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Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

gimmick

So this is a thread for your musings which do not deserve an entire thread of its own.

For example

I just watched Card Subject To Change. Horrific to think that since its been made the following has happened -

Kamala has become an amputee

Sensational Sherrie, Paul Bearer and Trent Acid are dead

Had Kevin Sullivan and Nancy stayed together one of Wrestlings darkest moments would be completely different or never would have happened.

Lacey Von Erich almost became a diva. She is also crazy hot. Pure nom.

I also mused that even while Sherri was a dispicable heel while she was on tv she may well have been my first celeb crush.

All this in one lazy evening.

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leggo

No, it is relevant, because the fact that they are successful means that people are paying to see it, therefore it's what the majority of people want. If Star Wars did what you said and it was unanimously agreed as awful, a lot of people wouldn't go back (there's precedent: like when they over-saturated the market with books that were overly-contrived and stopped selling) and they would have to reboot based around what the market wants.

Your personal disappointment or opinion isn't irrelevant, but when you try to frame it as a 'problem' to validate it that it becomes a contentious point. That's just arrogance, implying "my personal taste is all that matters regardless of all contrary evidence." It's their job to earn as much money as possible to support their families, like any of us with our own jobs. I don't personally worry about my effect on my industry as a whole during my day-to-day work, do you? Yet we hold wrestlers to this high regard when, in reality, even the perpetuators of these opinions (like Cornette) are just playing the game too and maximising their own income by supplying unique content (in the form of rants against popular wrestlers nobody else is ranting about, for example) that is consistent with the public persona they portray. Eamonn Dunphy made a career out of it criticising the most successful international side we ever had and calling Cristiano Ronaldo a clown, Katie Hopkins does the same today feeding the significant prejudiced, alt-right segment of society with material we don't get elsewhere in the mainstream. So even Cornette is guilty of his own crime, just by different means. They do stupid dropkick spots, he does stupid rants, they bicker on Twitter then all of them go to bed having fed their families for another day and contributed to the other's wealth because their feud is mutually beneficial to both sides of the market. Even if it's organic, it's still all a work brother.

So if you frame your opinion as some kind of grand comment on the industry as a whole, you're going to have people argue because there's very clear evidence against it. It'd be more like if I said Star Wars wasn't a successful movie franchise because I personally didn't like it...I'd get eaten alive because it's a dumb conclusion based off my own biases. If you frame your opinion as personal distaste, it's totally valid and your argument is stronger as a result. Case in point: one thing I'm absolutely not trying to do is tell you you're wrong for disliking it. I'm not even a huge fan of it myself, but even if I was and we disagreed then I'd fight for your right to dislike it, if that was the point you were making and people were ganging up on you as a result. I feel like I'm constantly explaining this same point.

A Brad Maddox Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Imagine if in one of the scenes during the new Star Wars movie, Daisy Ridley and one of her co-stars just started looking at the camera and goofing around and stuff, taking themselves out of the story in other words, and then when fans complained afterwards that they weren't taking the role seriously, they just shrugged their shoulders and said "hey it's all fake and sh*t. Jedis aren't real. Who cares?" They would be panned by the public and rightly so.

It's not that the people who watch the film are fantasists who think Jedis are real, it's that they want to be able to suspend their disbelief to enjoy the story. And they don't want the performers to ruin the magic by drumming it into their heads that what they are seeing is not real.

Woah woah woah... Jedis are real, there's 2000 of them in Ireland alone!! :pac:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/examviral/census-reaction-people-are-delighted-to-find-out-that-ireland-has-2000-jedi-knights-784801.html

(FWIW I think that Bucks video is stupid and the response of essentially "it's made them money" doesn't do as an argument against its stupidity. Sure people can like what they like, I enjoyed the Bucks schtick when I saw them at OTT, but stuff like that is verging on Gaiety Theatre panto rather than pro wrestling panto so I can certainly understand why many wrestling fans look down on it or get embarrassed by it. Although I assume I would laugh along with it if I were in the audience.)

Itssoeasy

DM_7 wrote: »

Nothing special going on in that video from a generational POV. Would see flips in World of Sport back in the day. Or more recent, do we really think Owen Hart and co wouldn't be able to do that?

I'm not talking about flips. I mean Verne gagne was doing a headscissors in the 1950s, and that was probably seen as flashy but it looked real. The lads in the video don't even connect on the dropkicks. I mean at least make it look like you've dropkicked someone.

