Big Bag of Chips wrote: » Roger Hassenforder wrote: » A large group of work colleagues, some friendly with some more than others, some relative strangers. It had split into little groups. She wasnt part of my immediate work circle/group. Yet, you say.. Roger Hassenforder wrote: » Anyway, while we were minding her and formulating a plan to get her home, So at the time she was removed from the premises by the bouncers there was at least a few of you ("we were minding her"). So she was never dumped outside and left alone? Or if she was it was because all her work colleagues decided to stay on after the bouncers had removed her, and absolved themselves of any duty of care to their colleague? Or, at least some of you went outside with her, and she was never left on her own at all? I do get what you mean, but where does duty of care start/stop? This girl was never on her own, so the bouncers removed her and left it to her friends to organise getting her home. I'd think if bouncers and pubs took it upon themselves to babysit everyone who drank too much on a night out then they could be accused of enabling problem drinkers. Should night clubs become B&Bs too? To allow those a little worse for wear to sober up? Should taxi drivers be called and the responsibility handed to them to get these people home safely? I don't think there's an easy answer. But in the situation we are talking about, the girl was in a group. A group who were aware she needed to get home. The bouncers took her off the premises, and I assume the friends then organised to get her home?
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » A large group of work colleagues, some friendly with some more than others, some relative strangers. It had split into little groups. She wasnt part of my immediate work circle/group.
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » Anyway, while we were minding her and formulating a plan to get her home,
Big Bag of Chips wrote: » Ok, so say the club has a responsibility to a very drunk person? What is that responsibility? Not let them get very drunk? (So limit everyone's drink consumption because it would be impossible/discriminatory to pick and choose?) Call the guards? Call an ambulance? Call a taxi? Call their mammy? Let them sit it out to sober up? What if a person shows up at a club door too pissed/out of it to stand properly? What is their responsibility there? Call the guards? Ambulance? Mammy? Let them in to snooze it off? And where does that stop? Do you let people know they can go out, get off their face and someone else will take responsibility for them and facilitate their carry on? A&Es all over the country are filled every weekend with 'regulars' who drink too much, fall over and ring an ambulance to come get them.
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » There was no way id expect a taxi driver to take her in her condition. Maybe a few minutes in a quiet place with a coffee before fcuking her out might have not have been an unrealistic expectation.
Big Bag of Chips wrote: » Roger Hassenforder wrote: » There was no way id expect a taxi driver to take her in her condition. Maybe a few minutes in a quiet place with a coffee before fcuking her out might have not have been an unrealistic expectation. If she was as bad as you say, a few minutes and a coffee wasn't going to make much difference to her.
Big Bag of Chips wrote: » So did any of you call an ambulance for her? Actually, what did happen her in the end?
Big Bag of Chips wrote: » And what would you have liked the club to do? Are you going to approach them with a complaint/suggestion?
dxhound2005 wrote: » He already made this helpful suggestion:There was no way id expect a taxi driver to take her in her condition. Maybe a few minutes in a quiet place with a coffee before fcuking her out might have not have been an unrealistic expectation.
Big Bag of Chips wrote: » Fair enough, but there's a chance the bouncer/owner isn't reading this thread. So maybe they could bring that suggestion to them?
FTA69 wrote: » Sometimes you're screwed no matter what you do. I've often been left dealing with someone smashed out of her face at the end of the night totally out of it and trying to do the right thing. One time after service had stopped I found a woman passed out in the cubicle of the men's jacks covered in her own sick and p*ss. After informing her brother and her party of her situation your man went mental at me accusing me of potentially abusing her. So at 2.45am when I'm knackered after a shift I then have to sit there and humour some pompous c*nt about how it isn't my fault she got twisted. Other times I would find a woman slumped outside or near the vicinity, have to take her phone out of her bag and call the last dialled numbers to locate her friends (often phones would be unlocked) As a last resort I'd look up "home" and call her father to pick her up. I once waited until 3.40am with a blacked out girl and a female colleague only to be accosted by the woman's father about the state she was in. (Totally my fault of course). Not so much as a f*cking thanks. The reality is that a substantial portion of the Irish population cannot handle their drink, become nasty and boorish when on it and have a massive sense of self-entitlement and take no responsibility at all for their actions preferring instead to blame bouncers or whoever else. Businesses do have a duty of care, but let's be honest - it's far easier to not get f*cked up in the first place and have some common sense and behave like an adult. And as for "my drink was spiked", total rubbish. If I'd a pound for every time I heard that. I usually ended up wondering to myself "which one of the seven double vodkas was the drug in?"
leggo wrote: » dxhound2005 wrote: » He already made this helpful suggestion:There was no way id expect a taxi driver to take her in her condition. Maybe a few minutes in a quiet place with a coffee before fcuking her out might have not have been an unrealistic expectation. Impractical. Where would you put up these drunks? (You're looking at around 20-30 per night on an average Saturday in an average nightclub) Do you take them into a staff area against their will? That's imprisonment, even when security detain someone who's committed a crime they have to recite Miranda rights and inform them fully of what's going on. You could get sued €10-20,000 per person if they decided to (drunks don't necessarily see the bigger picture), the cases wouldn't even go to court before settlement was offered. Do you take them away from their friends? Or do you bring a gang of 10-15 drunk people per drunk into a small office with them? What about the coffee? That's 20-30 cups per night, now we're looking at having to allocate a budget towards this. I could go on if you like... None of this makes any sense when you put the slightest bit of thought and industry knowledge into it. To do what you're suggesting, we'd need to re-write several articles of Irish law to even begin to make it practical. And over what? Because one person might have got carried out and left on kegs in Cork once and wasn't hurt or affected in any way, but it looked a bit insensitive?
