seamus wrote: » I think that's unfair. There's no statement they can make to change anything or make anything better. They're not to blame for what happened. Attending the inquest could be seen as insensitive. Yes, they could show support for Clodagh's family, but you don't know what's been going on since, contact may have been rejected, or they may have been asked to stay away and did so out of respect. They sent their solicitor in their place which indicates to me that it's not a case of "not bothered" to show up, but they reasoned that it would not be appropriate for them to appear in person. The language of their statement is very telling. It mourns their "beloved" grandchildren and daughter-in-law first, and then just refers to "our son" without emotion or adjective. Carefully drafted it may be, but it says to me that they understand who the victims are in this case and aren't looking for pity for their son.
dok_golf wrote: » There seem to be an awful lot of people who are obviously more qualified then myself, someone who suffered/still at times suffers from severe depression, that have decided that Alan Hawe was evil personified. Maybe he was, but none of us know definitively what happened or what was his state of mind. For the person who said he used the word "I" a lot in the suicide note, that's what depression does. It makes you isolated, insular and depending on the severity, that "everyone is against me". In my opinion, ( and I am no expert, just someone who has suffered episodes of psychosis) there is no way that the actions of Alan Hawe were those of a sane person. It would not surprise me if something happened that put him over the edge. Professor Patricia Casey said this morning that , in her opinion, this was a psychotic episode. Alan Hawe's GP said he didn't show any symptoms of depression. Well, neither did I. Only those in my immediate family ( my wife) could see that something was wrong. I, for one, am not qualified to either pronounce him insane nor evil. I just know, from my own experience that I lean towards mental illness ( or maybe I won't allow myself to believe that such evil exists) and I think "there goes me only for the grace of god".
demfad wrote: » This is what they mean when studies into family annihilation state that some killers experience forms of depression to do with resistance from the targets of the control and worry about maintaining the control. Hawe's worry here is clearly associated with some 'sexual' matter about to be revealed which will both destroy his sense of masculinity as a pillar of the community and as a family man. It will also cause him to lose control over that which he is controlling. His worry is all about himself as you pointed out. Rather than a sick man progressing to a psychotic episode Hawe was something else. His worldview was all concerned with his view of masculinity. The main lay person in the parish, the treasurer of the GAA club, the vice principle and the firm head of his household. When this was threatened his brooding resurfaced and when it was certain to be destroyed he decided to destroy all that he owned. Clodagh was going to leave him. Who was he to decide if she would be better off dead than without him and with his 'secret'? His view of masculinity and family ownership meant he believed he was judge and jury over whether his family lived or died.
BinLiner2 wrote: » I've been there as a brother of a murder-suicide victim so I tend to have a cold hard view of these matters. "Deaths dark door" is the sort of flowery warped language i have disdain for
Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: » Excellent post. Some people seem to be really enjoying demonising Alan Hawe with absolutely no clear idea of what happened.He is dead, but his parents aren't. They've already suffered unimaginably and this kind of speculation can't be helping. I saw someone post earlier that they hoped 'he's roaring, mental illness or not'. The same poster had said earlier that they will be 'hugging their family tighter tonight'. What if one of those family members develops a mental illness and has a psychotic episode? Will they hope that family member 'is roaring' as well?
dense wrote: » bobsman wrote: » I struggle with the premeditated aspect of the murders. He meticulously cut the windpipes of his victims so they couldn't cry out. He sorted his financial and other various matters, which is not an easy task. It requires planning and time. He was obviously having some mental issues but I cannot fathom how a GP who knew him for years did not have some inkling. I agree with you on the nature of the murders it is barbaric. Were the journalists over egging the rest: What matters financial and otherwise did he actually sort out? Did he pay off loans or something? Was there anything to do with wills? Doubtful.
bobsman wrote: » I struggle with the premeditated aspect of the murders. He meticulously cut the windpipes of his victims so they couldn't cry out. He sorted his financial and other various matters, which is not an easy task. It requires planning and time. He was obviously having some mental issues but I cannot fathom how a GP who knew him for years did not have some inkling.
demfad wrote: » ..... Clodagh was going to leave him. Who was he to decide if she would be better off dead than without him and with his 'secret'? His view of masculinity and family ownership meant he believed he was judge and jury over whether his family lived or died.
