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The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

The Cush

Announced this morning - http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/0923/645685-rte-radio-1-moves-from-longwave-transmission/

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/static/2014/0821/638554-stay-tuned/
http://static.rasset.ie/documents/radio1/rte-radio-1-staytuned.pdf

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Johnboy1951

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah here now, you can't expect the majority of the public to mess with linux sat boxes to listen to radio, that's just madness.

Dunno why you mention 'linux boxes' as if they were some sort of magic or impossible devices for an ordinary person to own and use.

In fact I did not have such a box in mind when I wrote that.

It's radio pure and simple either shut of LW 252 and that be the end of it if that's what RTE want or make it simple and practical for people to receive it. Yea sure there are a lot of us who can use internet and apps etc but a lot of people can't or don't want to.

You really see that as some reason for a decision?

Provide the signal in whatever form makes sense and if people want it they will arrange to receive it.

Just because someone claims a few aged people want to keep a LW service is no reason to comply.

burnsey1987

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah here now, you can't expect the majority of the public to mess with linux sat boxes to listen to radio, that's just madness.

It's radio pure and simple either shut of LW 252 and that be the end of it if that's what RTE want or make it simple and practical for people to receive it. Yea sure there are a lot of us who can use internet and apps etc but a lot of people can't or don't want to.

In all fairness that's hardly RTE's problem

Oscarziggy

I don't think people are going to buy yet another format of radio receiver in the form of DRM.

Regards

[Deleted User]

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Just because someone claims a few aged people want to keep a LW service is no reason to comply.

Aged People :eek:

Johnboy1951

Deleted User wrote: »

Aged People :eek:

You have a better suggestion?

elperello

burnsey1987 wrote: »

In all fairness that's hardly RTE's problem

It's not just an RTE problem.
These people who are resisting the closure of LW have been failed by this country for years.
They deserve better from us all.

burnsey1987

elperello wrote: »

It's not just an RTE problem.
These people who are resisting the closure of LW have been failed by this country for years.
They deserve better from us all.

Exactly, hence why I suggested making RTE R1 available on Freeview and DAB so that these people won't be cut off from home when LW finally closes

elperello

burnsey1987 wrote: »

Exactly, hence why I suggested making RTE R1 available on Freeview and DAB so that these people won't be cut off from home when LW finally closes

If they are happy with that it could be a solution.

[Deleted User]

We all agree that DAB is the only real solution and DAB+ radio can be got cheap.

The real question is what it will cost us ? and what would the real saving be over LW ?

Digital transmissions in the U.K tend to be of much higher quality also, DAB transmissions here are shockingly bad and coverage is poor so they need to improve FM reception in areas where FM is poor in Ireland.

kazoo106

64k mono? Quality?

[Deleted User]

64K ? depends whether it's AAC+ or mp3 , most Irish digital transmissions are 56-128 Kbps Mp3 be it DAB or Internet streaming. I think the highest quality internet stream I found from RTE was Lyric FM @128 Kbps Mp3.

I think all Irish broadcasts are on old DAB still too and not DAB+

BBC stream 320 Kbps AAC+.

LW listeners would be amazed listening to Joe Duffy with that kind of quality lol.

For talk radio 64 Kbps AAC+ is just about acceptable. Better than Lw/Mw for sure but the difference between a good signal LW/MW broadcast is you can't hear the horrid compression artefacts associated with high compressed streams.

I wish we could have BBC streams on DAB here too would be handy for the car I miss Am in my old car this one has DAB+/FM only.

[Deleted User]

UK DAB is rubbish, some stations are even mono only. A lot of people report that the sound quality is worse than FM. The 320k streams are online only.

[Deleted User]

You're joking, seriously ?

Why are these companies so hell bent on giving us this new modern technology that has 0 benefit to us ?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

You're joking, seriously ?

Why are these companies so hell bent on giving us this new modern technology that has 0 benefit to us ?

I don't know what the figures are for DAB+ but for Eureka 147, 256k is recommended for good audio quality. The only station that gets anywhere near that is BBC Radio 3 (192k IIRC) because its listenership would not tolerate anything less.

Digital technology, same with TV, can be used to improve quality but in reality it's exploited by the bean counters to cram more in and reduce quality.

[Deleted User]

DAB offers more place to throw the ever increasing amount of crap stations to play even more crap pop music. FM bands are crowded which are also full of crap.

So I suppose in the end LW listeners wouldn't be too put off with DAB quality.

[Deleted User]

Karsini wrote: »

I don't know what the figures are for DAB+ but for Eureka 147, 256k is recommended for good audio quality. The only station that gets anywhere near that is BBC Radio 3 (192k IIRC) because its listenership would not tolerate anything less.

Digital technology, same with TV, can be used to improve quality but in reality it's exploited by the bean counters to cram more in and reduce quality.

I'm nearly sure all of BBC's internet streams are 320 Kbps AAC+, they Geo block the high bitrate streams and give everyone else 128 kbps streams lol, hilarious.

I could live with 256 Kbps AAC+

People should listen to Radio Romania international on DRM, amazing listening to such quality on shortwave, better than our DAB streams ! But depends whether they use the total bandwidth for 2 streams or 1.

marno21

Standard DAB is mp2, not mp3. Even less quality than mp3 at an equivalent bitrate.

kazoo106

The highest bitrate on UK DAB is BBC Radio 3 - and I think that's 192k MP2

Don't confuse DAB with Internet streaming

Most of the crap on UK DAB is in 64k mono - no AAC - 1990's MP2 tech and it sounds HORRIBLE

Johnboy1951

Deleted User wrote: »

We all agree that DAB is the only real solution and DAB+ radio can be got cheap.