J. Marston

Never really understood fans using the money excuse. Comes off a little as trying to be insider/above it all.

Think we should be looking at it from an entertainment/critical standpoint not an accountant's view.

Mr.Nice Guy

Imagine if in one of the scenes during the new Star Wars movie, Daisy Ridley and one of her co-stars just started looking at the camera and goofing around and stuff, taking themselves out of the story in other words, and then when fans complained afterwards that they weren't taking the role seriously, they just shrugged their shoulders and said "hey it's all fake and sh*t. Jedis aren't real. Who cares?" They would be panned by the public and rightly so.

It's not that the people who watch the film are fantasists who think Jedis are real, it's that they want to be able to suspend their disbelief to enjoy the story. And they don't want the performers to ruin the magic by drumming it into their heads that what they are seeing is not real.

Mr.Nice Guy

leggo wrote: »

Well it's a job, so making money is (and should be) the entire objective.

"I don't like what Simon Cowell has done to the music industry. I believe his influence has overall been harmful."

"But he makes a lot of money."

Not really relevant to the point, is it?

DM_7

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The ROH video involving the young bucks is a shame to see. It's clear as day that today's wrestler is way more athletic than previous generations. And that is shown in the video, and even Jim cornette has admitted that they are amazing athletes but it's not wrestling. I just added that point to dispel the myth that Jim cornette hates all modern wrestling, he doesn't he dislikes stuff that makes wrestling look stupid.

Nothing special going on in that video from a generational POV. Would see flips in World of Sport back in the day. Or more recent, do we really think Owen Hart and co wouldn't be able to do that?

[Deleted User]

Said this before a lot of what we watch isn't 'wrestling'. Strowman getting thrown into a garbage truck, Shane O Mac jumping off structures, Undertaker being dead and all.

Itssoeasy

The ROH video involving the young bucks is a shame to see. It's clear as day that today's wrestler is way more athletic than previous generations. And that is shown in the video, and even Jim cornette has admitted that they are amazing athletes but it's not wrestling. I just added that point to dispel the myth that Jim cornette hates all modern wrestling, he doesn't he dislikes stuff that makes wrestling look stupid.

leggo

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not sure what them making money has to do with anything.

A lot of people think what Simon Cowell and his ilk pump out every Christmas is trash and bad for the music industry. To point out that Cowell and co. are laughing all the way to the bank - which of course they are - doesn't counter that.

Well it's a job, so making money is (and should be) the entire objective.

J. Marston

"But they sell t-shirts" is a kind of a crap defence.

Shít wrestling is shít wrestling.

Mr.Nice Guy

Lithium93_ wrote: »

And Matt Jackson shot back at Sherman with an excellent burn

Like Coulson said above, the Bucks will sell more t-shirts, and laugh all about it. They generate attention/get people talking.

Not sure what them making money has to do with anything.

A lot of people think what Simon Cowell and his ilk pump out every Christmas is trash and bad for the music industry. To point out that Cowell and co. are laughing all the way to the bank - which of course they are - doesn't counter that.

Lithium93_

Omackeral wrote: »

Just because on the Bucks stuff posted above. It's actually class when you're there in person. It's such cool athleticism and the whole arena gets on board and loses their minds at it. If it's just for the people there live that paid to see them, I wouldn't have much of an issue.

If it's people buying PPVs complaining, then they're entitled to have a go at it.

If it's people streaming it illegally or just commenting on a twitter video they saw a couple days later, screw them.

But, but it's embarrassing for the business don't you know.**

**Typed with heavily sarcasm**

Lithium93_

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I hate crappy spots like that. Embarrassing for the business. It may play well with a certain niche demographic but the mainstream looks at that with disdain and I don't blame them. Cormier wasn't the only UFC guy to rip on it.

https://twitter.com/ChaseShermanUFC/status/942485757037563906

And Matt Jackson shot back at Sherman with an excellent burn

Like Coulson said above, the Bucks will sell more t-shirts, and laugh all about it. They generate attention/get people talking.

Loughc

Pentecost wrote: »

When was the last time they did a through the foreign announce table spot actually? Used to be a WWE tradition that the poor Spanish language announcers would have to scarper.

Sunday? Did Kevin Owens not frog splash someone through the foreign announce table it was that just the regular smack down one?