Lackey wrote: » He transferred all monies into his personal account which left his family sole beneficiary He laid out all financial documents on the kitchen table He did this after he had murdered them. Not to mention planning of the murders, including clearing his path of attack of furniture, and his meticulous actions regarding his estate between murdering Clodagh and her children and his suicide
BinLiner2 wrote: » "Deaths dark door" is the sort of flowery warped language i have disdain for
dense wrote: » There's also a strong belief in the afterlife evident from the "wishing he rots in hell" brigade The religious are out in force.
LCD wrote: » Not sure if can say this. I`ve family living in the area. Rumors that he had, & was being investigated again, in relation to long standing unsolved crimes (not relating to his family or career). Hence the fall from grace. Again these are just rumors I heard 2nd hand.
demfad wrote: » Clodagh was going to leave him. Who was he to decide if she would be better off dead than without him and with his 'secret'? His view of masculinity and family ownership meant he believed he was judge and jury over whether his family lived or died.
demfad wrote: » The difference is that Clodagh's family have stated that he was an abusive manipulative and controlling man over many years.
Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: » I'm religious and I would never ever wish that Alan Hawe was 'rotting in Hell'. I don't think it's fair to generalise like that.
kunst nugget wrote: » Even though you keep saying this, we don't know if this is true. He feared the breakdown of his marriage - this could be linked to the 'fall from grace' that has been discussed and Clodagh might have been completely clueless about it at the time. The last searches on their computer seemed to have been Clodagh looking at family holidays which would seem strange for a woman getting ready to leave her husband.
Again, you keep saying this, citing an anonymous source but as has been said several times already, none of her family seemed to think he was an abusive man before the murders. The mother's initial reaction to seeing the cars still parked in the car was carbon monoxide poisoning - would you think that would have been her initial reaction if she thought of Alan Hawe as an abuser.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » I think what I wrote has gone over your head. Here, consider this.https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103471215&postcount=179
PeterParker957 wrote: » I'm religious and hope that's exactly where he is and I truly hope he is suffering.
demfad wrote: » His family said this (not me) so we know it's likely true. A relation also spoke of her being 'sick' of her life with him. The counsellor revealed he was also going to marriage counselling. A family holiday does not necessarily have to include the father does it? In any event, Hawe knew the marriage (troubles as it was) would be over when his fall from grace was revealed. Either way Clodagh was going to leave him. Domestic abuse/violence is usually hidden. The abuser isolates the victim. The mother stated it wasn't physical, that it was hidden. In an article today she stated that Hawe allowed them to see a false persona but not his true self. She did not think he was an abuser at the time. After the family member posted the story the entire family rapidly changed their view. I don't know for sure but I would surmise that this persons contribution was significant and caused them to look at Hawe's actions over the years in a different light. If you feel that family members of domestic abuse victims automatically know when someone is being abused then you don't understand it. The abuser gains the family's trust and then can successfully isolate her and ratchet up/keep it hidden. House devil/street angel etc.
Tazium wrote: » This is a story that has provoked emotion and hatred, united and divided a community and fortunately/unfortunately we'll never really understand the wall Mr. Hawe faced that led him to the multiple murders of Clodagh, Liam, Niall and Ryan.
I get shivers thinking about the fact that he would have had to restrain each family member as they would inevitably struggle to react.
This was a horrific act, carried out by a disturbed individual and has lasting consequences for both families. Was it telling that his parents didn't attend the inquest? I wonder if Cloadagh's family have reconciled with his family over their shared grief of if there is some lingering blame.
If there was something you could say to Alan Hawe prior to taking these action, what would it be? I think I'd start with, "let's talk".
Stuckforcash wrote: » Can you post a source about him being abusive? I'd be interested in reading it. Thanks.
kunst nugget wrote: » They'll post the same anonymous source article that they've posted several times already, just go back a couple of pages.