The real question is what it will cost us ? and what would the real saving be over LW ?

Digital transmissions in the U.K tend to be of much higher quality also, DAB transmissions here are shockingly bad and coverage is poor so they need to improve FM reception in areas where FM is poor in Ireland.

Solution for what problem?

To provide a service to some people in the UK who refuse to adopt alternate means of receiving the radio channels?
If the radio channels mean much to them they will adapt.

Schorpio

Deleted User wrote: »

I think all Irish broadcasts are on old DAB still too and not DAB+.

Just to pick this up - that's not true. Radio 1 and 2fm are available on both DAB and DAB+.

I know from flicking between the two that the '+' streams sound better to my ears, but I don't know what the bitrates are.

Also, from living in the UK, I can attest that the quality of the DAB for some stations is pretty rubbish - however, not to the point where I could noticeably hear any compression artifacts. The trade off it choice - with DAB in the UK you get MUCH more, with national stations on national DAB, some local variants on a regional multiplex, and the traditional town/county stations staying on FM.

The Cush

Schorpio wrote: »

Just to pick this up - that's not true. Radio 1 and 2fm are available on both DAB and DAB+.

I know from flicking between the two that the '+' streams sound better to my ears, but I don't know what the bitrates are.

48 (HE-AAC v2) and 64 kbps (HE-AAC v1) respectively, and I agree with you about the audio quality, perfectly OK to my ears too.

Comparing it to the German national DAB+ mux, most services are running at between 48 and 72 kbps with the 3 of the national services at 104 and 112 kbps, all HE-AAC v1.

Looking at the 3 UK national muxes, they are mostly running at 64-80 kbps MP2.

To determine the audio quality at low bitrates, listening tests were performed by the EBU (European Broadcasting Union) in 2003. For stereophonic audio, the listening tests show that

at an audio bit rate of 48 kbps, HE-AAC offers good to excellent quality

at an audio bit rate of 64 kbps it offers excellent quality

At the time of these tests, HE-AAC v2 was not yet available, but it can safely be assumed that its performance will be similar to or even better than that of HE-AAC.

[Deleted User]

kazoo106 wrote: »

The highest bitrate on UK DAB is BBC Radio 3 - and I think that's 192k MP2

Don't confuse DAB with Internet streaming

Most of the crap on UK DAB is in 64k mono - no AAC - 1990's MP2 tech and it sounds HORRIBLE

Wow that really is shocking !

[Deleted User]

I read earlier where a poster suggested Lw/Mw is dead, see my Web SDR screenshot below, this couldn't be further from the truth. As some stations close others open quickly as FM bands are crowded some stations flock to MW, MW is also crowded and far, far from dead.

vR2BEY2.jpg?1

Oscarziggy

Deleted User wrote: »

64K ? depends whether it's AAC+ or mp3 , most Irish digital transmissions are 56-128 Kbps Mp3 be it DAB or Internet streaming. I think the highest quality internet stream I found from RTE was Lyric FM @128 Kbps Mp3.

I think all Irish broadcasts are on old DAB still too and not DAB+

BBC stream 320 Kbps AAC+.

LW listeners would be amazed listening to Joe Duffy with that kind of quality lol.

For talk radio 64 Kbps AAC+ is just about acceptable. Better than Lw/Mw for sure but the difference between a good signal LW/MW broadcast is you can't hear the horrid compression artefacts associated with high compressed streams.

I wish we could have BBC streams on DAB here too would be handy for the car I miss Am in my old car this one has DAB+/FM only.

Mad_Lad -- that was a bad move - how are you going to listen to Manx Radio /Radio Caroline North at the week end if you are out and about with no access to 1368khz??
I'd look for a decent car with a proper radio in it --
Regards

[Deleted User]

The I3 has AM mode software locked because BMW felt the Electric powertrain was interfering with AM reception, I find this puzzling because AM reception in the Nissan Leaf EV was simply brilliant.

I can hack it when I get around to it. BMW are looking into ways to shield the electrics to reduce interference if it exists at all. I bet BMW thought that anyone who buys such a car would not be interested in AM but there was a lot of backlash against this particularly in the USA where AM will be alive for decades to come but even in Europe they fell under criticism for removing AM from the i3.

Another attempt at trying to force the public down a road they do not intend or never intended travelling, ( pun intended )

Oscarziggy

Another reason not to look into buying an electric car -- I'll run my diesel into the ground .
Interesting read for you here if you are into geek coding -http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/07/09/why-you-cant-get-am-radio-in-your-bmw-i3/

Anyway back to topic -- sorry.
Regards

[Deleted User]

Na it's not difficult to enable Am I just need some time to do it, possibly over Christmas.

Electrics are great, I used to be a die hard TDI fan but never again, the I3 is simply amazing !!! Come over and have a chat in the EV section of the motors forum.

Never Say Never Again

I remember years ago, a couple of hours a day of rte radio 1 was carried on shortwave in north america, this service was axed during rte cutbacks in the early 00s but there was zero fuss at the time despite all the irish ex pats in the usa and this being long before internet listening was in any way mainstream.

Hotblack Desiato

A couple of hours a day on shortwave?

There were probably more radio buffs listening to it just because they could, than Irish citizens or diaspora listening to it because they wanted to hear the content.

[Deleted User]

You'd be surprised at the reasons some people listen to shortwave, you can hear topics, discussions that are interesting that appeal to a lot more than the targeted audiences. Not everything is available on the internet.

Scanning mw/sw you can hear interesting stuff rather than the daunting task of scanning thousands of internet stations which would make it far less likely to find something you want/like.