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Munster V Leinster Build up Thread

[Deleted User]

Well lads, this should be a turnip for the boks.

Expect a fresh Munster to have too much at home for a primarily academy team venturing south. It's going to be wet too and with the prospect of muck the savages will undoubtedly be feeling confident.

Provided Munster can keep their coaching ticket in place until kick off I'd expect a dominant first half from the local(s) and with Leinsters bench comprising mostly of players we'd be willing to let move to Ulster, it's hard to see where the impact will come from.

Anyway, have at it lads and be nice, It's Christmas!

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irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

It's a poor argument. Sexton got concussed three minutes into his last match. It's illogical to say this wouldn't have happened in the match prior to an April fixture or that Healy wouldn't have brainfarted against Scarlets or Edinburgh

It’s not illogical to say that our 1st XV players pick up more injuries in high-intensity games. It’s abdolutely the case.

And we used to send the 1st XV down to Thomond, so it’s also evidenced by history.

Sexton wouldn’t have played the week before in the past. So you’re completely wrong here.

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Again, missing the point?

If you put this fixture the week after the European head-to-heads you’ll be missing big players every year, either enforced or with an eye on focusing on home games. This is the problem that has been created.

It's a poor argument. Sexton got concussed three minutes into his last match. It's illogical to say this wouldn't have happened in the match prior to an April fixture or that Healy wouldn't have brainfarted against Scarlets or Edinburgh

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

And he's not available for medical reasons so that point is moot.

Again, missing the point?

If you put this fixture the week after the European head-to-heads you’ll be missing big players every year, either enforced or with an eye on focusing on home games. This is the problem that has been created.

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But he’s not first choice

And he's not available for medical reasons so that point is moot.

irishbucsfan

durthacht wrote: »

In fairness, Byrne has played 13 of Leinster's 14 matches this season, and has almost twice as many senior appearances as Sexton had at the same age. It's safe to say he's very well established in the first team squad.

But he’s not first choice

durthacht

irishbucsfan wrote: »

...JGP and Byrne obviously miles off the standard of the starters...

In fairness, Byrne has played 13 of Leinster's 14 matches this season, and has almost twice as many senior appearances as Sexton had at the same age. It's safe to say he's very well established in the first team squad.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Well, personally I believe selecting a suspended Healy and Sexton on a RTTP would be poor judgement on behalf of the selectors. If we're going to play Fardy in every game how do we lord it over the AP and the Top14 and their slavedriver attitudes to their players?

Are we back to saying Ryan is not the Messiah and Larmour is not the Second Coming but McFadden is the hero we need? I can't keep up with all these twists and turns.

Leavy is surely a use it or lose it option. If he's not good enough for this kid of game he's going to up sticks and be a key player for another team. Not sure we want that.

The reason these guys aren’t available is because of where the game is scheduled. You’re confusing my complaints about the game being devalued by moving it with a complaint about selection policy.

And yes, I believe Ryan and Larmour are two of our best prospects in years. But that doesn’t mean I think they are 1st XV players.

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Jack McGrath is 2nd choice these days. Bent is potentially 3rd choice. James Ryan is obviously behind Fardy. JvDF is a clear starter. JGP and Byrne obviously miles off the standard of the starters. ROL a long way off Ringrose. Back 3 all changed from Europe.

So basically, almost the entire team.

It’s not a choice by Leinster really, very little else they could do. But no point denying it’s a weakened team and the Thomond fixture has suffered from being moved from April.

Well, personally I believe selecting a suspended Healy and Sexton on a RTTP would be poor judgement on behalf of the selectors. If we're going to play Fardy in every game how do we lord it over the AP and the Top14 and their slavedriver attitudes to their players?

Are we back to saying Ryan is not the Messiah and Larmour is not the Second Coming but McFadden is the hero we need? I can't keep up with all these twists and turns.

Leavy is surely a use it or lose it option. If he's not good enough for this kid of game he's going to up sticks and be a key player for another team. Not sure we want that.

[Deleted User]

.ak wrote: »

Sorry, sorry... I really need to learn to reign it in, especially after I heard POM prints off my posts and puts it up on the dressing room wall.

Apparently the Reggie Corrigan interview with POM is being replayed over and over again in Limerick this week...

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come off it .ak, no need to be bringing that kind of provincialism to the thread, we've all been getting along so well and you had to go too far as usual.

Sorry, sorry... I really need to learn to reign it in, especially after I heard POM prints off my posts and puts it up on the dressing room wall.

[Deleted User]

.ak wrote: »

A veritable who's who of failed Leinster/Ulster players, Munster turncoats, over-the-hills and southern hemisphere mercenaries.

A gazillion to nill, Leinster.

Ah come off it .ak, no need to be bringing that kind of provincialism to the thread, we've all been getting along so well and you had to go too far as usual.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster:
Andrew Conway; Darren Sweetnam, Sammy Arnold, Rory Scannell, Keith Earls; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Rhys Marshall, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Billy Holland; Peter O’Mahony (c), Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, James Cronin, John Ryan, Darren O’Shea, Jack O’Donoghue, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Simon Zebo.