Yamileth Sticky Romance wrote: » A few subjects I rarely spend too much time on here, cyclists, bouncers, Israel and taxi drivers. I've no doubt your story has an element of truth, but I find it hard to believe your friend was lifted up and thrown onto some kegs, I think that part is a spoof. There ya go, my final say on the matter. Hope your friends hangover isn't too bad.
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » I can only take her at her word she thinks her drink was spiked, maybe its her way of coping with being mortified about being so wasted. (Id say it was the gat myself TBH. cf. OP). I agree with personal responsibility, its unfortunately all too often absent. We are always looking for someone to blame. Shes responsible for her condition. But if you allow, even facilitate someone becoming so wasted on your premises, i think youve some responsibility and cant abdicate it by just removing someone outside and leaving them to their fate. If she had been attacked/raped etc. would a court hold they failed in some duty of care i wonder.
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » Cant really disagree with anything there , shes responsible for her state. Its the actual removal itself, but chiefly the post removal abandonment thats leaving a sour taste. I doubt they knew she was with us. If a clubs staff did that to my daughter, it would be closed a few months for rebuilding. Youre correct also. I wont be back.
freshpopcorn wrote: » I don't think the OP is looking for the bouncers to babysit or look after their friend for the night but from being out in Cork in the past anybody who they wish to ejected from the premises are just pushed out the door and thrown to the ground.
minidazzler wrote: » No a court wouldn't. Her drink was unlikely to have been spiked, particularly in the bar you're on about which has one of the strictest door codes in Cork. People don't just randomly give away free drugs. Can I ask... were you guys in rounds that night or was she going to the bar herself.... this is the only place the premises may have failed, if they either served her directly after she was in such a state as to be a danger to herself or if they KNOWINGLY allowed someone else to be served for her. I know the bar you're on about (please stop calling it a night club), and genuinely those bouncers are really damn good at their jobs. As said above, I know the bar you're on about. I wouldn't classify the security as abandoning her, they ALWAYS have a guy on the door. Literally always. And I guarantee she was being watched by them. But they legally cannot keep an intoxicated person on the premises. In the interest of fairness, I will say, I work in the bar industry in Cork, though not in the bar you were in or any of the bars in the group that bar is in. We, barstaff, managers, and security alike, tend to take our jobs quite seriously because we know the harm which our product can cause when misused. But the guys in that bar are top notch. I get why you would think they effectively just abandoned her, but I disagree with you. I don't know any of them personally and don't particularly like that bar itself (the connecting bar is my spirit animal though), those security staff really are top notch. On the door on a saturday night there's 40+ years experience. They are genuinely good security staff though.
s8n wrote: » Whats Gat ?
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » She was in the front, i was in the back, ive no real idea how much suds she had.
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » and i dont recall her knocking back the gat like some of us.
Rumpy Pumpy wrote: » Has anyone else noticed a change in the type of bouncer used? For years it was the bald headed knuckle-dragger in a plastic jacket sort. That seems to have been replaced by the bearded McGregor lookalike sort of bouncer. Also a knuckle-dragger of course, with the emotional and cognitive intelligence of a newt.
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » So there we were last night in a late bar/nightclub establishment proximal to the GPO in Cork, on our Christmas night out. No one really drunk, except at the end of the night one of our group was rather suddenly in very poor shape, and i dont recall her knocking back the gat like some of us. (Maybe her drink might have been spiked, maybe she was just wasted, i dunno). Anyway, while we were minding her and formulating a plan to get her home, over come the bouncers, rather forcibly push us out of the way, lift her outside and deposit her on some kegs. And walk off. I was struck by how little they seemed to give a sh1t, and if we werent with her, (not that they knew who we were, and whether we were with her), she was in serious trouble. In fairness, a lot of patrons were asking if she was ok, which is appreciated. Notwithstanding the whole "responsible drinking" and personal reaponsibility for owns own actions, have such bars/clubs any duty of care or responsibility towards their customers. In 30 years of drinking, i never someone so wasted treated this badly. Thoughts?
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » Theres been a lot of sh1t3 in this thread, but in fairness, thats championship , feck no, thats Premiership stuff. Now were into detaining people, and Miranda rights - hordes of people being corralled. Statute book revisions. From an insider no less.
