was just the IFTTT app, but used in conjunction with Google home. Apple home kit also can address both Nest and any IFTTT TRVs. There are some readers here who are in to this, perhaps they might respond
john_doe. wrote: » Thanks I actually thought I had two zones + hot water. There is a thread here also which contradicts some info I've seen on Tado.https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057815654/1/#post105692284 For the nest what are the apps that combine the TrVs with Nest and what TRVs are people using with Nest I was reading about some of the Danfoss stuff with zwave but not sure how in use it is.
deezell wrote: » You only have 1 zone, so no worries. Tado can have multiple zones. Each stat or TRV can be a zone, the extension kit ( relay box) adds a HW zone in addition to wireless connection of the stat. If you're with electric ireland I'd recommend Nest. It's only 130 I think including install. If you get heating/HW motorised valve plumbed in it will control HW independent of heating, but you could add this later. If you want to go TRVs later, there are apps which can combine Nest control with trv control. Tado TRVs can be added and controlled by IFTTT app alongside a Nest stat, go back in the thread to see a post about it. Tado V3 gateway can be addressed directly by 3rd party apps if d'internet went down.
john_doe. wrote: » @deezell I was wondering what you think is the best system on market now. I like the Tado but there seems to be a couple of things - it seems to involve handling controll to a web based system. So if Internet is down in guessing there is a problem. Also very different to find installers and there is a post here which said they can't actually support 3 zones. Nest is missing the smart TRVs Honeywell seems to be good but very lacking in software updates.
deezell wrote: » Nest comes with the heatlink relay, this connects wirelessly to the nest. Tado and Netamo stats have optional relays to connect wirelessly to. Unlike nest the stats have a relay built in so they can directly replace wired stats, but yours is wireless back to the eph timer so you will need the relay. It can be wired in the same spot as the eph controller, or closer to the boiler if more convenient and tidy.
budhabob wrote: » The smart relay box you refer to above, does this come with the various options or is it an additional purchase? Nest below for example:https://www.ie.screwfix.com/nest-third-generation-smart-thermostat-hot-water-control.html
deezell wrote: » Replace the eph wireless stat with a smart stat. Replace the eph controller with the relay box of the smart stat. Mains and boiler control wires from the old controller go directly into the smart relay box. Nest or Tado or Netamo will suit, and give you all the control you want. Tado can automatically detect your approach home and turn the heat back up to at home setting.
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