A veritable who's who of failed Leinster/Ulster players, Munster turncoats, over-the-hills and southern hemisphere mercenaries.

A gazillion to nill, Leinster.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And you're both forgetting the obvious one, I remember reading that Toners day's in green were numbered back in 2012 so surely he has to be almost done at this stage.

Well he’s lucky to make this side, if the game was in April it’s be Fardy and Ryan, because Ryan is currently pencilled in to hit The Big Time (tm) during the Ireland England match in March

[Deleted User]

pickarooney wrote: »

Who exactly are the second string players in that team? Bent and possibly Murphy in the pack and Jordi is a seasoned international who should first choice next season.

JGP - clearly behind Luke McGrath but it's not like dropping Aaron Smith for Paul Marshall.

Lowe and Larmour - people have been jizzing themselves in anticipation of seeing these guys take the field.

Is Ringrose injured again? He's maybe the one surprise omission from me if not.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Jack McGrath is 2nd choice these days. Bent is potentially 3rd choice. James Ryan is obviously behind Fardy. JvDF is a clear starter. JGP and Byrne obviously miles off the standard of the starters. ROL a long way off Ringrose. Back 3 all changed from Europe.

So basically, almost the entire team.

It’s not a choice by Leinster really, very little else they could do. But no point denying it’s a weakened team and the Thomond fixture has suffered from being moved from April.

And you're both forgetting the obvious one, I remember reading that Toners day's in green were numbered back in 2012 so surely he has to be almost done at this stage.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Who exactly are the second string players in that team? Bent and possibly Murphy in the pack and Jordi is a seasoned international who should first choice next season.

JGP - clearly behind Luke McGrath but it's not like dropping Aaron Smith for Paul Marshall.

Lowe and Larmour - people have been jizzing themselves in anticipation of seeing these guys take the field.

Is Ringrose injured again? He's maybe the one surprise omission from me if not.

Jack McGrath is 2nd choice these days. Bent is potentially 3rd choice. James Ryan is obviously behind Fardy. JvDF is a clear starter. JGP and Byrne obviously miles off the standard of the starters. ROL a long way off Ringrose. Back 3 all changed from Europe.

So basically, almost the entire team.

It’s not a choice by Leinster really, very little else they could do. But no point denying it’s a weakened team and the Thomond fixture has suffered from being moved from April.

pickarooney

Who exactly are the second string players in that team? Bent and possibly Murphy in the pack and Jordi is a seasoned international who should first choice next season.

JGP - clearly behind Luke McGrath but it's not like dropping Aaron Smith for Paul Marshall.

Lowe and Larmour - people have been jizzing themselves in anticipation of seeing these guys take the field.

Is Ringrose injured again? He's maybe the one surprise omission from me if not.

Tim Robbins

Serbian wrote: »

It’s frustrating that this fixture has become a bit of a farce for the second season in a row. This used to be a game that was fiercely contested between two good teams, but Leinster have decided to send mostly second and third+ choice players this time around again.

You can’t really blame them, the divisions in the Pro14 are largely already decided, realistically there’s very little for either team to play for at this point.

I’d expect Leinster will be competitive but comfortable win is on the cards for Munster again here.

Reality is there is very little difference between the top 30 players in Leinster and top 25 in Munster. The difference between this fixture is that it is "want to win" rather than "must win". That means if Larmour who could be the best full back Ireland ever has had in time to come - who knows, makes a mistake in this match, it is not the end of the world. Whereas the most experienced player Kearney is less likely to make a mistake in a tight game, so he is better suited to the "must win" game.

At the same time, if you don't give the likes of Larmour a better test than Zebre you will never know how good he really is. Again, what happens if we have our top two 15's injured in the last game of the VI nations and Larmour plays the 15 for a Grand Slam game.

Is it better that he has experience playing in Thomond park in a Derby match or just Zebre?

[Deleted User]

This disrespect stuff is such a load of entitled nonsense. Munster will send second string sides off to play whoever when it suits them as well.

Having said that I'm a bit disappointed by the Leinster selection, Leinster have won a number of times down in Thomond in the recent past but you're not going to do it with a team like that.

[Deleted User]

Absolutely disgusted by what I've seen in this thread. The accusations against Odo and the 'nicest person alive'TM are completely unreasonable.

Honestly, people saying that Leinster are about to get a lesson are completely correct. That's why we've sent the kids, so they can learn from the best.

The severe hiding they are about to get is secondary. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up losing 44 - 16 (too soon?) but I'd be happy enough with that if the lads learned to negotiate these kinds of encounters without selling themselves short.

I'd like to see some of our young bucks pick up a few tricks from experienced operators like Stander and O'Mahony. These guys could negotiate a win out of less air than you could fly a kite with.

I always feel like our guys leave too much out on the pitch, and need to hold a bit back for serious encounters against big spending clubs like Montpelier.

These young lads need a solid performance if they ever want to make the big bucks. No point going out there unless they are ready to gamble their future for a serious pay out.