Pentecost

Angron wrote: »

Yeah, according to wikipedia WWE stopped producing shows in French in 2002, so I guess he had no reason to hang around. Still, nice that he got a job again when they started doing more languages.

When was the last time they did a through the foreign announce table spot actually? Used to be a WWE tradition that the poor Spanish language announcers would have to scarper.

[Deleted User]

Just because on the Bucks stuff posted above. It's actually class when you're there in person. It's such cool athleticism and the whole arena gets on board and loses their minds at it. If it's just for the people there live that paid to see them, I wouldn't have much of an issue.

If it's people buying PPVs complaining, then they're entitled to have a go at it.

If it's people streaming it illegally or just commenting on a twitter video they saw a couple days later, screw them.

Blue_Dabadee

I think RAW 15th anniversary still remains as one of the best "special" episodes of RAW. They brought back people for that episode that you would not expect such as Sunny, The Goon, Skinner, Bart Gunn, etc.

leggo

ERG89 wrote: »

They mentioned Roman was now a grand slam winner (granted the world's reaction was overall apathetic). They gave him the belt just so they could claim that as it doesn't really make sense in him winning a mid card title even when Raw's world champ doesn't show up every week the IC title hasnt been allowed to mean anything in a long time. Probably was before they scrapped it temporarily in 2002.
Then they did a story on their website on previous grand slam winners which didn't list JBL who took time to mention it on twitter. It's not a fan only thing tbh; companies are as petty for records as fans are.

Yeah but that's the marketing, WWE's job is to make as big a deal out of everything in their product that they can. So someone doing something notable like that is gonna get mentions on commentary and their website. But the practical reality of it is that they're putting the belt on a main event guy likely because their main champion isn't there so it means they can have big title match main events at house shows (and Miz was taking time off so they didn't want to have two absent champions). See? Fans put significance into something but the booking reality of it is really boring.

Angron

Yeah, according to wikipedia WWE stopped producing shows in French in 2002, so I guess he had no reason to hang around. Still, nice that he got a job again when they started doing more languages.

LeeJM

Angron wrote: »

Not in WWE. I looked it up, he only returned to WWE to do commentary in May of this year, having left in 2002.

Really? I could have sworn he has been there the entire time.

Angron

LeeJM wrote: »

Hes been doing the French commentary since the mid to late 90s

Not in WWE for a long time. I looked it up, he only returned to WWE to do commentary in May of this year, having left in 2002.

LeeJM

Hes been doing the French commentary since the mid to late 90s

Angron

It only dawned on me last night as I was watching the PPV that the Ray Rougeau on the French commentary team is the same Raymond Rougeau from the Fabulous Rougeaus. I guess I usually just zone out while they run through the teams, but last night when it got to the French team I just sort of went "...hang on a sec."

chatticusfinch

It breaks the illusion of the match for me somewhat. Chain wrestling can be a lot of fun when it makes sense with the counters, doing needless spots just for the cheap pops kills the rhythm of the match. That dropkick flippy spot sucked,and did nothing to make me want to watch a Bucks match.

sky88

I dont like those kind of spots as i just dont think it makes sense but crowds seem to enjoy it and i guess thats why its happening so much now

Mr.Nice Guy

I hate crappy spots like that. Embarrassing for the business. It may play well with a certain niche demographic but the mainstream looks at that with disdain and I don't blame them. Cormier wasn't the only UFC guy to rip on it.

https://twitter.com/ChaseShermanUFC/status/942485757037563906

DM_7

It is awful ****e

BUT

It is what a lot of the people there at that event are happy to see in that match. It is almost house show stuff, you know fun. It was a 6 man tag, at ROH in 2017, not a last man standing match at Wrestlemania or the main event of Wrestlekingdom.

This is not the ROH era of Joe v Punk or Danielson v McGuinness. Not with talent shares from NOAH, AJ styles making a name for himself. Dalton Castle v Cody Rhodes was for the ROH title on same show, it is a very differant ROH idea these days and they should cater to what their fans want today.

Even if some of it looks awful, worse when presented in a gif, with no context.

Agent Coulson

The Bucks will sell a few more tshirts on the back of that tweet and have a good laugh.

J. Marston

Daniel Cormier shítting on the Young Bucks...

https://twitter.com/dc_mma/status/942420416185978880

The sequence in question...

https://twitter.com/briantheguppie/status/942054673451835392

Well said, Cormier. Different styles are cool and all but that was some trash.

2007 levels of Divas "Are you ready?" spots.