Good day of entertainment on Tuesday though, first the Munster v Leinster match and then the RTE Sports Agent of the year awards straight after. The holiday season really is great.

shootermacg

thomond2006 wrote: »

All fair points. Ultimately though Munster are charging European game prices for this and there would be backlash if a weakened side was sent out.

If anything the person who needs a rest is Holland. He's started every game this season.

On LH, Brian Scott got a decent runout last week and with the long turnaround I think we're ok to go with Kilcoyne again. Cronin and John Ryan will start in Belfast.

I totally agree about Holland, he's a victim of that wolverine blood, one of the most under rated players in Irish rugby. But given our lack of options at second row I'd see him as a huge leader. Copeland can play second row and does relatively OK there when I've seen him, we are really missing a player like Dave o'Callaghan who plays well at 6 / 5.

I suppose the Munster coaching staff want to see how our full lineout goes against Toner.

thomond2006

shootermacg wrote: »

Well, we really cannot afford injuries, so why play our first choice front row. John Ryan needs some game time under his belt, why risk Marshall or Killer?

Likewise we'll be sick if CJ or PoM picks up an injury. Kleyn should be wrapped in cotton wool for Europe, until he proves to be more durable.

Copeland and JoD are OK to start against this team IMO.

All fair points. Ultimately though Munster are charging European game prices for this and there would be backlash if a weakened side was sent out. If anything the person who needs a rest is Billy Holland. He's started every game this season and been an iron man when Munster desperately needed it.

On LH, Brian Scott got a decent runout last week and with the long turnaround I think we're ok to go with Kilcoyne again. Cronin and John Ryan will start in Belfast. Marshall is cleared from concussion so I don't see the issue starting him.

shootermacg

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't think it's a good look to rest too many for a home interpro vs Leinster.

Well, we really cannot afford injuries, so why play our first choice front row. John Ryan needs some game time under his belt, why risk Marshall or Killer?

Likewise we'll be sick if CJ or PoM picks up an injury. Kleyn should be wrapped in cotton wool for Europe, until he proves to be more durable.

Copeland and JoD are OK to start against this team IMO.

thomond2006

shootermacg wrote: »

Given the team that Leinster are fielding, I'd have rested / benched CJ, PoM, Kleyn, Archer, Marshall, (if possible)Killer. Given the amount of injuries Munster has had, I would say our second string is now a better team that Leinster's.

I don't think it's a good look to rest too many for a home interpro vs Leinster.

shootermacg

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster:
Andrew Conway; Darren Sweetnam, Sammy Arnold, Rory Scannell, Keith Earls; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Rhys Marshall, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Billy Holland; Peter O’Mahony (c), Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, James Cronin, John Ryan, Darren O’Shea, Jack O’Donoghue, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Simon Zebo.

Tough on Alex Wootton to miss out but it shows the depth Munster have in the back 3. Kevin O'Byrne is also unlucky. We may have a battle for the hooker jersey between Marshall and Scannell over the next few games.

Given the team that Leinster are fielding, I'd have rested / benched CJ, PoM, Kleyn, Archer, Marshall, (if possible)Killer. Given the amount of injuries Munster has had, I would say our second string is now a better team that Leinster's.

thomond2006

Munster:
Andrew Conway; Darren Sweetnam, Sammy Arnold, Rory Scannell, Keith Earls; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Rhys Marshall, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Billy Holland; Peter O’Mahony (c), Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, James Cronin, John Ryan, Darren O’Shea, Jack O’Donoghue, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Simon Zebo.

Tough on Alex Wootton to miss out but it shows the depth Munster have in the back 3. Kevin O'Byrne is also unlucky. We may have a battle for the hooker jersey between Marshall and Scannell over the next few games.

Jump_In_Jack

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Noone is saying they're rubbish, they're just stating the facts.

Use "nobody" or "no one"
Noone is a surname

Former Former

shootermacg wrote: »

How long have you been visiting the match threads now FF? Lets just put it this way... The first rule of MatchThreadClub is, you pile on the bile and then they pile on the bile and soon you have a nice cesspit of bile built up. Take the Frannoesque opener, it's a concentration of the first rule of MatchThreadClub.

You're dead right.

In fact, we could pick the same XV, only invert it so that Jordan Larmour was playing loosehead and Michael Bent at outside centre, and we'd still wipe the floor with yiz.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

I guess the question is why should Munster v Leinster be a sacred cow and the other interpros be treated as lesser fixtures?

Because that's basically what this whole thing boils down to.

You're right, it shouldn't be in an ideal world, and all the interpros should be played at a time when full sides can be put out (or at least 4 of them on the weekends leading into Europe). But at the very least we could get back to where we were.

MugMugs

Former Former wrote: »

It's just we might as well be complaining that it's cold and wet in December. It's just the way of it.

Quite mild actually :pac:

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Maybe if it had gone from being warm and balmy a few years ago to being cold and wet in December due to a decision by Met Eireann, and if that was the case I'd probably complain about it as well.

I guess the question is why should Munster v Leinster be a sacred cow and the other interpros be treated as lesser fixtures?

Because that's basically what this whole thing boils down to.